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Kawhi traded to Toronto

The big losers are really philly and Boston... feel like both could beat this package easily but I might be undervaluing DeRozan.

If I was the spurs I would have tried to get Covington Saric and that Miami pick while sending out Pau... Boston would have been more tricky.

I think the Lakers know he is coming there next season and smartly retained their young dudes. I don’t think Kawhi is as flexible as PG was.
 
On a side note... I hope DeMar does well. Seems like a great dude and I have a soft spot for guys that cape for small (or less desirable in this case) NBA markets. Sucks they told him last week that he won't be traded... then traded him... but I'm not sure what a team exec is supposed to say.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
On a side note... I hope DeMar does well. Seems like a great dude and I have a soft spot for guys that cape for small (or less desirable in this case) NBA markets. Sucks they told him last week that he won't be traded... then traded him... but I'm not sure what a team exec is supposed to say.
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Pops will figure out how to use him.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
New players and roster turnover doesn’t mean they improved.

I think the continuity and internal growth we have should help us the first half of the year. Houston took a step back and GS may be a year away from losing KD (or Klay or Green). Our window is peaking open and I love how we approached the offseason. If someone becomes available we have expiring contracts, 1sts, and interesting young guys (Exum, Allen) to try and make something work.

I think we will watch what happens with Tobias Harris and Otto Porter to start the season... those are guys that could be available this season on the cheap if their teams struggle. I could also see the Jimmy Butler thing not working out and then moving him.

Patience will pay... if the Rubio, Rudy, Favs lineup continued to suck like it did to start the season I would have said it was time to move on... they figured it out... it’s worth another year of evaluation.
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You're right. If Rubio's consistent this year, Utah is solid. Continue to develop Allen, Niang, Mitchell, Exum, and Favors and keep chugging. Lindsey's done very well with his time at the helm.
 
TheStormofWar said:
Pops will figure out how to use him.
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He might... but Aldridge took some time to fall in line. I think if you have too many non-shooters, and non-defenders there it can fall apart. Pop is great, but he may have lost his fastball in part due to some of the stuff he had to endure personally. I think this is the fade into the sunset year for him. Manu and him walk away heads held high after this season.

Demar isn't like Carmelo, but he doesn't provide a ton of value off the ball... same thing with Aldridge. Who knows I guess.
 
TheStormofWar said:
You're right. If Rubio's consistent this year, Utah is solid. Continue to develop Allen, Niang, Mitchell, Exum, and Favors and keep chugging. Lindsey's done very well with his time at the helm.
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That and you could just see DM turn the corner second half and just figure out how to win. The team as a whole knows how to win. Think about training camp last year compared to this year... everyone outside of basically Rudy were in a new role... Ricky with a new system and teammates, DM a rook, Rodney thinking he's a primary scorer, Joe's role is similar but asked to take on more ball handling responsibilities... So many new faces.

This year it will be adjustments and getting Allen up to speed. Figuring out Exum. Niang knows his **** already because he was in the system. Everyone on the team was looking at him on both sides of the floor during summer league. He was directing everybody. If he has to play I think he will be easy to integrate.
 
This is definitely a move to make Pop happy/content.

It punishes Kawhi and brings back a player that can still make them relevant while Pop only has a few years left in him.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Good move by both teams.

The East is wide open to get to the finals this year. Toronto can make a run at it. Its a big swing but Leonard is probably the best player in the East now. You never know, they might convince him to stay. It's a lot of money to give up to leave. Look so Paul George, he was 100% going to the Lakers.
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This
 
this should put to bed the idea that players owe any loyalty to a franchise beyond being professional. DeDe did everything he could to help Toronto, and they rolled the dice after telling him he wouldn’t be traded. I half apologize to Gordo Heartburn for heading to Boston. Loyalty goes both ways.

This makes the Jazz look even better. Lots of people wanted the Jazz to trade or not re-sign Favors and Exum, but they showed yet again that they take care of their people.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Sucks they told him last week that he won't be traded... then traded him... but I'm not sure what a team exec is supposed to say.
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Seeing as they'd been working on the trade for a few weeks now, why not tell him he's being traded? Or at the very least say something neutral like "Who knows what the future holds." Dude has been there for 9 years, was the face of the franchise, loves the city, has never complained about stuff. Why couldn't you tell him you were working on trading him?
 
campaignist said:
this should put to bed the idea that players owe any loyalty to a franchise beyond being professional. DeDe did everything he could to help Toronto, and they rolled the dice after telling him he wouldn’t be traded. I half apologize to Gordo Heartburn for heading to Boston. Loyalty goes both ways.

This makes the Jazz look even better. Lots of people wanted the Jazz to trade or not re-sign Favors and Exum, but they showed yet again that they take care of their people.
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Yes, buuuuut I think the way you leave or trade a guy matters too. Gordo and how he left was terrible.... Raps telling DeRozan he won't be traded then trading him is terrible. I have no issue with either of those things happening... if they go about it the right way, but its tough to be transparent when things are in flux.

I do think we can look people in the eye and say "we will take care of you and honor what we say" and Boston can't really do that... Clips can't really do that (with the Blake stuff)... I think turning your back on someone that has been loyal to you is still kind of frowned upon.

I won't ever kill a team for trading a guy or a player for leaving... just do right by the people who did right to you.
 
JimLes said:
Seeing as they'd been working on the trade for a few weeks now, why not tell him he's being traded? Or at the very least say something neutral like "Who knows what the future holds." Dude has been there for 9 years, was the face of the franchise, loves the city, has never complained about stuff. Why couldn't you tell him you were working on trading him?
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Yeah, but these things get talked about all the time. They should be straight and say... look your name has come up we aren't actively shopping you, but there are some talks on-going and you could be moved. The issue is the deal falls apart and now you have to make nice again.

I don't know how you do it the right way, but agree you don't tell him he is not being traded... then trade him a week later.
 
They may have also said something like "anyone can be traded, but we don't think you will be" and that could be interpreted as "you will not be traded".

Like if I tell my kids we might go to Chuck E. Cheese they will interpret that as we are going to Chuck E Cheese... even though its still being evaluated.

Demar did deserve better.
 
campaignist said:
this should put to bed the idea that players owe any loyalty to a franchise beyond being professional. DeDe did everything he could to help Toronto, and they rolled the dice after telling him he wouldn’t be traded. I half apologize to Gordo Heartburn for heading to Boston. Loyalty goes both ways.

This makes the Jazz look even better. Lots of people wanted the Jazz to trade or not re-sign Favors and Exum, but they showed yet again that they take care of their people.
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Favors was taken care of for a couple of reasons. Stat wise, is he worth 18 Mil a year? Probably not. What makes him worth that, in addition to what he does on the court is that he took the 12Mil deal early on instead of fighting for the most he could get. Then he worked his butt off, even with injuries. Then he sacrificed on court individual production for the good of the team. He still adds a lot to the team with what he can do, but I think he's also a good person to have in the locker room and behind the scenes. Part of his pay this year was due to loyalty. It's hard to put a price on it. I think players also get paid for their loyalty in local endorsements and in other ways. It's not all salary.

GH did the opposite it seems. He tried to get as much cash as he could, and because of that the team allowed him to find it on the open market as a RFA. He took offense to them allowing him to find as much as the market would allow for him, and matching it. GH, then pretended to be something he was not and although he worked on his game, it was all for him and his own touches after that. He put on a mask, and did his job while waiting to leave. Even his closest teammates did not seem to know the extent to which he wanted out. Sure he got paid from Boston, as he wanted.

It's a tale of two approaches, and after it's all said and done I'm glad it worked out the way it did. I'd rather have a real and honest teammate in Favs here with us now. It's nice to take a break from the fake. I'm very, very appreciative of what the FO has set up with this team. Last year was a joy to see. I love the comraderie, and cohesiveness. I'm a little bummed we didn't keep the Swede, but I guess we can't have it all.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Like if I tell my kids we might go to Chuck E. Cheese they will interpret that as we are going to Chuck E Cheese... even though its still being evaluated.
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My mum, as amazing as she is, would say "maybe" when she meant "no" because she wanted us to stop bothering her. My dad would answer "maybe" when he meant yes, because of the small chance that some unforeseen thing would happen and he could not deliver on his promise. I love both my parents very much, but I can't say that I didn't appreciate my dad's approach more.
 
MVP said:
You know nothing about Raptors. Casey sucked - he was 0-10 vs Cavs in his last 10 playoff games vs them, he was absolute disaster as the playoff coach and needed to be sacked. DeRozan while loyal and hard worker was not the player to take team on his back during playoffs. If Leonard is healthy and will play with 100% effort - Raptors are winning the East, he is an All Star and may be in MVP discussion. Winning cures everything. Raptors will be in position to offer 50 mil more on his next contract than if he would go to any other team. Not sure Lakers with ageing Lebron will be such an attractive option.
I would give it a year and see how this unfolds, in anyway you gotta give it to Masai, dude has huge balls to pull trade like that.
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Fair enough. I'll admit I know very little about the Raptors. I just saw DeMarre Carroll's tweet about when he thinks Raptors he thinks DeRozan (Carroll said he deserves a statue.) Seems kinda sad to give up on the face of your franchise when he just barely signed long term with the team after being an unrestricted free agent. But I guess that kind of thinking is outdated by now.

My initial take on the trade was that Toronto messed up, but after seeing a few different opinions I'm not so sure I was right. It's a bold move for Toronto (after several years of disappointment in the playoffs) I guess that should be applauded.

I'm not super familiar with the Toronto market either, but I'm pretty sure being in LA would make it easy for Kawhi to find a way to make up that $50 million. ESPN the Magazine did a feature on Kevin Durant and all the negotiations he's closer to because he lives in the Bay Area.
 
JFFR said:
I'm not super familiar with the Toronto market either, but I'm pretty sure being in LA would make it easy for Kawhi to find a way to make up that $50 million. ESPN the Magazine did a feature on Kevin Durant and all the negotiations he's closer to because he lives in the Bay Area.
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No question he can make it up in endorsements and other deals in CA. But at the end of the day you want to win and play in Finals. Reaching finals from the East is much easier vs doing it in the West ( GSW is here for another 2 years at least). He would be the best Toronto player ever - a legend, perennial All star for years to come so that could be a selling feature as well.
On the other hand we do not know Kawhi that much. Maybe he is already happy with what he accomplished and just wants to play based on geography and does not care about winning or money anymore. We will see.
 
campaignist said:
this should put to bed the idea that players owe any loyalty to a franchise beyond being professional. DeDe did everything he could to help Toronto, and they rolled the dice after telling him he wouldn’t be traded. I half apologize to Gordo Heartburn for heading to Boston. Loyalty goes both ways.
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On the other hand, the trade only happened because of Kawhi being a malcontent. SA would have been loyal and then Toronto would have too.
 
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