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Supreme Court Justice Kennedy to Retire

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♪alt13 said:
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What does it say about this country that this is the state of our discourse? That Kavanaugh even stands any chance of being made one of the most powerful figures in the American government, with control over life and liberty? That a man like this is even a judge? He went before the United States Senate and showed total contempt for his vow to tell the truth. He attempted to portray a highly esteemed doctor as a crazy person, by consistently misrepresenting the evidence. He treated the public like we were idiots, like we wouldn’t notice as he pretended he was ralphing during Beach Week from too many jalapeños, as he feigned ignorance about sex slang, as he misread his own meticulously-kept 1982 summer calendar, as he replied to questions about his drinking habits by talking about church, as he suggested there are no alcoholics at Yale, as he denied knowing who “Bart O’Kavanaugh” could possibly be based on, as he declared things refuted that weren’t actually refuted, as he claimed witnesses said things they didn’t say, as he failed to explain why nearly a dozen Yale classmates said he drank heavily, as he invented an imaginary drinking game to avoid admitting he had the mind of a sports jock in high school, as he said Ford had only accused him last week, as he responded to his roommate’s eyewitness statement with an incoherent story about furniture, as he pretended Bethesda wasn’t 5 miles wide, as he insisted Renate should be flattered by the ditty about how easy she was, as he declared that distinguished federal judges don’t commit sexual misconduct even though he had clerked for exactly such a judge.

And what does it say about us, and our political system, that he might well get away with it?
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Says it works fine, serves the interests of the rich and powerful, insulates them from the consequences of their actions, protects the corrupt and dishonest. So basically functions as almost any well established social order has in the last 1000 years.
 
Zombie said:
I'm a big fan of Current Affairs and Nathan J Robinson in particular.
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It was an excellent analysis. And as much as I appreciate the fact that Sen. Whitehouse's focus on the yearbook entries led to answers by Kavanaugh that are not believable, it is right that Robinson somewhat takes Whitehouse to task for not probing further about the "devil's triangle" entry, and Kavanaugh's claim that it was "a drinking game". Just keep asking Kavanaugh to explain in detail how this game is played. Whitehouse did not do that to anywhere near a sufficient degree.

There was the opportunity for Kavanaugh to describe what is obviously a well known reference to a threesome involving two men and a woman as instead a drinking game. I would have been very interested to hear how Kavanaugh would have described a drinking game that does not exist. That would seem to be "go for the jugular vein" territory, and instead Whitehouse just let it go and did not ask Kavanaugh to describe this so-called drinking game in detail. Too bad. Opportunity to hear an elaborately spun lie, perhaps, was lost.

Well developed analysis. Thanks for posting it.
 
Zombie said:
Feinstein’s actions regarding Ford's allegations have been at Ford's direction. How many times must this be pointed out to you?
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And you know that how? None of us know exactly what went on, but I believe the evidence suggests it played out a lot more closely to what I'm suggesting than what you are. What we do know is that:
1) Ford wrote a letter to Weinstein describing her accusation and asking to remain confidential.
2) Weinstein helped Ford to find an attourney.
3) Someone paid legal costs and other costs for Ford.
4) Weinstein did not tell the senate committee about the allegations during the course of the hearings. She mentioned nothing in closed door hearings or private interviews with Kavanaugh.
5) After the vote was scheduled but before it was conducted rumors of the letter start to circulate. Ford has denied it was as a result of her. Feinstein has denied circulating it. Media members start showing up on Ford's doorstep.
6) Ford decides that her only alternative at this point is to go public.

Do you believe this is how Ford wanted it to play out? If her goal was to stop the nomination and stay anonymous don't you think that a far better strategy would have been to reveal the letter to the senate confirmation committee behind closed doors within a week or so of receiving it? The only reason I can think of to handle it the way she did is if Feinstein was more interested in creating embarrassment and delays for the Republicans than she was in handling the matter professionally and confidentially as requested by Ford.

We might never know exactly what happened for sure, but I haven't heard anyone suggest an explanation that makes Feinstein's handling of this matter seem professional. I think my explanation is far more likely than yours. If Feinstein's real motivation to hide the letter until the last moment was to protect Ford's confidentiality then that sure did backfire.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
And you know that how? None of us know exactly what went on, but I believe the evidence suggests it played out a lot more closely to what I'm suggesting than what you are. What we do know is that:
1) Ford wrote a letter to Weinstein describing her accusation and asking to remain confidential.
2) Weinstein helped Ford to find an attourney.
3) Someone paid legal costs and other costs for Ford.
4) Weinstein did not tell the senate committee about the allegations during the course of the hearings. She mentioned nothing in closed door hearings or private interviews with Kavanaugh.
5) After the vote was scheduled but before it was conducted rumors of the letter start to circulate. Ford has denied it was as a result of her. Feinstein has denied circulating it. Media members start showing up on Ford's doorstep.
6) Ford decides that her only alternative at this point is to go public.

Do you believe this is how Ford wanted it to play out? If her goal was to stop the nomination and stay anonymous don't you think that a far better strategy would have been to reveal the letter to the senate confirmation committee behind closed doors within a week or so of receiving it? The only reason I can think of to handle it the way she did is if Feinstein was more interested in creating embarrassment and delays for the Republicans than she was in handling the matter professionally and confidentially as requested by Ford.

We might never know exactly what happened for sure, but I haven't heard anyone suggest an explanation that makes Feinstein's handling of this matter seem professional. I think my explanation is far more likely than yours. If Feinstein's real motivation to hide the letter until the last moment was to protect Ford's confidentiality then that sure did backfire.
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Joe, I have not been following, within this thread, the particular subject you are discussing here, so I am not sure if this 2 day old story is relevant or not. But, in the event it might be, since it does seem very detailed:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rds-explosive-accusation-Brett-Kavanaugh.html
 
Red said:
Joe, I have not been following, within this thread, the particular subject you are discussing here, so I am not sure if this 2 day old story is relevant or not. But, in the event it might be, since it does seem very detailed:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rds-explosive-accusation-Brett-Kavanaugh.html
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My claim is that Feinstein sat on the letter until the last minute because she wanted to draw things out. I believe that she wanted to burn out as much clock as possible before derailing the Republican's plan with this allegation. I believe that the untrue story about Ford not being able to fly is further evidence that there was an effort on the part of the people handling Ford's case to create delays. I believe that the reason they wanted to create these delays is that they wanted to prevent the republicans from confirming anybody before the mid-terms.

All that said, I agree with Feinstein that Kavanaugh should not be on the Supreme Court.
 
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
My claim is that Feinstein sat on the letter until the last minute because she wanted to draw things out. I believe that she wanted to burn out as much clock as possible before derailing the Republican's plan with this allegation. I believe that the untrue story about Ford not being able to fly is further evidence that there was an effort on the part of the people handling Ford's case to create delays. I believe that the reason they wanted to create these delays is that they wanted to prevent the republicans from confirming anybody before the mid-terms.

All that said, I agree with Feinstein that Kavanaugh should not be on the Supreme Court.
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I agree with you. Sounds like Ford reported it so something would get done. Ford had asked that she remain confidential. She didn't say not to report it to the committee. Feinstein could have reported it anonymously. But it was in the Dems best interest to wait.
 
Here's the thing, you can be upset with Feinstein if you want, even though Ford herself says she supports how Feinstein handled the letter, whatever that's fine.

However, the fact is she referred the letter to the FBI three weeks ago (which made both the white house and the rest of the committee aware of the allegations) and yet they resisted every request for an investigation. That is what we are waiting on now. The delay is 100% on Republicans at this point.
 
Zombie said:


So much for the FBI investigation answering any questions.

This whole thing is an absolute sham.
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Despite recent tweets by Trump, it still seems certain that key people are not going to be interviewed. Sounds like the Whitehouse Council's office has designed this limited investigation to get Kavanaugh through unscathed, and allow the Republicans to say they allowed an FBI investigation, and did not find enough to get past "he said, she said".
I hope the fact that Kavanaugh lied through his teeth counted for something, but I'm not holding my breath, I just don't expect the obvious lying will keep him off the highest court.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...vestigation-allegations-against-brett-n915061
 
Zombie said:
Here's the thing, you can be upset with Feinstein if you want, even though Ford herself says she supports how Feinstein handled the letter, whatever that's fine.

However, the fact is she referred the letter to the FBI three weeks ago (which made both the white house and the rest of the committee aware of the allegations) and yet they resisted every request for an investigation. That is what we are waiting on now. The delay is 100% on Republicans at this point.
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Haha, okay. I don't blame the Dems for doing it, it was despicable, but savvy. I am not upset about it. It is what I have come to expect from both political parties. The Republications were reactionary given the short timeline. At that point the game was to rush for the Repubs or delay for the Dems. So saying the delay was all on the Repubs at that point is not accurate at all. Any person with half a brain knows whay political game is being played. The Dems were ready to do anything they could to block Kavanaugh. Feinstein played her pawn to perfection.
 
Ok, one more time. Given Dr Ford approved of how Feinstein handled her letter, it's completely illogical to blame Feinstein for how it played out, unless you think she should have publicly outed an assault victim against her will, or you think that Ford herself is a political operative. There are no other options here.
 
Red said:
It was an excellent analysis. And as much as I appreciate the fact that Sen. Whitehouse's focus on the yearbook entries led to answers by Kavanaugh that are not believable, it is right that Robinson somewhat takes Whitehouse to task for not probing further about the "devil's triangle" entry, and Kavanaugh's claim that it was "a drinking game". Just keep asking Kavanaugh to explain in detail how this game is played. Whitehouse did not do that to anywhere near a sufficient degree.

There was the opportunity for Kavanaugh to describe what is obviously a well known reference to a threesome involving two men and a woman as instead a drinking game. I would have been very interested to hear how Kavanaugh would have described a drinking game that does not exist. That would seem to be "go for the jugular vein" territory, and instead Whitehouse just let it go and did not ask Kavanaugh to describe this so-called drinking game in detail. Too bad. Opportunity to hear an elaborately spun lie, perhaps, was lost.

Well developed analysis. Thanks for posting it.
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I remembered there being a lot of time pressures on each senators to grill Kavanaugh (there has to be a shorter way to write out his name, JK for Judge Kavanaugh?) though right? I remember many of them saying "I've only got 1 minute left", etc, etc, etc.

I appreciate that these people have to sit there for a long time but it all seemed pretty rushed to me.
 
Zombie said:
Ok, one more time. Given Dr Ford approved of how Feinstein handled her letter, it's completely illogical to blame Feinstein for how it played out, unless you think she should have publicly outed an assault victim against her will, or you think that Ford herself is a political operative. There are no other options here.
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I read she was fine with Feinstein keeping the letter itself and her identity private, and how Feinstein kept her confidentiality.

Why would she make it known at all if she didn't want the incident revealed to the committee, albeit confidentially? That makes absolutely no sense.

It was also noted that the letter itself was leaked to the press.

She says that she sent a letter detailing the allegations to Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California but had planned not to come forward. But the letter was leaked to the press. She then decided that she should speak out to tell her story in her own words.

Sure, Feinstein stated that Ford had told her friends about it. But the actual letter was leaked. How did that happen? I see four options:

1)Feinstein/Staff
2)Eschoo/Staff
3)Ford's lawyers
4) Ford

If 1 or 2 it looks very politically driven (likely)
If 3 her lawyers should be disbarred (very possible)
If 4 then Ford lied. (I think Ford is telling the truth.)
 
ONE LOVE said:
I remembered there being a lot of time pressures on each senators to grill Kavanaugh (there has to be a shorter way to write out his name, JK for Judge Kavanaugh?) though right? I remember many of them saying "I've only got 1 minute left", etc, etc, etc.

I appreciate that these people have to sit there for a long time but it all seemed pretty rushed to me.
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It was a very odd format. Super frustrating to watch.
 
Zombie said:
Here's the thing, you can be upset with Feinstein if you want, even though Ford herself says she supports how Feinstein handled the letter, whatever that's fine.

However, the fact is she referred the letter to the FBI three weeks ago (which made both the white house and the rest of the committee aware of the allegations) and yet they resisted every request for an investigation. That is what we are waiting on now. The delay is 100% on Republicans at this point.
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That's your opinion. I'm confident that if the roles were reversed (Republicans trying to throw a last minute wrench in the Dem's plans) you would be blaming the Republicans in that case as well.
 
JAZZGASM said:
I read she was fine with Feinstein keeping the letter itself and her identity private, and how Feinstein kept her confidentiality.

Why would she make it known at all if she didn't want the incident revealed to the committee, albeit confidentially? That makes absolutely no sense.

It was also noted that the letter itself was leaked to the press.

She says that she sent a letter detailing the allegations to Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California but had planned not to come forward. But the letter was leaked to the press. She then decided that she should speak out to tell her story in her own words.

Sure, Feinstein stated that Ford had told her friends about it. But the actual letter was leaked. How did that happen? I see four options:

1)Feinstein/Staff
2)Eschoo/Staff
3)Ford's lawyers
4) Ford

If 1 or 2 it looks very politically driven (likely)
If 3 her lawyers should be disbarred (very possible)
If 4 then Ford lied. (I think Ford is telling the truth.)
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In fact the letter itself was not leaked. The intercept reporter who was the first to get hold of this story is saying it wasn't Feinstein’s office who tipped him off. And Ford herself said she had talked to friends about who to send the letter to. That's the most likely source for how her identity was made known to the press before she came out out publicly herself.

As far as I know what was in the letter didn't make it into the press until it was given to the FBI and thus was available to all member of the committee.
 
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