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Jabari Parker

JimLes said:
Get the **** out of here. I know this is partly hyperbole, but I'm old enough to remember Boozer and this is some bull ****. I'm also capable enough to compare what the numbers say about the two players.

Boozer's two best years in SLC, he put up 21-10-3 on 55% from the field. Did it all in less than 35 minutes a game and was selected by coaches to play in the ASG both years. His ORtg was 114 and 112 those two seasons and his DRtg was 104 and 103. His winshares were 9.9 and 10.2. His box plus/minus was 4.6 the first season and 3.2 the second. Both years, he had more than 1.0 defensive box plus/minus, as well. Turns out Boozer did play a bit of defense, too. His Value Over Replacement Player the year we went to conference finals was 4.3. You know how many players had higher VORP last season? 15. Steph ****ing Curry was at 4.4 last year. Boozer was all-NBA third team in 2008, as well. Manu, McGrady, Yao Ming and Paul Pierce were on the 3rd team with him.

Now, let's look at Jabari. His best season offensively and overall was 16/17. He put up 20 points per game. He shot 49% from the field but unlike Boozer he took 4 threes a game so that's a quite good shooting percentage for this day and age. His Ortg and Drtg were both 110. His winshare total was 4 and his box plus/minus was a paltry 0.2. Hey, at least he wasn't in the red. And ignoring his pathetic defence(remember, he played the same position as Boozer so you can't use the excuse that DBPM skews towards big men), even his OBPM was only 1.5. His VORP was 1.0. I mean, Ekpe was at 1.6 last year.

You can say a lot of negative things about Boozer, but that he was 1/10th of the offensive player Jabari is....that's just stupid.
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Not everything can be captured by statistics. Not every bucket is created equal. Jabari is by far a more dominant player than either Boozer or Big Al. He also has a wider range of skills.
 
l Abach l said:
Still the most fun jazz team I've watched. That D-Will/Boozer/Okur offense was a thing of beauty. I love how much $hit those late 2000's teams get on these boards though... that team would've laid waste to the current jazz team. Boozer/Okur would've been a match-up nightmare for Gobert.

That team to this day was the biggest should've could've would've... Had Fisher stayed and not gone to LA, I really think that the Jazz would've won it all in '08 or '10. He was one of the better defenders on D-Will and caused him the most issues.
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This is funny.

So, the Dwill Boozer team was only Derrick Fisher staying away from winning the championship? Did you even watch that series? Or that Jazz team? It had huge flaws. The biggest was that it zero post defense. Also was not dominant at all. The length of the Lakers front court is what hurt the Jazz. Not Derrick Fisher. This current Jazz team would wax that team. You really think Gobert and Favors would struggle with guarding Boozer and Memo, or that either one of those guys would stop Gobert and Favors? The same Memo and Boozer with zero lateral quickness and the same duo who struggled mightily against longer players?

Gobert would guard Boozer and eat his lunch. Favors would easily guard Memo and eat his lunch too. We wouldnt be having to play small ball. It would play right into the strength of this team. .
 
That literally might be the weirdest argument Ive had on JazzFanz

"Memo and Boozer would have been a nightmare matchup for Gobert and Favors"

What?

Gobert is going to struggle guarding all of 6'7" slow, short armed Boozer?
 
NPC D4617 said:
This is funny.

So, the Dwill Boozer team was only Derrick Fisher staying away from winning the championship? Did you even watch that series? Or that Jazz team? It had huge flaws. The biggest was that it zero post defense. Also was not dominant at all. The length of the Lakers front court is what hurt the Jazz. Not Derrick Fisher. This current Jazz team would wax that team. You really think Gobert and Favors would struggle with guarding Boozer and Memo, or that either one of those guys would stop Gobert and Favors? The same Memo and Boozer with zero lateral quickness and the same duo who struggled mightily against longer players?

Gobert would guard Boozer and eat his lunch. Favors would easily guard Memo and eat his lunch too. We wouldnt be having to play small ball. It would play right into the strength of this team. .
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Derek Fisher even
 
Hitman said:
I'll just address this idea directly - putting more pressure on Rudy to play help D just gives the referees more chances to call fouls on him. It also only works if the opposition don't have a good outside shooting centre.

But it doesn't matter, because it is possible to target a weaker defender in spite of having a great help defender. Opponents targeting Jerebko is why he is no longer with us - he tried, but didn't have the ability. Niang came in for the same treatment this season, so he now gets DNPs. Having one player out of sync is enough to ruin the scheme - Exum losing his head on D and freelancing was why he started collecting DNPs. If trying and failing at D isn't acceptable, will Quin accept not trying? If he does make an exception, how will this impact team culture?

We've also seen this from the other side. Remember the OKC series, where we isolated Melo at every opportunity and scored on him at will? And when he ended up with the Rockets, there was a rare 100% consensus on this board that he would bring the same issue, even though they also have a good defensive C in Capela. And now the Rockets have realised that too, and since sending him home have started winning again.
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You really didnt even address my main point which was that if we have a better offense it would improve our defense. Using Jerebko and Exum as examples was to fair, a bad argument. Because they suck bad at offense. So their DNP's arent necessarily tied to bad defense. Its just means they suck all around. Exum cant even hold onto the ball or make layups. Im guessing that has a lot more to do with him not playing.
 
NPC D4617 said:
That literally might be the weirdest argument Ive had on JazzFanz

"Memo and Boozer would have been a nightmare matchup for Gobert and Favors"

What?

Gobert is going to struggle guarding all of 6'7" slow, short armed Boozer?
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It would probably be an ugly series. Don't forget Sloan had AK who while was disinterested, could still easily shut down Mitchell, Crowder, or whoever the one player we have a night that might be hot.
 
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Jazz4ever said:
It would probably be an ugly series. Don't forget Sloan had AK who while was disinterested, could still easily shut down Mitchell, Crowder, or whoever the one player we have a night that might be hot.
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His main argument really is that Boozer and Memo would be giving Gobert and Favors fits. Which sounds a lot like he thinks they are better. Which they just arent.

If you swapped them out, this current team would be horrendous and that old Jazz team probably would have won the championship. Gobert's defense was exactly what that team was missing.

This Jazz team has been constructed precisely because of what came before it. It was a horrendously bad defensive team. And comparing numbers from this era to that era doesnt work. Its a different era. Teams shoot more 3's and play at a different pace. When I watched that team is was infuriating watching Boozer and Memo play no defense.

Now if you swapped just Gobert and played Boozer it probably have worked too. Or even Memo and Gobert. Just like I am advocating for Jabari. Its not perfect. But I bet it would work.
 
NPC D4617 said:
Not everything can be captured by statistics. Not every bucket is created equal. Jabari is by far a more dominant player than either Boozer or Big Al. He also has a wider range of skills.
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Lol what. Nobody was more dominant than Big Al in the low post, the best pump fake I ever seen.
 
Hitman said:
That's because it isn't even a point worth addressing, because the two are not related.
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So when an offensive player misses a shot and it starts a fast break for the other team, thats not related to defense at all? There is no difference between the offense taking the ball out underneath the hoop vs starting from 3/4's the way down the court, and the defense on its heels?
 
JimLes said:
Since I'm still worked up about the sheer audacity of Boozer-Parker comparisons, I will leave this here.



35-14-5 on 23 shots, in a playoff game 7 played on enemy territory. Against two future Hall-of-Famers in their prime. 12 All-NBA appearances combined.

It seems stupid to say that I'd take this Boozer over Parker any day, so I will just say I would take current 37-year old Boozer over Parker.
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All I said was that parker is Boozer lite.

Sent from my SM-G965U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Hitman said:
That's because it isn't even a point worth addressing, because the two are not related.
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This is true and not true. If you take the concept of defense, and divide it up into transition defense vs. set defense, hitting shots on the offense does not improve either subset individually. What hitting shots does is more often put us into a set defense s. a transition defense, thus improving our overall defense.

It's not a good argument to get Jabari Parker, though.
 
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