Trump's Address. Thoughts?

[Gameface]

Yes it does. Capitalism works when businesses aren't choked out and stifled by taxes. Then they can employ people, create more products, innovative, and improve the lives of people.

You tax the hell out of businesseses to pay for the welfare state and you got socialism.

Trickle-down is not a different way of saying capitalism. Trickle-down is the idea that you arrange your tax code to specifically benefit those at the top so that they build a larger economy and the economic benefits of that special treatment trickle down to the rest of us. Within a capitalistic economy it is possible to create a tax code (and other regulations) that is equally beneficial to everyone. The opposite of trickle down is not socialism.

 

[Hotdog]

Trickle-down is not a different way of saying capitalism. Trickle-down is the idea that you arrange your tax code to specifically benefit those at the top so that they build a larger economy and the economic benefits of that special treatment trickle down to the rest of us. Within a capitalistic economy it is possible to create a tax code (and other regulations) that is equally beneficial to everyone. The opposite of trickle down is not socialism.

Yes and no.

Making the business owner pay an outrages amount of taxes is socialism, and is problematic to the success of capitalism.

No, the opposite is not socialism. Or at least depends on what you are talking about. Lowering the taxes on the worker isnt socialism and is helpful. Im all for it. But giving more hand outs to people who aren't that productive or productive at and expecting that kind of trickle up to be helpful is stupid in most cases and is socialism.

 

[The Thriller]

Yes and no.

Making the business owner pay an outrages amount of taxes is socialism, and is problematic to the success of capitalism.

No, the opposite is not socialism. Or at least depends on what you are talking about. Lowering the taxes on the worker isnt socialism and is helpful. Im all for it. But giving more hand outs to people who aren't that productive or productive at and expecting that kind of trickle up to be helpful is stupid in most cases and is socialism.

But there comes a point where tax rates are no longer outrageous and the exact opposite is the problem. When tax rates are so low that government deficits skyrocket, social infrastructure investment drops, and the government’s ability to mediate an economic downturn is hurt. The low tax rates we’ve seen over the past few decades but especially over the last two years have proven to have few if any economic benefits and many negatives.

I think we’ve passed the point where cutting taxes provides economic benefit. If anything, tax rates need to increase to help mediate income inequality and to jumpstart the economy in certain areas. Namely, green technology. We need significiant investment in green jobs in areas that are economically depressed. I’d love to see rural areas and rust belt areas focused on economically. But instead of jobs In coal and car factories (reverting to a 1950s economy) green tech (think 2050 jobs).

Our nation didn’t become so dominate in the 20th century by refusing to invest in trains, coal, and railroads in the 19th. We could’ve focused on water canals and small farms. Thank god we didn’t.

 

[Hotdog]

But there comes a point where tax rates are no longer outrageous and the exact opposite is the problem. When tax rates are so low that government deficits skyrocket, social infrastructure investment drops, and the government’s ability to mediate an economic downturn is hurt. The low tax rates we’ve seen over the past few decades but especially over the last two years have proven to have few if any economic benefits and many negatives.

I think we’ve passed the point where cutting taxes provides economic benefit. If anything, tax rates need to increase to help mediate income inequality and to jumpstart the economy in certain areas. Namely, green technology. We need significiant investment in green jobs in areas that are economically depressed. I’d love to see rural areas and rust belt areas focused on economically. But instead of jobs In coal and car factories (reverting to a 1950s economy) green tech (think 2050 jobs).

Our nation didn’t become so dominate in the 20th century by refusing to invest in trains, coal, and railroads in the 19th. We could’ve focused on water canals and small farms. Thank god we didn’t.

The problem really lies within corruption of the government. Raising the tax rate on honest businesses isnt the solution. The solution is closing the loopholes and fixing the tax codes.

If there are businesses not paying any taxes, then that isnt right either. Its about finding the middle ground or goldylocks zone. You need taxes, but at the same time you have to be careful not to tax too much. Regardless of how many people are holding their hands out, or wanting extra benefits to life.

Businesses are a good thing. Jobs are a good thing. You dont bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[The Thriller]

The problem really lies within corruption of the government. Raising the tax rate on honest businesses isnt the solution. The solution is closing the loopholes and fixing the tax codes.

If there are businesses not paying any taxes, then that isnt right either. Its about finding the middle ground or goldylocks zone. You need taxes, but at the same time you have to be careful not to tax too much. Regardless of how many people are holding their hands out, or wanting extra benefits to life.

Businesses are a good thing. Jobs are a good thing. You dont bite the hand that feeds you.

No, corruption in government isn’t the problem. Corruption always has and always will exist.

The problem is lowering taxes so low that you can no longer fund social services or provide sufficient investment into the economy/country to continue to lead the world in innovation into the 21st century.

If lower taxes always meant better economic outcomes then why not lower taxes to zero?

It’s because lower taxation doent guarantee economic prosperity nor does higher taxation mean economic stagnation.

You can generate more revenue and a stronger economy through public investment. Right now that’s exwctly what’s needed to:
1. Rebuild rust belt and rural areas
2. Development green technogy to provide new jobs and energy for the 21st century. This also works to stave off the effects of climate change.
3. A more progressive tax is needed to redistribute wealth and tackle the problem of wealth inequality.
4. Tax cuts issued when taxes are already too low and the economy already humming along generate inflation causing the Feds to raise interest rates... so the economy doesn’t benefit and the deficit explodes while hindering the country’s future ability to react to economic downturn.

Taxes aren’t theft, no matter how often you libertarian morons repeat it.

 

[Hotdog]

No, corruption in government isn’t the problem. Corruption always has and always will exist.

The problem is lowering taxes so low that you can no longer fund social services or provide sufficient investment into the economy/country to continue to lead the world in innovation into the 21st century.

If lower taxes always meant better economic outcomes then why not lower taxes to zero?

It’s because lower taxation doent guarantee economic prosperity nor does higher taxation mean economic stagnation.

You can generate more revenue and a stronger economy through public investment. Right now that’s exwctly what’s needed to:
1. Rebuild rust belt and rural areas
2. Development green technogy to provide new jobs and energy for the 21st century. This also works to stave off the effects of climate change.
3. A more progressive tax is needed to redistribute wealth and tackle the problem of wealth inequality.
4. Tax cuts issued when taxes are already too low and the economy already humming along generate inflation causing the Feds to raise interest rates... so the economy doesn’t benefit and the deficit explodes while hindering the country’s future ability to react to economic downturn.

Taxes aren’t theft, no matter how often you libertarian morons repeat it.

We wouldnt have trouble funding social programs if we weren't spending trillions on useless and endless wars.

Your idea that corruption will always happen so its ok is stupid.

1. Rebuild rural areas? What? Ya, that sounds like a great idea.

2. Agree

3. Good hell. Wtf? Redistribute wealth? You marxists are ****ing insane. Who the hell do you think you are? Why do you think you are entitled to other people's labor and ideas? You are worse than slave owners.

4. Any of your ideas of giving money to the poor is far more likely to spike inflation. Infact even worse than trickle down could ever do.

Your ideas are precisely why the government shouldnt be deciding why, who what and where the money should go. You would just screw things up.

 

[gandalfe]

We wouldnt have trouble funding social programs if we weren't spending trillions on useless and endless wars.

Your idea that corruption will always happen so its ok is stupid.

1. Rebuild rural areas? What? Ya, that sounds like a great idea.

2. Agree

3. Good hell. Wtf? Redistribute wealth? You marxists are ****ing insane. Who the hell do you think you are? Why do you think you are entitled to other people's labor and ideas? You are worse than slave owners.

4. Any of your ideas of giving money to the poor is far more likely to spike inflation. Infact even worse than trickle down could ever do.

Your ideas are precisely why the government shouldnt be deciding why, who what and where the money should go. You would just screw things up.

Coming from the person who thinks that tickle-down is, in fact, capitalism...

Look, moron, here's the thing: There are some things that are better handled en masse. Police, for example, do you believe that only the rich should have that protection? Fire departments, roads, military, education... These are things which need to be handled by society as a whole, in order to make sure that they are done fairly. That naturally involves some people paying more than others - but they do, in fact, get larger benefits from society.

I mean, do you honestly believe that Jeff Bezos got where he is by... what... just working harder than you? Being a better person?

 

[Stoked]

As good a thread as any

https://www.newsweek.com/mueller-re...abilize-us-watergate-journalist-1289541?amp=1

Hypothetical. Let’s say Trump hasn’t done anything actually illegal. But he is shown as trying to help Russia to American detriment. That Russia basically bought an American President.

How is the response anything less than military action? Do we just shrug it off? Do we do some stupid sanctions?

Like for real. How does America, a nation with a self independence streak 100 miles wide, let that go without blood shed?

 

[Hotdog]

Coming from the person who thinks that tickle-down is, in fact, capitalism...

Look, moron, here's the thing: There are some things that are better handled en masse. Police, for example, do you believe that only the rich should have that protection? Fire departments, roads, military, education... These are things which need to be handled by society as a whole, in order to make sure that they are done fairly. That naturally involves some people paying more than others - but they do, in fact, get larger benefits from society.

I mean, do you honestly believe that Jeff Bezos got where he is by... what... just working harder than you? Being a better person?

What do the police and fire department have to do with anything I have said? I never said Im against all tax and public services. If you are going to get triggered at least make a good point about something I have said....moron

Do you honestly believe Jeff Bezos got where he is by sitting on his *** arguing day and night about how unfair life is in a liberal echo chamber the internet?

Yes, Im quite sure he has put in a lot more work than I have, and has taken far bigger risks than me to get there. He has also created a useful service that people like to use, and has created many jobs and has shared lot of that wealth. If you dont like it then dont use it. Good ****ing hell man. No one is forcing you to have cool ****. Go to the mountains and build our own stuff where the big bad corporations cant get you. No one is stopping you. But we both know you wont and why you wont. Its because you need Jeff Bezos, and all these successful people you are jealous of.

Here is the truth. You socialists cant create your own successful society with your stupid ideas so you want to take the successful capitalist society and use its wealth to start from there. Thats why you are foaming at the mouth right now desperately trying to get your hands on this.

 

[Gameface]

What do the police and fire department have to do with anything I have said? I never said Im against all tax and public services. If you are going to get triggered at least make a good point about something I have said....moron

Do you honestly believe Jeff Bezos got where he is by sitting on his *** arguing day and night about how unfair life is in a liberal echo chamber the internet?

Yes, Im quite sure he has put in a lot more work than I have, and has taken far bigger risks than me to get there. He has also created a useful service that people like to use, and has created many jobs and has shared lot of that wealth. If you dont like it then dont use it. Good ****ing hell man. No one is forcing you to have cool ****. Go to the mountains and build our own stuff where the big bad corporations cant get you. No one is stopping you. But we both know you wont and why you wont. Its because you need Jeff Bezos, and all these successful people you are jealous of.

Here is the truth. You socialists cant create your own successful society with your stupid ideas so you want to take the successful capitalist society and use its wealth to start from there. Thats why you are foaming at the mouth right now desperately trying to get your hands on this.

You socialists?

Name names, please. Surely you're not accusing gandalfe of being a socialist, are you?

 

[NAOS]

In this day and age, and given all that we know, why the mother-**** are you all wasting the cartilage in your fingers on Hack? Boggles my mind.

 

[Hotdog]

You socialists?

Name names, please. Surely you're not accusing gandalfe of being a socialist, are you?

I honestly dont know enough about him to know. But where is coming from sounds like one.

 

[Hotdog]

In this day and age, and given all that we know, why the mother-**** are you all wasting the cartilage in your fingers on Hack? Boggles my mind.

Your mind was already boggled bro.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

We wouldnt have trouble funding social programs if we weren't spending trillions on useless and endless wars.

Your idea that corruption will always happen so its ok is stupid.

1. Rebuild rural areas? What? Ya, that sounds like a great idea.

2. Agree

3. Good hell. Wtf? Redistribute wealth? You marxists are ****ing insane. Who the hell do you think you are? Why do you think you are entitled to other people's labor and ideas? You are worse than slave owners.

4. Any of your ideas of giving money to the poor is far more likely to spike inflation. Infact even worse than trickle down could ever do.

Your ideas are precisely why the government shouldnt be deciding why, who what and where the money should go. You would just screw things up.

People like you who are naive to the last 300 years or so of economic theory tend to push for feudalism. Talk about biting the hand that feeds us all, including the wealthy and successful.

 

[Alfalfa]

I never said Im against all tax and public services.

Taxes are theft you Marxist snowflake!

 

[One Brow]

Yes. It works. Capitalism works. Do you think you could give a straight faced answer on why America became so powerful economically and socialism has failed so many times in other places?

Socialism has worked in dozens of countries, and capitalism has failed in dozens. Of the reasons America has been so successful, capitalism is probably not in the top 5. Further, your question presupposes capitalism and socialism are opposed, which is a false presumption. Socialism and capitalism are completely compatible (for example, Germany, Sweden, etc.). What are opposed are socialism and corporatism, or capitalism and any other means of managing a market (communism, facism, etc.).

Do you really believe that the common worker is entitled to the same amount of money as the business owner who busted his *** and risked everything to start the business?

Has anyone on this board ever made such a claim?

If its so easy why doesnt everyone just do it?

Opportunities, training, access to funds, health, ambition, etc.

If businesses are so evil why do people continue to work for them? They dont have to you know.

Death is always an alternative.

 

[One Brow]

So you think the president should be held to a different moral standard than everyone else? Why the hell is that? Just because he is the president isnt a legit answer you ****ing simpleton.

The President, by nature of the office, is the most powerful person on earth, and needs to be held to a higher standard than a Senator or a Governor, who should have higher standards than Representatives, etc. With great power comes great responsibility.

 

[One Brow]

Yes it does. Capitalism works when businesses aren't choked out and stifled by taxes. Then they can employ people, create more products, innovative, and improve the lives of people.

In countries with higher tax rates, businesses still employ people, create more products, and improve the lives of people.

You tax the hell out of businesses to pay for the welfare state and you got socialism.

Your insistence on putting companies ahead of people is corportism, not capitalism.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Socialism has worked in dozens of countries, and capitalism has failed in dozens. Of the reasons America has been so successful, capitalism is probably not in the top 5. Further, your question presupposes capitalism and socialism are opposed, which is a false presumption. Socialism and capitalism are completely compatible (for example, Germany, Sweden, etc.). What are opposed are socialism and corporatism, or capitalism and any other means of managing a market (communism, facism, etc.).

Germany isn't the best example to use atm. Social policies have put them in a bad spot and would better prove NPC's position than yours. The middle class is getting hollowed out and they have ran out of places to tax the problems away.

I don't know why the right prefers to use terms in championing and demonizing ways when what they really mean is simple enough to say: it's not a good idea to encourage the masses to unnecessarily become wards of the state. I think that's something most reasonable people can agree to. Simple. I say it's not a good idea to make everyone a ward of the state, but we all deserve to benefit from advancements that society creates. That's the purpose of joining a society, is it not? Balancing widespread benefit while not creating moral hazard will always be a challenge. The championing and demonizing use of abstract terms is dumbed down blah, blah blah.

 

[Gameface]

Wrong. I have a very close friend whose son-in-law is an illegal immigrant. Now to his credit, he is working through the years-long process of becoming a US citizen, but he has also received food stamps and free hospitalization in the last year. (BTW, he hates the thought of granting amnesty to illegals who haven't jumped through the hoops that he has.)

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

So if he is working towards citizenship he has legal residency in the U.S..

So I wasn't wrong.

And either way "very close friend's son-in-law"? Yeah... Sounds pretty solid.