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D'Angelo Russell

LoPo said:
Russell has a better defensive FG% than Rubio too.

To argue Rubio over Russell is just a lazy attempt to be confrontational.
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Cost is important too... Russell at $20M a year? 15? 25? I think Rubio gets in the 10M ballpark unless its a one year overpay Favs special (I'm prepared for that to be our huge use of dry powder).

Russell has struggled with injuries too... I'm telling you... it's like the hot girl that you aren't sure why she's single... you find out she has daddy issues and you are like fine I'll deal with that... then you find out she's high maintenance and you are like "sure... this will still be fine".... and then you discover she likes the post Pinkerton Weezer albums more than the blue album and then you like "I'm out... someone else can deal with her".
 
LoPo said:
- Rubio has a EFG% of 45% while shooting 11 shots per game. Russell has a EFG% of 49.6% while shooting 17 shots per game.
- Rubio gets to shoot wide freaking open shots. Russell does not.
- Rubio plays on a better team than Brooklyn yet he still struggles offensively.
- Russell gets more assists while having less turnovers than Rubio.


Let me emphasize, Rubio is the worst statistical starter on our team and he gets to shoot wide open shots. In our offense, Russell would have a much, much easier time scoring and facilitating.
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Yeah, Russell is a good shooter, I established that. That's all he is. He's historically bad at finishing and getting to the ft line. He's also a bad defender who has poor awareness and effort on that end combined with poor athletic ability.

As far as assist, the guy has a 30% usage rate compared to Rubio's 22%. He's on the ball constantly unless DinWiddie is in the game. His team is also a much better shooting team, so he has a lot more easy assist than Rubio where it's just him dribbling in place while his wings come of screens. He plays a lot safer than Rubio as well, so he gets less turnovers. Since he can't get by anyone off the dribble, he doesnt really force too many things and just settles for difficult jump shots or kicks out to his team's many 3pt shooters.

I wanted to find out just how bad Russell's FT ability has been in a historical context, so I looked it up. https://www.basketball-reference.co...al=25&order_by=fta_per_fga_pct&order_by_asc=Y

I wanted to find players who had top two option usage (above 25% usage rate), took top two option shots per game (above 15 shots per game), and played at least 25 mpg.

With those parameters, Russell is having the 2nd lowest FTR for a high usage player ever, and of the players on the last, Russell has the highest usage rate
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, Russell is a good shooter, I established that. That's all he is. He's historically bad at finishing and getting to the ft line. He's also a bad defender who has poor awareness and effort on that end combined with poor athletic ability.

As far as assist, the guy has a 30% usage rate compared to Rubio's 22%. He's on the ball constantly unless DinWiddie is in the game. His team is also a much better shooting team, so he has a lot more easy assist than Rubio where it's just him dribbling in place while his wings come of screens. He plays a lot safer than Rubio as well, so he gets less turnovers. Since he can't get by anyone off the dribble, he doesnt really force too many things and just settles for difficult jump shots or kicks out to his team's many 3pt shooters.

I wanted to find out just how bad Russell's FT ability has been in a historical context, so I looked it up. https://www.basketball-reference.co...al=25&order_by=fta_per_fga_pct&order_by_asc=Y

I wanted to find players who had top two option usage (above 25% usage rate), took top two option shots per game (above 15 shots per game), and played at least 25 mpg.

With those parameters, Russell is having the 2nd lowest FTR for a high usage player ever, and of the players on the last, Russell has the highest usage rate
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Russell prefers the Green Album... I'm out.
 
LoPo said:
Russell has a better defensive FG% than Rubio too.

To argue Rubio over Russell is just a lazy attempt to be confrontational.
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Yeah, Rubio has played the toughest schedule in the NBA and plays Western Conference guards. But congrats, you found the 1 stat this year that might say Russell is a better defender. Now go find anyone who watches basketball who would say that, you won't.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, Rubio has played the toughest schedule in the NBA and plays Western Conference guards. But congrats, you found the 1 stat this year that might say Russell is a better defender. Now go find anyone who watches basketball who would say that, you won't.
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You're the one who is trying to say Rubio is better than Russell. You're also the one who compared Russell to Jose Calderon.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
And suggesting we get Russell because you think he’s the best we can get is irresponsible.


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Is he better than anybody we will sign in free agency? Unless it's 2004, Russell would be the best free agent signing we would have ever had.

You might have an argument via trade. It is still possible we could trade for something better than Russell, but I highly, highly doubt we get Beal.

I would argue that DL trading for Russell would be the best NBA player that DL ever traded for. He would have more of an impact than Crowder, Hill, Rubio, Korver, etc. Russell represents help now and as a running mate next to DM for the long term. Note: I'm not counting when DL traded up within a draft to get Mitchell.
 
LoPo said:
You're the one who is trying to say Rubio is better than Russell. You're also the one who compared Russell to Jose Calderon.
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Man, reading is a real struggle for you.

This is what I said about Rubio in this thread "Ricky Rubio, a bad shooter, averages more points per shot than Russell on the season."

I was simply using Rubio, a bad shooter, as a reference to show how bad Russell is at scoring. I never said either player was better or worse than the other.

And yeah, I stick by the Calderon/Russell comparison. Prime Calderon was much better because he was lower usage and more efficient, but both have similar weaknesses.
 
LoPo said:
Is he better than anybody we will sign in free agency? Unless it's 2004, Russell would be the best free agent signing we would have ever had.

You might have an argument via trade. It is still possible we could trade for something better than Russell, but I highly, highly doubt we get Beal.

I would argue that DL trading for Russell would be the best NBA player that DL ever traded for. He would have more of an impact than Crowder, Hill, Rubio, Korver, etc. Russell represents help now and as a running mate next to DM for the long term. Note: I'm not counting when DL traded up within a draft to get Mitchell.
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Omg. How good do you think Russell is?


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And IDK, Russell might be better on this team than Rubio or Rubio might be better on this team than Russell. I think it's probably fairly close either way. Both are heavily flawed players and neither excite me for the long-term future if I have a choice.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Man, reading is a real struggle for you.

This is what I said about Rubio in this thread "Ricky Rubio, a bad shooter, averages more points per shot than Russell on the season."

I was simply using Rubio, a bad shooter, as a reference to show how bad Russell is at scoring. I never said either player was better or worse than the other.

And yeah, I stick by the Calderon/Russell comparison. Prime Calderon was much better because he was lower usage and more efficient, but both have similar weaknesses.
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This team has zero chance to contend. Cy, you wouldn't have the balls to make a tough decision in your life. You would simply say "we tried", make an excuse like somebody got hurt, and accept year after year of mediocrity.

Trying to explain the virtues of Russell to you would obviously fall on deaf and dumb ears and eyes. You don't get it because you are afraid. But we all know this from all your years of celebrating mediocrity.
 
LoPo said:
This team has zero chance to contend. Cy, you wouldn't have the balls to make a tough decision in your life. You would simply say "we tried", make an excuse like somebody got hurt, and accept year after year of mediocrity.

Trying to explain the virtues of Russell to you would obviously fall on deaf and dumb ears and eyes. You don't get it because you are afraid. But we all know this from all your years of celebrating mediocrity.
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Man, I understand what Russell is good at, it's pretty simple cuz he's only good at one thing. I've contemplated wanting Russell and talked about it on here (besides that I hyped him endlessly the year he was in college). I'm sorry that I can be objective and weigh the positives and negatives of players.

You've decided how you feel about the guy and are now going to war to defend him, ignoring all the logical counter arguments to him and going on the defensive making up strawmen to anyone who says otherwise

And again, I don't know how saying "Woah, maybe we don't want one of the worst rim finishers and FT drawers in NBA history" is me not having balls. Is balls making a terrible decision without logic?
 
LoPo said:
https://www.deseretnews.com/top/391...nt-signings-the-Utah-Jazz-have-ever-made.html

We suck at signing free agents. But hey, we might get Tobias this summer.....
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that's a dumb list by D-News... Hayward was an important signing... Millsap???? No one cares about guys we retained.

Also, kind of depressing... it's Booze, Okur, and Harpring really.

If Harris hadn't leveled up this year I think we could get him but it would be because the Clips didn't want to go full max and we'd be the best option that would.

It is a different time now and I do think we could get someone... but if we swapped our expirings for Gallo and something else and played in the MLE free agent market I think I'd prefer that.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
There are 8 guys on that list I’d rather have, and two guys I’d seriously think about signing over Russell


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Well considering a few on that list were guys we were going to keep anyway because they were restricted free agents.....

Take out the restricted free agents, Boozer and Okur, who do you take over 22 year old 18ppg 6apg Russell?
 
Lopo: The guy who says you have no balls when you don't want to sign bad to average PG's to be your starter, but will then chastise DL for being safe while trading for George Hill.

Dishonest moron.
 
LoPo said:
In December, he has averaged 18.6ppg, 7.7apg, 3.4rpg as the lead guard on a team who has won 6 straight games including wins over the Lakers, Sixers and Raptors.

So what if he doesn't get to the FT line all too much?
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Very hard to be efficient without free throws
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
that's a dumb list by D-News... Hayward was an important signing... Millsap???? No one cares about guys we retained.

Also, kind of depressing... it's Booze, Okur, and Harpring really.

If Harris hadn't leveled up this year I think we could get him but it would be because the Clips didn't want to go full max and we'd be the best option that would.

It is a different time now and I do think we could get someone... but if we swapped our expirings for Gallo and something else and played in the MLE free agent market I think I'd prefer that.
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I mean, they did sign Terry and Maggette, they just got matched.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Man, I understand what Russell is good at, it's pretty simple cuz he's only good at one thing. I've contemplated wanting Russell and talked about it on here (besides that I hyped him endlessly the year he was in college). I'm sorry that I can be objective and weigh the positives and negatives of players.

You've decided how you feel about the guy and are now going to war to defend him, ignoring all the logical counter arguments to him and going on the defensive making up strawmen to anyone who says otherwise

And again, I don't know how saying "Woah, maybe we don't want one of the worst rim finishers and FT drawers in NBA history" is me not having balls. Is balls making a terrible decision without logic?
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You're first sentence is miles off and why your assumptions are so off.

Russell has proven to score the ball and pass the ball on a team with very few options: 2 things right there.

You can argue that he doesn't score at a good percentage so that makes him a bad scorer. But if you break down stats, you can always find a way to find a negative on any player. I'm sure Mitchell has some terrible stats to highlight, but does that mean he's not a scorer?

I'm very aware that Russell is flawed. I would love to get better. I like Rubio, but I would also like to get better than him which is Russell. I like that Russell's biggest flaws (getting to the line, iso, etc.) are things that Mitchell does well. In my opinion, Russell is a fantastic fit next to Mitchell and he compliments what we want to do with Ingles and Gobert. He is a fit for now and the foreseeable future.
 
Lopo is the kind of dude who probably identifies as a conservative and argues against global warming just to "own the libs".
 
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