We all love Favors, but...

[infection]

If Griffin is gettable, you get him. He hasn’t been my favorite player, and in the past I’ve found him a bit overrated, but he takes us to the next level. I wouldn’t worry about the contract (that’s what makes him gettable — theoretically). If he were a bird in the hand, don’t be thinking about all the other birds up on the power lines.

Take what you can get when you can get it. We’re in a win now mode and, as YB used to say, flexibility can’t dribble a basketball.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

You're not wrong about this team having a 2nd round ceiling but I disagree that having a 2nd round ceiling means they need to take a risk on a guy with significant injury history like Griffin now. I'd rather have someone who fits Mitchell's and to a lesser degree Gobert's timeline in Aaron Gordon for example, who's similar to the Griffin model but not as good, yet is only 23 yrs old and is still developing. He also has a frontloaded contract so that if it doesn't work out he only costs $16 mil in his final year vs a $39 mil player option for Griffin in his final year.

A deal for Griffin or Love locks the Jazz into competing over the next 2 - 3 years and if it doesn't work out (e.g. injuries) then you're trying to retool around a Gobert who is approaching the wrong side of 30 and a max contract Mitchell in his prime. If you were going to do that deal you would want to be damn sure that their health and medical info checks out and you're confident in them remaining healthy while also banking on their play to not significantly decline.

I think a really good example of what I'm trying to say is happening in Philly right now with Butler. Dude has injury history, doesn't fit the timeline of the other two young stars, and it's a real debate about whether or not it was the right move.

I'm not opposed to this but that model of having 5 really solid guys and a sturdy bench worked 1 time. And I think that team was still plenty better than RG-DM-AG-JI-Rubio + DE, JC, KK, RO would be. That's 7 really good players and 1 superstar (Rudy) and Dante.

They need more than Gordon or Tobias or Middleton. Harris and a better point guard would be a fun team to watch though, and give me enough hope at times.

 

[Sandman822]

I'm not opposed to this but that model of having 5 really solid guys and a sturdy bench worked 1 time. And I think that team was still plenty better than RG-DM-AG-JI-Rubio + DE, JC, KK, RO would be. That's 7 really good players and 1 superstar (Rudy) and Dante.

They need more than Gordon or Tobias or Middleton. Harris and a better point guard would be a fun team to watch though, and give me enough hope at times.

So you think Griffin is one of those guys that would really put the Jazz over the top? Because I don't really think that's the case at all tbh which is why I suggested Gordon as an example instead.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

So you think Griffin is one of those guys that would really put the Jazz over the top? Because I don't really think that's the case at all tbh which is why I suggested Gordon as an example instead.

I dunno man, I wouldnt argue that Kawhi would put them over the top. With Blake I think they pick up a much needed go to scorer and a willing passer. The offense would look different and it's hard to say how it would work out. I think out of the field of who is hypothetically gettable that BG (who is also a long shot to trade for) is a reasonable target. He would move the needle as much as anyone the FO can acquire.

 

[campaignist]

I think Griffin would absolutely thrive here and solve a bunch of our problems. The contract really is a problem though.

 

[Jingled]

I'm 100% on board with going after Griffin. I don't know if he's gettable but with that contract you have to think it might be possible.

 

[Sandman822]

I dunno man, I wouldnt argue that Kawhi would put them over the top. With Blake I think they pick up a much needed go to scorer and a willing passer. The offense would look different and it's hard to say how it would work out. I think out of the field of who is hypothetically gettable that BG (who is also a long shot to trade for) is a reasonable target. He would move the needle as much as anyone the FO can acquire.

Kawhi would absolutely put Utah over the top. You add arguably the best perimeter defense in basketball with the best defensive C in basketball while simultaneously giving Utah an elite 3 level scoring threat to go with Mitchell and ease the load on him and Utah is a perenniel contender. Shame he won't come to Utah because the Jazz would be scary good with him, same with Durant too but for slightly different reasons.

I just question whether BG is a guy who can put a team over the top as he's been the kind of guy his entire career who puts up fantastic raw numbers but doesn't really seem to make his teammates that much better and his teams generally underperform relative to expectations... Like he had some great teams in LAC yet they were never able to make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs (basically where we're at now), and now in his first full season with Detroit in a top heavy East he can't even get them to a playoff spot over teams like the Nets/Heat/Hornets/Magic right now.

Maybe Detroit comes alive and goes on a run to get back into the picture but right now the results aren't great, and while Pistons fans will tell you that Blake has been great and everyone else is a dumpster fire it's all too common of a theme for Griffin's career that he plays great yet the team doesn't live up to expectations.

I do agree that the Jazz aren't really in a position to lure in any big time FA that would really move the needle which is why I think the Jazz would be wise to target a young promising player that still has room to grow and potentially turn into a piece that becomes a needle mover over bring in a guy who is physically declining on an albatross deal that could really hamstring the team down the road if it doesn't work out, and I think they know that too (e.g. trading up to get Mitchell).

 

[Shad]

A big LOL to the people that think Aaron Gordon would be better here than Blake Griffin. He's averaging 25-8-5 this season, can get to the hoop at will, and can even post up or spot up for 3. It wouldn't take me 1 second to trade favors and exum for that.

 

[Shad]

I'm not saying he's having a bad season, I'm saying that the contract scares me a little bit with his age and injury history. No different to KLove in my mind, if you can get either one of those guys and they're healthy for most of their contract then it's a no brainer but I think there's enough significant injury history for both of those guys where you really need to re-evaluate if the risk is worth the benefit of getting one of those guys.

I think Griffin deserves a ton of credit for being able to change his game to be much less reliant on his athleticism though, I wouldn't have thought that he would become a respectable 3pt shooter for example.

You're worried about Blake's injury history and we have/had guys made out of glass. We also have people on this forum clamoring for parker

 

[Rubashov]

Big D is just cooling his jets until the playoffs...

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Blake is an all nba talent and he’s paid like an all nba talent. We can afford his deal... honestly Middleton’s next deal and Harris’ next deal may be similar in number and both are inferior players.

If he’s healthy he’d make us close to a contender... if gs is healthy no one is beating them... I don’t think Blake is available until maybe this offseason.

 

[Douchebag K]

Favs is a good player and we should hold onto him until Pascal Siakam, the ultimate match for Quin's system, becomes available in 2020. Yes, more so than any of the players(i.e. Mirotic, Tobias, etc) mentioned on this forum. Him+Rudy would truly elevate our defense to championship contending level.

dude he wont be available Toronto aint letting him go

 

[LoPo]

Blake is an all nba talent and he’s paid like an all nba talent. We can afford his deal... honestly Middleton’s next deal and Harris’ next deal may be similar in number and both are inferior players.

If he’s healthy he’d make us close to a contender...

Exactly what I have been saying. Great post.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Kawhi would absolutely put Utah over the top. You add arguably the best perimeter defense in basketball with the best defensive C in basketball while simultaneously giving Utah an elite 3 level scoring threat to go with Mitchell and ease the load on him and Utah is a perenniel contender. Shame he won't come to Utah because the Jazz would be scary good with him, same with Durant too but for slightly different reasons.

I just question whether BG is a guy who can put a team over the top as he's been the kind of guy his entire career who puts up fantastic raw numbers but doesn't really seem to make his teammates that much better and his teams generally underperform relative to expectations... Like he had some great teams in LAC yet they were never able to make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs (basically where we're at now), and now in his first full season with Detroit in a top heavy East he can't even get them to a playoff spot over teams like the Nets/Heat/Hornets/Magic right now.

Maybe Detroit comes alive and goes on a run to get back into the picture but right now the results aren't great, and while Pistons fans will tell you that Blake has been great and everyone else is a dumpster fire it's all too common of a theme for Griffin's career that he plays great yet the team doesn't live up to expectations.

I do agree that the Jazz aren't really in a position to lure in any big time FA that would really move the needle which is why I think the Jazz would be wise to target a young promising player that still has room to grow and potentially turn into a piece that becomes a needle mover over bring in a guy who is physically declining on an albatross deal that could really hamstring the team down the road if it doesn't work out, and I think they know that too (e.g. trading up to get Mitchell).

Anthony Davis is a pretty damn good player. He's never carried a team out of the 2nd round and has only made the playoffs twice. Yet he's in the MVP discussion.

 

[jom2003]

dude he wont be available Toronto aint letting him go

Unless Kawhi walks and they go full rebuild. Then there's no incentive for them to throw everything to keep a role player. Unlikely but more realistic than getting Blake, Kawhi, Davis, etc. But the most realistic option of them all is to draft a player like DeAndre Hunter and develop our own “Siakam”.

 

[stitches]

I think Griffin would absolutely thrive here and solve a bunch of our problems. The contract really is a problem though.

The contract is a problem only if you think we can get someone better/comparable but on smaller contract instead. At the end of the day we will have to choose where to put our money and we have until the summer of 2021 to do it(when we have to pay Mitchell and Gobert and this will make it impossible to add high end FAs ). This is me serving as a bit of a devil's advocate, because I'm not sure I want Griffin, but it's worth noting the reality of our FA/trade assets situation.

 

[Sandman822]

Anthony Davis is a pretty damn good player. He's never carried a team out of the 2nd round and has only made the playoffs twice. Yet he's in the MVP discussion.

AD has also never had the opportunity to play with a player anywhere near the caliber of Chris Paul and has proven he can drag a Pelicans team to the playoffs by himself before in the Western conference. The starting roster around AD that year was Jrue Holiday (not the same caliber player he is today), Omer Asik, Quincy Pondexter and Eric Gordon. Also last time I checked the MVP race was a clear two horse race between Giannis and Harden, I don't think Davis is seriously in the discussion this year. iirc he got himself into the conversation late in last season's MVP race because he was putting up some stupid ASB numbers like 40 and 12 a game.

I think there are some valid questions around AD and his ability to create his own shot consistently, but he's an all world wrecker on the defensive end when locked in and he's an elite PnR threat. Griffin's offense speaks for itself and defensively he's actually pretty good on the perimeter, but he's a below average interior defender.

You're worried about Blake's injury history and we have/had guys made out of glass. We also have people on this forum clamoring for parker

There's a big difference between Dante Exum getting hurt on a $9.6 mil deal that is flippable or Raul Neto constantly getting hurt on a $2.1 mil contract that's not guaranteed next year vs Blake Griffin getting hurt on a deal with 4 years left including a final year at the $39 mil mark. You can work around guys getting paid role player money being injured, you can't really work around the guy who would be getting paid the most on the team being injured.

I understand the appeal in Griffin and he does project to fit very well on this Jazz group, but if Detroit were to make him available I would hope the Jazz do all of their due diligence to get the full medical background history on him because if I'm commiting up to $39 mil a year for this guy into his early to mid 30s and making him the highest paid player on the roster, I'm going to need to make sure that we're going to be able to get more than the 58 games or so he's averaged per season since the 14/15 season to make him worth that deal.

 

[Sandman822]

Unless Kawhi walks and they go full rebuild. Then there's no incentive for them to throw everything to keep a role player. Unlikely but more realistic than getting Blake, Kawhi, Davis, etc. But the most realistic option of them all is to draft a player like DeAndre Hunter and develop our own “Siakam”.

Getting Siakam is not "more realistic" than getting Blake lol. He isn't leaving Toronto and if you think he's only a role player then I'm not sure how much Raptors basketball you've watch this season because he's clearly better than just a role player at age 24. To me he reminds me a little bit of Draymond Green in the sense that he's a guy who's full impact won't show up on the box score, but when you watch him play you'll see that he's an important piece to the team as the 3rd best guy. If you removed Draymond Green's playmaking ability and nerfed his defense a bit but instead gave him elite scoring efficiency you'd have Pascal Siakam.

 

[NAOS]

AD has also never had the opportunity to play with a player anywhere near the caliber of Chris Paul and has proven he can drag a Pelicans team to the playoffs by himself before in the Western conference. The starting roster around AD that year was Jrue Holiday (not the same caliber player he is today), Omer Asik, Quincy Pondexter and Eric Gordon. Also last time I checked the MVP race was a clear two horse race between Giannis and Harden, I don't think Davis is seriously in the discussion this year. iirc he got himself into the conversation late in last season's MVP race because he was putting up some stupid ASB numbers like 40 and 12 a game.

I think there are some valid questions around AD and his ability to create his own shot consistently, but he's an all world wrecker on the defensive end when locked in and he's an elite PnR threat. Griffin's offense speaks for itself and defensively he's actually pretty good on the perimeter, but he's a below average interior defender.

There's a big difference between Dante Exum getting hurt on a $9.6 mil deal that is flippable or Raul Neto constantly getting hurt on a $2.1 mil contract that's not guaranteed next year vs Blake Griffin getting hurt on a deal with 4 years left including a final year at the $39 mil mark. You can work around guys getting paid role player money being injured, you can't really work around the guy who would be getting paid the most on the team being injured.

I understand the appeal in Griffin and he does project to fit very well on this Jazz group, but if Detroit were to make him available I would hope the Jazz do all of their due diligence to get the full medical background history on him because if I'm commiting up to $39 mil a year for this guy into his early to mid 30s and making him the highest paid player on the roster, I'm going to need to make sure that we're going to be able to get more than the 58 games or so he's averaged per season since the 14/15 season to make him worth that deal.

Three things:
1. You don’t think the Jazz would do their due diligence on all matters when it comes to acquiring a player that would become a franchise cornerstone. Cmon.
2. You bet your booties that they’d put BG on the balance beam, too.
3. BG was absolutely pivotal in turning around and changing the culture of the NBA’s worst franchise... owned by Donald ****ing Sterling. Put some respect in his check, eh?

 

[NAOS]

Unless Kawhi walks and they go full rebuild. Then there's no incentive for them to throw everything to keep a role player. Unlikely but more realistic than getting Blake, Kawhi, Davis, etc. But the most realistic option of them all is to draft a player like DeAndre Hunter and develop our own “Siakam”.

Lol. You’ve just been added to the “night end up on the ignore list soon” list.