https://www.yahoo.com/news/mom-says-9-old-killed-133439707.html

[fishonjazz]

Thoughts?

 

[fishonjazz]

Sorry about the poor thread title.

Basically a 9 year old boy came out to his mom that he is gay and wants to wear girls clothes now.
Then he came out to his schoolmates at school, was apparently bullied, then killed himself.

 

[fishonjazz]

So sad. Hard to have to high of expectations on 9 year olds to handle something like this properly and with maturity.
What should the parents have told their son when he told them he was gay and wanted to wear girls clothes now? What should they have told the school? What could they have done better?
Im curious as to how the boy killed himself as well. That could say something about the household he was living in.

 

[Gameface]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mom-says-9-old-killed-133439707.html

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Making undesirables want to die?

I can’t think of a single thing that is more American.

 

[JazzGal]

So this was in Denver. I would have thought that would be a more tolerant area than many, and that perhaps children there were less judgmental. Guess not. Children telling another child that he should kill himself is just to horrible to contemplate. And a 9-year-old child should not have to feel so hopeless that they see no other way out. Homo sapiens suck.

 

[Siro]

So this was in Denver. I would have thought that would be a more tolerant area than many, and that perhaps children there were less judgmental. Guess not. Children telling another child that he should kill himself is just to horrible to contemplate. And a 9-year-old child should not have to feel so hopeless that they see no other way out. Homo sapiens suck.

Children are in general very cruel.

 

[fishonjazz]

So this was in Denver. I would have thought that would be a more tolerant area than many, and that perhaps children there were less judgmental. Guess not. Children telling another child that he should kill himself is just to horrible to contemplate. And a 9-year-old child should not have to feel so hopeless that they see no other way out. Homo sapiens suck.

I wonder if as a parent it would be a good idea to tell the son to just stay in the closet a while longer (not in those words of course.... maybe something like "lets keep this our little secret for now" or something) until his peers are more mature. That sounds horrible to say though. I just dont expect much from 9 year olds and i dont think they have enough experience in life yet to properly understand empathy and emotion and things of that nature. Plus, since the kid was only 9 years old maybe he doesn't even really know anything about his own sexuality yet and he is just feeling some kind of societal influence. Puberty hasn't even typically started at 9 years old right? If the kid "stays in the closet" for a few more years then maybe later on his development he decides he is straight, or bi, or whatever.

Just a tough and crappy situation all around.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

So this was in Denver. I would have thought that would be a more tolerant area than many, and that perhaps children there were less judgmental. Guess not. Children telling another child that he should kill himself is just to horrible to contemplate. And a 9-year-old child should not have to feel so hopeless that they see no other way out. Homo sapiens suck.

Where are you seeing the details on this story? Other kids told this kid to kill himself and so he did? Why? How?

If I had a son who told me he wanted to dress as a girl I would seek professional help. I know a woman who used to be a man. She says that she thought the change would make her feel better, but it has done the opposite. She says she wishes she could go back to her life before. Sadly, she is very obsessed with looks, and like anybody, she is getting older and not looking as fresh as she used to. She desperately wants to look like a desirable woman. That's going to take some serious work. I'm not really sure it is possible. It's a very sad situation.

In a way these transgender issues are the ultimate in first world problems. Are there any examples of this sort of problem occurring in non-affluent societies? Are there any examples of this sort of thing playing out positively in any societies? It's devastating that a child would take their own life as a result.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I wonder if as a parent it would be a good idea to tell the son to just stay in the closet a while longer (not in those words of course.... maybe something like "lets keep this our little secret for now" or something) until his peers are more mature. That sounds horrible to say though. I just dont expect much from 9 year olds and i dont think they have enough experience in life yet to properly understand empathy and emotion and things of that nature. Plus, since the kid was only 9 years old maybe he doesn't even really know anything about his own sexuality yet and he is just feeling some kind of societal influence. Puberty hasn't even typically started at 9 years old right? If the kid "stays in the closet" for a few more years then maybe later on his development he decides he is straight, or bi, or whatever.

Just a tough and crappy situation all around.

I heard a story about a young child who was experiencing these same sorts of emotions. Counseling revealed that in that particular case, the genesis of the child's feelings was that he had a little sister who was now getting all the attention that he used to, and he felt like wearing dresses would help him to get it back.

If it were my child, I would be extremely cautious about making a gender change.

 

[Archie Moses]

If there is ever one thing you can count on, it's humans being evil to eachother.

 

[Gameface]

The details are pretty sparse. Hard to really say what could or should have been done here. So many unanswered questions.

Many children are bullied ruthlessly for all sorts of different reasons. Four days of bullying shouldn't result in a 9 year old committing suicide.

 

[Red]

In a way these transgender issues are the ultimate in first world problems. Are there any examples of this sort of problem occurring in non-affluent societies? Are there any examples of this sort of thing playing out positively in any societies? It's devastating that a child would take their own life as a result.

Well, I'm no authority, but I thought I recalled something regarding high tolerance in Native American societies, and came across this, FWIW....

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/oct/11/two-spirit-people-north-america

https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/Native-American-Berdache-Tradition

 

[JazzGal]

Where are you seeing the details on this story? Other kids told this kid to kill himself and so he did? Why? How?

I had read the story yesterday on other sites. Here's one:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/2...coming-out-gay-bullied-by-classmates-mom.html

Pierce told the Denver Post she believed bullying played a part in her son’s death.

"My child died because of bullying. My baby killed himself," Pierce said.

She said her son told her daughter that his classmates told him to take his own life.

 

[fishonjazz]

I heard a story about a young child who was experiencing these same sorts of emotions. Counseling revealed that in that particular case, the genesis of the child's feelings was that he had a little sister who was now getting all the attention that he used to, and he felt like wearing dresses would help him to get it back.

If it were my child, I would be extremely cautious about making a gender change.

Yep it’s hard to say why a 9 year old thinks he is gay.
When I was that age I was perving out to black and white photos of women in bras in the back of the sears catalog, my friends dads playboy magazines, late night tabloid news shows, any pictures of hot females in my moms red book magazines and basically anything with boobs and a vagina. So I had a pretty clear idea that I was straight. Yet I don’t think I even recognized that gay people existed back then.

I also wanted to be Mr T (who I thought was the coolest ************* alive), Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, and magic Johnson and if it was normal to identify as other races back then (like its normal to be gay now) then maybe I would have considered myself to be black.

This kid might have thought he was gay because males made him feel that horny feeling that I felt when I looked at the female figure when I was that age. Maybe he really was in fact gay.

Or maybe he just wanted attention like the example you provided. Maybe he had a favorite celebrity or you tube personality or something who was gay and the kid wanted to be like that person that he idolized and so he said he was gay in attempt to be more like that person.
Or any other reason.

Either way if he were my kids I would have many questions for him to try to understand why he felt he was gay and then i would maybe try to make him understand that not everyone would be as excepting as I am (I would totally except my child for being gay, no doubt about it) about his announcement and explain some of the issues that could arise from him telling his classmates.
Maybe his parents did the same. This story is missing lots of info. (Like I said before I would like to know how he died. Did his parents allow him access to a gun? Did they not supervise him enough to allow him the time to do a more elaborate and time consuming method of suicide?)

 

[JazzGal]

If I had a 9-year-old son who said he was gay and wanted to dress "more girly," I would probably encourage him not to make announcements about it to the world right away. I would put him in counseling, because I'd want to make sure my child could have the most support possible and that I could better understand his feelings and motivations. I would go forward in baby steps, like first allowing him to grow his hair longer, find colors and styles in clothing that would feel more feminine to him, let him choose more "feminine" toys if he preferred, etc. And I would talk to him all the time to make sure I knew what he was thinking and feeling, and I would do all I could to make him feel loved and accepted, because he is likely to have some tough times ahead. At least, this is what I hope I would do.

I would certainly take it seriously, because I think a 9-year-old can understand they are gay. I had crushes on male classmates from the time I was 5, and I never had crushes on female classmates. Obviously I didn't think of these guys in sexual terms (other than a kiss), but I understood I liked boys. Still, I can also see that a 9-year-old could be confused about it as well, depending on their life experiences.

In this particular case, it is hard to believe that a child that seemed so confident in his decision could be brought to suicide in just four days, so there are likely other factors than just bullying. It's incredibly sad and tragic for everyone who loved him.

 

[LogGrad98]

If I had a 9-year-old son who said he was gay and wanted to dress "more girly," I would probably encourage him not to make announcements about it to the world right away. I would put him in counseling, because I'd want to make sure my child could have the most support possible and that I could better understand his feelings and motivations. I would go forward in baby steps, like first allowing him to grow his hair longer, find colors and styles in clothing that would feel more feminine to him, let him choose more "feminine" toys if he preferred, etc. And I would talk to him all the time to make sure I knew what he was thinking and feeling, and I would do all I could to make him feel loved and accepted, because he is likely to have some tough times ahead. At least, this is what I hope I would do.

I would certainly take it seriously, because I think a 9-year-old can understand they are gay. I had crushes on male classmates from the time I was 5, and I never had crushes on female classmates. Obviously I didn't think of these guys in sexual terms (other than a kiss), but I understood I liked boys. Still, I can also see that a 9-year-old could be confused about it as well, depending on their life experiences.

In this particular case, it is hard to believe that a child that seemed so confident in his decision could be brought to suicide in just four days, so there are likely other factors than just bullying. It's incredibly sad and tragic for everyone who loved him.

The big question is did you have crushes because you, biologically at the age of 5, had feelings of attraction toward a male, or was it because socially it was expected, and the boys were deemed socially attractive, and so the crush followed?

 

[JazzGal]

The big question is did you have crushes because you, biologically at the age of 5, had feelings of attraction toward a male, or was it because socially it was expected, and the boys were deemed socially attractive, and so the crush followed?

I suppose that is impossible to tell, but I actually thought there was something wrong with me for having these crushes because I wasn't old enough (I was taught that you didn't date until 16, so I think I assumed I wasn't supposed to "like" boys in that way until then). I didn't tell anyone about them, not even the boys themselves. I instead treated them less than kindly on occasion. But yeah, at that time I was completely unaware that girls could have crushes on girls - not talked about in the 60s.

 

[LogGrad98]

I suppose that is impossible to tell, but I actually thought there was something wrong with me for having these crushes because I wasn't old enough (I was taught that you didn't date until 16, so I think I assumed I wasn't supposed to "like" boys in that way until then). I didn't tell anyone about them, not even the boys themselves. I instead treated them less than kindly on occasion. But yeah, at that time I was completely unaware that girls could have crushes on girls - not talked about in the 60s.

It wasn't talked about in the 70's or 80's really either, at least not at that age. It isn't until very recently that the subject of homosexuality even entered the sphere of a pre-pubescent child, unless they had first-hand experience with it. I first learned about homosexuality really when I was about 12, and there was a kid in our ward that was outed as gay (not sure how the info came to be known, tbh) so they, of course, had a discussion with the other kids about what it means and how terrible it is. Of course we knew the words associated with it at that age ("gay", "******", "***", "homo", etc.), but few of us ever considered homosexuality to be a real thing, so to speak, aside from anecdotes passed around jr. high and elementary school playgrounds.

I think social pressure can make this kind of thing confusing at these young ages. Who knows the motivation when there really is likely zero biological imperative in this regard, and it is most likely driven by social or familial pressures that likely cannot be known without therapy of some kind.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Yep it’s hard to say why a 9 year old thinks he is gay.
When I was that age I was perving out to black and white photos of women in bras in the back of the sears catalog, my friends dads playboy magazines, late night tabloid news shows, any pictures of hot females in my moms red book magazines and basically anything with boobs and a vagina. So I had a pretty clear idea that I was straight. Yet I don’t think I even recognized that gay people existed back then.

I also wanted to be Mr T (who I thought was the coolest ************* alive), Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, and magic Johnson and if it was normal to identify as other races back then (like its normal to be gay now) then maybe I would have considered myself to be black.

This kid might have thought he was gay because males made him feel that horny feeling that I felt when I looked at the female figure when I was that age. Maybe he really was in fact gay.

Or maybe he just wanted attention like the example you provided. Maybe he had a favorite celebrity or you tube personality or something who was gay and the kid wanted to be like that person that he idolized and so he said he was gay in attempt to be more like that person.
Or any other reason.

Either way if he were my kids I would have many questions for him to try to understand why he felt he was gay and then i would maybe try to make him understand that not everyone would be as excepting as I am (I would totally except my child for being gay, no doubt about it) about his announcement and explain some of the issues that could arise from him telling his classmates.
Maybe his parents did the same. This story is missing lots of info. (Like I said before I would like to know how he died. Did his parents allow him access to a gun? Did they not supervise him enough to allow him the time to do a more elaborate and time consuming method of suicide?)

Good post. I relate to most of this, though I'm pretty sure I wasn't nearly so pervy when I was 9. Lol.