Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, why do you think it's dangerous? I get that it's not super accurate, but then neither is the Grand Old Party, or even Republicanism these days.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Wow! 99% of Trump voters hate anybody different than them!
What a load of divisive ********.
What a load of divisive ********.
I knew a lot of reasonable people who voted for Trump because and pretty much only because the choice was between Hillary Clinton and Trump.
Trump and his vocal supporters continue to try to put out the Hillary Clinton boogeyman, but she's not running anymore, she's not in any official political position anymore. That card has been played. The 20+ years of vilification paid off and got the Republicans into the White House. Hopefully it was worth it to them because they aren't going to have another Hillary Clinton to scare people with anymore. Without Clinton Trump would never have been elected.
Trump and his vocal supporters continue to try to put out the Hillary Clinton boogeyman, but she's not running anymore, she's not in any official political position anymore. That card has been played. The 20+ years of vilification paid off and got the Republicans into the White House. Hopefully it was worth it to them because they aren't going to have another Hillary Clinton to scare people with anymore. Without Clinton Trump would never have been elected.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Welfare programs are not socialism. When you call yourself a Democratic Socialist you are advocating for State Socialism, bad idea. Democratic or not state socialism is inherently illiberal and doomed to failure(for the citizen).
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
When you resort to my comment being sexist, it means you don't get it.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Maybe... just maybe... it's not because she's a woman but a socialist?
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
She is one of those things
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
*democratic
Zombie
Well-Known Member
That doesn't even makes sense even if she was a socialist. Nothing about socialism says you have to be poor.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Still No
To my knowledge she has yet to advocate for anything that would rise to the level of socialist reforms.
BTW I personally have nothing against socialism just state socialism. Our country has a long history of suppressing socialist institutions and propping up capitalist ones. People died for credit unions and they still are limited by law for the sole purpose of protecting the profits of banks.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I agree that all those calling themselves Democratic Socialists are advocating for State Socialism. The DSA is certainly not an organization I would describe that way. Maybe it would be more accurate for them to call themselves the Social Democratic Party. But it just seems like a battle of semantics. Particularly in the US where anything to the left of Mussolini gets branded socialism by those on the right. At a certain point, you just gotta stop arguing semantics, and just say ok, sure you want to call universal Healthcare socialism, fine. We'll ll take that and run with it, and make it popular anyway.
Jonah
Well-Known Member
Bernie calls himself of socialist to call attention to himself and differentiate his politics from Democrats and the neoliberals that have dominated that party for several generations. He’s really a Social Democrat or New Deal Democrat who wants to reform capitalism to save it from itself. Democratic Socialists are still further to the left and want to ultimately end capitalism in favor of a state run economy focused on worker rights and worker ownership of the means of production.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Semantics are important. It's how you transform a party of tradesmen who oppose slavery largely on the grounds that it distorts the free market and the value of their labor into the party of the capitalist elite. You associate capitalism with their Ideals until they can no longer tell the difference. Likewise accepting the label of Democratic Socialist will only normalize some really bad ideas in our political discourse, namely state socialism.
Further Democrats do better when they avoid the term anyway. That's why Medicare for all polls better than national health care(pretty much the same damn thing). The GOP has successfully branded national healthcare as socialist and un American, something that they would be hard pressed to accomplish with medicare.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
I would agree except for that American politics is in absolutely no danger of trending toward state socialism and the GOP effort to demonize universal Healthcare as socialism has fallen flat and is more popular amongst the electorate than ever before.
I don't want to support universal health care (single payer) but I do. The reason I do is because our health insurance system is so completely and utterly ****ed up.
Every damn time I need to use my health insurance it's like the people doing the billing have to figure **** out like it's the first time they've ever billed anyone ever and there's like quantum physics level math involved or something. So that's the fun on the billing side, then there's the fun when your insurer acts like you don't actually have insurance, at least not for the thing you just used it for, aka basic health care services. It's like everyone is making this **** hard on purpose, and I do think they make it hard on purpose.
Not only the stupidity involved in how confused everyone who does this **** for a living seems to get every time you use your insurance, but the opaque nature of what **** is going to cost. My wife needed an MRI recently. They told her it would cost about $600 out of pocket. So they were really close, it actually cost just shy of $1000 out of pocket. When she called to question it they were like "well we don't know exactly what you'll need until you come in." What? She needed a ****ing MRI, she has Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance, where was the mystery?
Anyway, rant over. I want a system that doesn't take 10 people to figure out how to bill and pay for services that one doctor gives to one patient.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
I would say that we are already managing the market to benefit the elite. The last thing I want is for the government to be given a mandate to actively manage and interfere in the market more. I think Democratic Socialism will gift them that. In the long run we could end up with something much more extreme.
No it's not(universal healthcare). Democrats have been urged by top leadership to avoid that term. Cuz the GOP successfully painted the effort as a Marxist takeover of the US. "Medicare for All" is what people want.
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♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Lol
Reduce chapter 11 Bankruptcy by an *** ton
Reduce the amount we all pay
Nope cuz some people will pay more than others(even though it is still cheaper for them too)
Srsly noone is forced to apply for medicare and yet they still do despite IRMAA, cuz it is still cheaper.
What an awful argumemt