We all love Favors, but...

[Sandman822]

Three things:
1. You don’t think the Jazz would do their due diligence on all matters when it comes to acquiring a player that would become a franchise cornerstone. Cmon.
2. You bet your booties that they’d put BG on the balance beam, too.
3. BG was absolutely pivotal in turning around and changing the culture of the NBA’s worst franchise... owned by Donald ****ing Sterling. Put some respect in his check, eh?

I mean I would expect them to do it since they're one of the better organisations in the NBA, I guess my point in saying that is to emphasis the risk of bringing in a historically injury prone guy on a super max deal. People seem to be forgetting how often he missed games in his career because he's played in almost every game for the Pistons this year.

Also I'd argue that while BG and his dunks made the Clippers relevant again, CP3 was the driving force in turning that franchise into a perenniel playoff team and Doc Rivers was more responsible for the winning culture than either one of those dudes. There's a reason why the Clippers are still relevant even after both of those guys left/got traded.

 

[NAOS]

I mean I would expect them to do it since they're one of the better organisations in the NBA, I guess my point in saying that is to emphasis the risk of bringing in a historically injury prone guy on a super max deal. People seem to be forgetting how often he missed games in his career because he's played in almost every game for the Pistons this year.

Also I'd argue that while BG and his dunks made the Clippers relevant again, CP3 was the driving force in turning that franchise into a perenniel playoff team and Doc Rivers was more responsible for the winning culture than either one of those dudes. There's a reason why the Clippers are still relevant even after both of those guys left/got traded.

Neither of those dudes sniff LAC and Sterling without the presence of BG. Also, you’re still under-rating BG.

 

[Sandman822]

Neither of those dudes sniff LAC and Sterling without the presence of BG. Also, you’re still under-rating BG.

I probably am underrating Griffin but I don't think he's the big difference maker that puts the Jazz over the top like others think he is either.

 

[Shad]

AD has also never had the opportunity to play with a player anywhere near the caliber of Chris Paul and has proven he can drag a Pelicans team to the playoffs by himself before in the Western conference. The starting roster around AD that year was Jrue Holiday (not the same caliber player he is today), Omer Asik, Quincy Pondexter and Eric Gordon. Also last time I checked the MVP race was a clear two horse race between Giannis and Harden, I don't think Davis is seriously in the discussion this year. iirc he got himself into the conversation late in last season's MVP race because he was putting up some stupid ASB numbers like 40 and 12 a game.

I think there are some valid questions around AD and his ability to create his own shot consistently, but he's an all world wrecker on the defensive end when locked in and he's an elite PnR threat. Griffin's offense speaks for itself and defensively he's actually pretty good on the perimeter, but he's a below average interior defender.

There's a big difference between Dante Exum getting hurt on a $9.6 mil deal that is flippable or Raul Neto constantly getting hurt on a $2.1 mil contract that's not guaranteed next year vs Blake Griffin getting hurt on a deal with 4 years left including a final year at the $39 mil mark. You can work around guys getting paid role player money being injured, you can't really work around the guy who would be getting paid the most on the team being injured.

I understand the appeal in Griffin and he does project to fit very well on this Jazz group, but if Detroit were to make him available I would hope the Jazz do all of their due diligence to get the full medical background history on him because if I'm commiting up to $39 mil a year for this guy into his early to mid 30s and making him the highest paid player on the roster, I'm going to need to make sure that we're going to be able to get more than the 58 games or so he's averaged per season since the 14/15 season to make him worth that deal.

Wait, what about Exum at 11 mill? Parker at 20 mill? Neto at 2? Blake is better than all of those dudes combined

 

[Sandman822]

Wait, what about Exum at 11 mill? Parker at 20 mill? Neto at 2? Blake is better than all of those dudes combined

Well yeah, but if they're all hurt then they're just as useless as each other, except Griffin gets paid more than all of those guys combined. I'm not trying to say those guys are better than Griffin at basketball lol

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

At PF, I agree with you 100%. At C for what we ask of that position in our offense and defense, I think Udoh is just as good. Favors is definitely the better overall player, but I don't think the drop off is that big at all when backing up Gobert.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

The drop off is huge. One can be a starter, and the other you cant even trust as a part of a 3rd string. Strength in bench is what wins games. Look at all the teams benches that are sitting under .400 at this point in the season. Then look at the +.500 teams. The difference is Winning teams don't rely on an incapable bench. Think to win, your only seeing whats in front of you. Go cheer for an Eastern conference team.

 

[LoPo]

The drop off is huge. One can be a starter, and the other you cant even trust as a part of a 3rd string. Strength in bench is what wins games. Look at all the teams benches that are sitting under .400 at this point in the season. Then look at the +.500 teams. The difference is Winning teams don't rely on an incapable bench. Think to win, your only seeing whats in front of you. Go cheer for an Eastern conference team.

When we hit the playoffs, Favors will play less and less at PF against really good teams. So really, he becomes a really good backup C. My personal opinion is that Udoh isnt that much of a downgrade at C compared to Favors. I also believe that a PF upgrade makes us a contender. I don't want to lose Favors but I would rather compete with the contenders.

Trust me, I get the whole depth is important yada yada thing. I also know that playoffs series are won by teams who have a really good core unit of 7-8 guys. When we hit the playoffs, our weaknesses at PF and PG will get exposed. Our primary rotation of Rubio, Exum, DM, Ingles, Korver, Crowder, Royce, Favors and Gobert is lacking another proven scorer. Of those 9, Favors is the guy who will be left on the bench against Golden State unless either Gobert gets hurt or in foul trouble.

Paying $17 million for Gobert insurance might be considered wise, but every dreamer plan of summer 2019 only happens by letting Favors walk. If we are willing to do that this summer, why should we be afraid to do it right now?

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

When we hit the playoffs, Favors will play less and less at PF against really good teams. So really, he becomes a really good backup C. My personal opinion is that Udoh isnt that much of a downgrade at C compared to Favors. I also believe that a PF upgrade makes us a contender. I don't want to lose Favors but I would rather compete with the contenders.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

Is this guy forreal?

 

[LoPo]

Is this guy forreal?

Yep. Do the research. Favors played only 130 minutes over the 5 games against Houston and 4 games against Golden State COMBINED. Last year, in 90 minutes against Houston over 5 games, he scored 28 points and got 14 rebounds. That's it.

So unless Gobert gets injured or in foul trouble, he isn't all that valuable unless you think it's wise to pay a guy $17 million a year for that role.

Its funny - I get flack for questioning Favors yet all these people all over this forum are drooling over Blake, Tobias, Otto and others. The only way to get those guys is to let Favors go for all the reasons I have been saying for years now.



Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[jom2003]

Getting Siakam is not "more realistic" than getting Blake lol. He isn't leaving Toronto and if you think he's only a role player then I'm not sure how much Raptors basketball you've watch this season because he's clearly better than just a role player at age 24. To me he reminds me a little bit of Draymond Green in the sense that he's a guy who's full impact won't show up on the box score, but when you watch him play you'll see that he's an important piece to the team as the 3rd best guy. If you removed Draymond Green's playmaking ability and nerfed his defense a bit but instead gave him elite scoring efficiency you'd have Pascal Siakam.

Yeah except I don't think Pistons will take anything less than Mitchell/Golbert for Griffin. Maybe Joe + picks but even that I think it's a bit too much for DL.

Siakam is a great player don't get me wrong. If you watch the video I posted, you'll see that I agree fully with everything you said. Siakam surely is not a role player for playoff teams and he is playing at an all-star level this year. But on a lottery/rebuilding team, his value will depreciate and his weakness will be exposed. Draymond will be an example if he ever decides to leave GSW for money. Thats why I think amongst all the stars that Warriors have, Draymond is the last guy they want to keep.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Yep. Do the research. Favors played only 130 minutes over the 5 games against Houston and 4 games against Golden State COMBINED. Last year, in 90 minutes against Houston over 5 games, he scored 28 points and got 14 rebounds. That's it.

So unless Gobert gets injured or in foul trouble, he isn't all that valuable unless you think it's wise to pay a guy $17 million a year for that role.

Its funny - I get flack for questioning Favors yet all these people all over this forum are drooling over Blake, Tobias, Otto and others. The only way to get those guys is to let Favors go for all the reasons I have been saying for years now.



Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

Now you're just making stuff up. He was 148 ortg/101 drtg against GSW FFS. +15.4, 15.3 & 9.3 in 97 minutes, and Utah went 3-1.

You catch flack for saying stupid **** like Udoh isnt much of a downgrade. Favors has a 20.5 PER, 61 ts%, and 3.9 BPM. You're being dumb.

 

[Harambe]

As much as I dislike Blake Griffin(and I can't pinpoint why exactly), I think if Griffin could learn the system, he would be a good fit.

Don't really like a $30M price tag... but I don't wanna give anyone $30M a year.

 

[LoPo]

Now you're just making stuff up. He was 148 ortg/101 drtg against GSW FFS. +15.4, 15.3 & 9.3 in 97 minutes, and Utah went 3-1.

You catch flack for saying stupid **** like Udoh isnt much of a downgrade. Favors has a 20.5 PER, 61 ts%, and 3.9 BPM. You're being dumb.

Playoffs toilet. Playoffs. Go look at the last two 2nd round series against teams that live small. Favors was primarily Gobert's backup.

It's a damn shame Favors signed such a big deal. If he was making less than $10, we should just keep him. Instead, I think we have to move on.



Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Playoffs toilet. Playoffs. Go look at the last two 2nd round series against teams that live small. Favors was primarily Gobert's backup.

It's a damn shame Favors signed such a big deal. If he was making less than $10, we should just keep him. Instead, I think we have to move on.



Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

Utah didn't play GSW in the playoffs. Who had a good showing against HOW? Exum's one game? They crushed Utah.

 

[LoPo]

Utah didn't play GSW in the playoffs. Who had a good showing against HOW? Exum's one game? They crushed Utah.

Please read man.

The last two years we have made the 2nd round with Favors and Gobert both healthy. In 2017 against GS, Favors played something like 42 minutes over 4 games. Last year (2018) against Houston, he played 90 minutes over 5 games.

So he plays less than 15 minutes per game. And remember this - we didn't even have Crowder or Korver against GS and didn't have Korver vs Houston. I fully expect Favors to be Gobert's backup this postseason once we play a team without Melo.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

Crowder, Ingles, Thabo, and Korver are at the end of their primes. Gobert, Rubio and Favors are in their primes.

and Mitchell is playing on a rookie contract. Jazz will have to go all-in pretty soon, within the next 2 years for sure.