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The "Don't Draft Chris Singleton" Thread

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
2022 Award Winner
1) Singleton is not AK. I keep hearing this idea that Singleton will be effectively replacing AK. No one is going to replace AK. Love him or not, AK is like no one else. While his work ethic leaves everything to be desired, the guy has/had talent just coming out of his ears and is/was insanely versatile (except for the one thing that could've made him incredible; his long-range shot). AK is deceptively good at handling the ball, facilitating the offense still or on the move, and naturally an incredible passer. His vision is that of a PG's. Once upon a time (and every once in a while still) he was a threat to rack up a 5x5 or quadruple-double. His feel and knowledge for the game on BOTH sides of the ball make him a simultaneously quiet and massive impact player. Singleton played really good defense in college and what else? I'm by no means advocating bringing AK back (another topic), but even if you're paying peanuts to Singleton, he's not AK. Cut the crap. Hell, besides that, AK was picked 24th. Not 12th.

2) Singleton's a big body that plays D. What else? He mysteriously is allergic to the rim (relative his physical attributes and lack of a shot) and isn't a factor in transition. He can hit a wide-open shot, but asking him to do anything else in that area and you're asking for a wasted possession. He's smart enough to know his limitations for the most part, but he doesn't stand apart in any way besides steals. This is a 3-year player, if there's something besides defense that he wants to show us, we should have started to see it by now.

3) Perimeter defense is not nearly as important as interior defense (you are responsible for your guy basically, not an entire team), and offensive shortcomings are immensely more difficult to mask and penalizing for a perimeter player (Ronnie Brewer, and he could finish and pass). Long story short, you have to be a factor offensively to be a perimeter player, and that starts with shooting. Singleton might improve, but what's to say any other prospect won't either?

4) Perimeter defenders aren't that special or hard to find. They are basically universally MLE or lower players (because they're not rare). A lottery pick is relatively rare in a draft and should be treated as such. It shouldn't be burnt on a player that, on paper, you can find ALL OVER the draft. Here are some names of perimeter defenders in this draft not named Chris Singleton that WILL be drafted after 12 or not drafted at all;
-Gilbert Brown
-David Lighty
-Justin Holiday
-Jimmy Butler
-Tobias Harris
-Tyler Honeycutt
To a man, I like all of these prospects at least as much as Singleton (and some A LOT more [Butler]). I want my perimeter players to defend as much as anyone, but you don't need to use lottery picks to find them. They are all over the draft every single year.

5) Players that I would take ahead of Singleton at 12 that could be there (not even close)
-Biyombo
-Hamilton
-Thompson
-Burks
-Thompson
If all of these guys are off the board, then players even better will be available.

Summary: The #12 pick historically isn't much better than the ones after it, but that doesn't mean it isn't a better opportunity than the ones after since the Jazz have the pick of the litter. Swing for the fences. You can find Singleton's in any given draft, if Jordan Hamilton becomes what we wished Miles HAD become and/or Biyombo becomes the second-coming of Ben Wallace, then it's going to be very hard to be happy with stronger Corey Brewer (thanks billyshelby).
 
If you're one of the best athletes in the country who couldn't score effectively after 3 years of college, you're probably not that good of a basketball player. You can't take guys with no offensive upside at the wing in the lottery.
 
I agree with Numberica. I want a shooter, slasher, ball-handling athlete at SF. I'm so meh about the defensive prowess angle.
 
You had me at "Singleton is not AK." KOC get this guy.

I assume this is said in jest to some degree, but in case there's any confusion for anyone out there, I'm saying AK >>>>>>>>>> Singleton. To the point that they are not even comparable (and this is coming from a guy whose AK-hate should be fairly well-known to the regulars here).
 
1) Singleton is not AK. I keep hearing this idea that Singleton will be effectively replacing AK. No one is going to replace AK. Love him or not, AK is like no one else. While his work ethic leaves everything to be desired, the guy has/had talent just coming out of his ears and is/was insanely versatile (except for the one thing that could've made him incredible; his long-range shot). AK is deceptively good at handling the ball, facilitating the offense still or on the move, and naturally an incredible passer. His vision is that of a PG's. Once upon a time (and every once in a while still) he was a threat to rack up a 5x5 or quadruple-double. His feel and knowledge for the game on BOTH sides of the ball make him a simultaneously quiet and massive impact player. Singleton played really good defense in college and what else? I'm by no means advocating bringing AK back (another topic), but even if you're paying peanuts to Singleton, he's not AK. Cut the crap. Hell, besides that, AK was picked 24th. Not 12th.

2) Singleton's a big body that plays D. What else? He mysteriously is allergic to the rim (relative his physical attributes and lack of a shot) and isn't a factor in transition. He can hit a wide-open shot, but asking him to do anything else in that area and you're asking for a wasted possession. He's smart enough to know his limitations for the most part, but he doesn't stand apart in any way besides steals. This is a 3-year player, if there's something besides defense that he wants to show us, we should have started to see it by now.

3) Perimeter defense is not nearly as important as interior defense (you are responsible for your guy basically, not an entire team), and offensive shortcomings are immensely more difficult to mask and penalizing for a perimeter player (Ronnie Brewer, and he could finish and pass). Long story short, you have to be a factor offensively to be a perimeter player, and that starts with shooting. Singleton might improve, but what's to say any other prospect won't either?

4) Perimeter defenders aren't that special or hard to find. They are basically universally MLE or lower players (because they're not rare). A lottery pick is relatively rare in a draft and should be treated as such. It shouldn't be burnt on a player that, on paper, you can find ALL OVER the draft. Here are some names of perimeter defenders in this draft not named Chris Singleton that WILL be drafted after 12 or not drafted at all;
-Gilbert Brown
-David Lighty
-Justin Holiday
-Jimmy Butler
-Tobias Harris
-Tyler Honeycutt
To a man, I like all of these prospects at least as much as Singleton (and some A LOT more [Butler]). I want my perimeter players to defend as much as anyone, but you don't need to use lottery picks to find them. They are all over the draft every single year.

5) Players that I would take ahead of Singleton at 12 that could be there (not even close)
-Biyombo
-Hamilton
-Thompson
-Burks
-Thompson
If all of these guys are off the board, then players even better will be available.

Summary: The #12 pick historically isn't much better than the ones after it, but that doesn't mean it isn't a better opportunity than the ones after since the Jazz have the pick of the litter. Swing for the fences. You can find Singleton's in any given draft, if Jordan Hamilton becomes what we wished Miles HAD become and/or Biyombo becomes the second-coming of Ben Wallace, then it's going to be very hard to be happy with stronger Corey Brewer (thanks billyshelby).

Couple things, if D-will2 falls then they will not select Singleton so you won't have to worry.

2) Singleton shot 37% from 3. That's not too bad, actually probably better than anyone on the Jazz last year. He also averages 7 boards a game, impressive for a SF
3) Disagree, when you have non existent defensive players on the wing, it puts way too much pressure on the interior defenders. As a result, you get wide open three's and dunks. (Which is what happens against the Jazz a lot)
4) I doubt any of those guys average 2 steals and 2 blocks a game. If he continually improves on offense he will be a very solid pro. I don't think he is worthy of a #12 pick but if you trade down to 15-17 range, he could still be there and you can get an additional asset
5) Agree
 
I assume this is said in jest to some degree, but in case there's any confusion for anyone out there, I'm saying AK >>>>>>>>>> Singleton. To the point that they are not even comparable (and this is coming from a guy whose AK-hate should be fairly well-known to the regulars here).


You're assumption would be correct. I for one do not want Singleton, but at the same time I would not be clamboring for KOC's head if he took him.
 
Couple things, if D-will2 falls then they will not select Singleton so you won't have to worry.

2) Singleton shot 37% from 3. That's not too bad, actually probably better than anyone on the Jazz last year. He also averages 7 boards a game, impressive for a SF
3) Disagree, when you have non existent defensive players on the wing, it puts way too much pressure on the interior defenders. As a result, you get wide open three's and dunks. (Which is what happens against the Jazz a lot)
4) I doubt any of those guys average 2 steals and 2 blocks a game. If he continually improves on offense he will be a very solid pro. I don't think he is worthy of a #12 pick but if you trade down to 15-17 range, he could still be there and you can get an additional asset
5) Agree

You should have a look at this:

https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-the-2011-Forward-Crop-3752/

If you don't want to read the analysis, you can just look at the numbers, they are objective. And again, this is a 3-year player, where's his offense (37% on wide-open shots IN THE NCAA and he didn't shoot that many)? And while his form isn't bad, what's to say ANY OTHER PLAYER of a similar quality can't improve their shooting also?

Sorry about the all-caps, I'm channeling my inner Hottttttttttttttttttttttnickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.
 
The only thing that bothers me about Singleton is his poor transition game. Pretty sad that a guy that huge and athletic isn't a better finisher.

Other than that though, I like him. I think he is going to be a better shooter than he was in college for a couple of reasons. Singleton was on a poor offensive team at FSU. He was the leading scorer, meaning that he had to create his own shots. That is obviously not his skill. I think he will make noticeable improvements to his shot as more of a spot up guy, which historically is what the Jazz ask from the offensive end of their SF.

That being said, I will be pissed if we take him over Alec Burks.
 
Or, for me, Burks, Hamilton, Biyombo, or Jonas (I don't think we need Thompson, though I like him better than Chris).
 
I really have wanted Singleton but you bring up good points about why not to. But you are severely overrating AK, and obviously these guys are different. I think people are saying Singleton would "replace" AK, like DWill2 would replace AK if we got him, not necessarily be like him. I swear AK is a turnover machine, I'm too lazy to go into stats to find out so you will probably burn me on this. Just from watching every game, that is how I feel. And I think you are underrating the importance of a perimeter defender (especially for our team). One example I can think of is Tony Allen. He is TERRIBLE on offense. Sure he can finish because of his athletic ability, but he makes horrendous decisions with the ball. But he still is a positive contributor to his team, because of defense. Again, I am saying this from just watching him play (playoffs mostly obviously) and haven't looked up any sort of stat to prove me wrong so you can go ahead and do that if you want.

Anyways, it does concern me he hasn't shown much improvement in 3 years college, but at 12 I really don't mind the risk because perimeter defense is a HUGE need for this team. If he can prove to be a decent perimeter defender (and even post defender on some occasions) then I think he will be a valuable player and definitely valuable enough for us at 12. I'm just thinking about guarding Kevin Durant for the next 10 years.
 
Of the potential wings at 12, singleton is my least favorite.

Burks, thompson, fredette>>>>singleton.
 
You should have a look at this:

https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-the-2011-Forward-Crop-3752/

If you don't want to read the analysis, you can just look at the numbers, they are objective. And again, this is a 3-year player, where's his offense (37% on wide-open shots IN THE NCAA and he didn't shoot that many)? And while his form isn't bad, what's to say ANY OTHER PLAYER of a similar quality can't improve their shooting also?

Sorry about the all-caps, I'm channeling my inner Hottttttttttttttttttttttnickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

He took over 3 a game I believe, I think thats a pretty good sample
 
I really have wanted Singleton but you bring up good points about why not to. But you are severely overrating AK, and obviously these guys are different. I think people are saying Singleton would "replace" AK, like DWill2 would replace AK if we got him, not necessarily be like him. I swear AK is a turnover machine, I'm too lazy to go into stats to find out so you will probably burn me on this. Just from watching every game, that is how I feel. And I think you are underrating the importance of a perimeter defender (especially for our team). One example I can think of is Tony Allen. He is TERRIBLE on offense. Sure he can finish because of his athletic ability, but he makes horrendous decisions with the ball. But he still is a positive contributor to his team, because of defense. Again, I am saying this from just watching him play (playoffs mostly obviously) and haven't looked up any sort of stat to prove me wrong so you can go ahead and do that if you want.

Anyways, it does concern me he hasn't shown much improvement in 3 years college, but at 12 I really don't mind the risk because perimeter defense is a HUGE need for this team. If he can prove to be a decent perimeter defender (and even post defender on some occasions) then I think he will be a valuable player and definitely valuable enough for us at 12. I'm just thinking about guarding Kevin Durant for the next 10 years.

I don't know if he is overrating AK so much as he is overrating AK in Utah. AK was never a good fit here. He always envisioned himself as a Point-Forward, but that never fit into what Sloan wanted to do. Singleton definitely would be a good fit alongside Hayward defensively. Offensively he wouldn't command the ball to be effective, which is a plus when you have a play-making 1 and 2 guard. Even though I really want Burks, it would be difficult to have 3 guys who all need the ball to be most effective (see 76'ers this past year.)
 
I don't know if he is overrating AK so much as he is overrating AK in Utah. AK was never a good fit here. He always envisioned himself as a Point-Forward, but that never fit into what Sloan wanted to do. Singleton definitely would be a good fit alongside Hayward defensively. Offensively he wouldn't command the ball to be effective, which is a plus when you have a play-making 1 and 2 guard. Even though I really want Burks, it would be difficult to have 3 guys who all need the ball to be most effective (see 76'ers this past year.)


I think it is a stretch to call anything Singleton does on offense 'effective'.
 
Singleton is the physical equivalent of Lebron James in college and wasn't that big of an offensive impact player for that team. Him being the leading scorer is a testament to how bad that team was in that regard.
 
Singleton is the physical equivalent of Lebron James in college and wasn't that big of an offensive impact player for that team. Him being the leading scorer is a testament to how bad that team was in that regard.

Which is why I think he will be a better offensive player in the NBA. He won't have the pressure of doing something he obviously can't do (create in half court). He would be nice to have when we play Kevin Durant too. He has the height to challenge his shots, and enough physicality to bully him. As of right now, all of our wings (especially if we dont resign AK) will get murdered by Durant.
 
Which is why I think he will be a better offensive player in the NBA. He won't have the pressure of doing something he obviously can't do (create in half court). He would be nice to have when we play Kevin Durant too. He has the height to challenge his shots, and enough physicality to bully him. As of right now, all of our wings (especially if we dont resign AK) will get murdered by Durant.

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