2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

Good point about how much they could offer, but then again, if they knew he was worth more and they were willing to pay more later, why waste his time with a potentially insulting number? Why get to the point where they had to stop contract negotiations?

Probably an irrelevant point...


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Because maybe he signs it... it isn’t insulting to say “here is the most the cba allows us to offer we’d like to keep you”. Look at Dinwiddie... he locked in early at a number below his future market... they offered the most they could. They were limited by cba so it’s not an insult at all.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm out on Hardaway until his contract is done. He has 6th MOTY ceiling to me with his streaky and inconsistent shooting, wouldn't want to pay him starters money.

I'd be shocked if TJ Warren was really available and if he was Thabo and Grayson wouldn't be enough. Exum would likely be the guy you'd have to part with to grab Warren and iirc I don't think Igor thought highly of Exum in his time here.

I’m sad that I advocated for Tim early in the season... it’s a no go for me but I do think injury is part of his issue.

 

[MDAV28]

I disagree. Favors has almost zero advantages over PJ Tucker who is a scrappy lil sob who would torture Gobert if we didn't spread him out of the lane. Plus, a switch of Favors on Harden seems like a nightmare. Gobert has a tough enough matchup as it is.

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Yeah that’s not true at all. I take Faves over Tucker matchup.

 

[LoPo]

Yeah that’s not true at all. I take Faves over Tucker matchup.

Against Houston just this last playoffs, Favors averaged 18 minutes per game while PJ Tucker played 33.5 minutes per game.

Considering that Gobert averaged 34 minutes per game in that series, it's pretty obvious that Favors pretty much backed up Gobert in that series.

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[MDAV28]

Against Houston just this last playoffs, Favors averaged 18 minutes per game while PJ Tucker played 33.5 minutes per game.

Considering that Gobert averaged 34 minutes per game in that series, it's pretty obvious that Favors pretty much backed up Gobert in that series.

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Yeah that was my point. If Rubio didn't get hurt I think Faves plays more. Needed more shot creation down the line from Burks/Exum.

 

[LoPo]

Yeah that was my point. If Rubio didn't get hurt I think Faves plays more. Needed more shot creation down the line from Burks/Exum.

I don't see that correlation at all. Favors couldn't switch on Paul or Harden as well as Crowder and O'Neale. Rubio had nothing to do with that. If anything, Rubio might have limited Favors more but there is nothing that said Rubio would lead to more effectiveness by Favors.

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[Sandman822]

You can't play both Favs and Gobert against a team like the Rockets who 90% of the time are looking to get one of those guys to switch onto two of the better ISO scorers in the league in Harden and CP3 and let those guys attack Favs/Gobert whenever they want, because on the other end you can't abuse the mismatch of Favs on Tucker because Gobert is taking up the real estate that Favs would need to work in, which also means that Capela is on hand to help defensively without really having to leave his man.

It's not a matter of not having Rubio means that they needed more shot creation on the wings, you simply can't play the two together against a team like the Rockets. Same applies against the Warriors when they pull out lineups with Green at the 5 or if Boogie is at the 5 and KD is at the 4, and those two teams were the championship standard last season.

 

[MDAV28]

I don't see that correlation at all. Favors couldn't switch on Paul or Harden as well as Crowder and O'Neale. Rubio had nothing to do with that. If anything, Rubio might have limited Favors more but there is nothing that said Rubio would lead to more effectiveness by Favors.

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I didn't explain that well. Jazz were having trouble creating with Mitch as the sole creator. Burks played a lot more (and played well) and in a way he took Faves minutes he was playing at PF. Favors can hold his ground decently. I mean there's a reason we still start and play him and Gobert together, and that's because there are benefits, specifically defensively and in offense PNR. I think Faves plays much more if Rubio didn't go down, especially considering the starting lineup was amazing in the regular season and playoffs. If you forgot we weren't all the competitive in the Rox series.

 

[MDAV28]

You can't play both Favs and Gobert against a team like the Rockets who 90% of the time are looking to get one of those guys to switch onto two of the better ISO scorers in the league in Harden and CP3 and let those guys attack Favs/Gobert whenever they want, because on the other end you can't abuse the mismatch of Favs on Tucker because Gobert is taking up the real estate that Favs would need to work in, which also means that Capela is on hand to help defensively without really having to leave his man.

It's not a matter of not having Rubio means that they needed more shot creation on the wings, you simply can't play the two together against a team like the Rockets. Same applies against the Warriors when they pull out lineups with Green at the 5 or if Boogie is at the 5 and KD is at the 4, and those two teams were the championship standard last season.

You can (in limited minutes per usual), and you don't post up Faves. That's playing into what the Rockets want. You obliterate them inside and PNR them to death. Switching onto those players is tough on any defender. Quin has laid out this exact thing during the Rocket series

 

[Sandman822]

You can (in limited minutes per usual), and you don't post up Faves. That's playing into what the Rockets want. You obliterate them inside and PNR them to death. Switching onto those players is tough on any defender. Quin has laid out this exact thing during the Rocket series

I'm confused. You're down with wanting Favs/Gobert on the court together yet you don't want to post either dude up but you just want to run PnRs at a team that literally switches all their perimeter guys while simultaneously having at least one of Gobert or Favors close to the paint every time?

 

[MDAV28]

I'm confused. You're down with wanting Favs/Gobert on the court together yet you don't want to post either dude up but you just want to run PnRs at a team that literally switches all their perimeter guys while simultaneously having at least one of Gobert or Favors close to the paint every time?

Have you watched the Jazz starting lineup?

 

[Sandman822]

Have you watched the Jazz starting lineup?

I have, and I also know that when you replace Favors with Crowder (which is our most played lineup btw) that the lineup of Rubio/Mitchell/Ingles/Crowder/Gobert is one of the best lineups in the NBA net rating wise.

In a matchup against the Rockets the Jazz can literally get away with playing their best lineup with no real losses defensively (if anything I think they get better against the Rockets offense defensively). I don't understand why you would want to go away from that lineup in a 7 game series because Favors starts most regular season games.

 

[LoPo]

Going back to rumors...

Sacramento would love Barnes. Interesting how they are both fighting for a playoff spot and both lack a 2019 1st rounder. Still think it might be a smart deal for Dallas to trade Barnes if they can.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...re-harrison-barnes-at-trade-deadline.amp.html

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[MDAV28]

I have, and I also know that when you replace Favors with Crowder (which is our most played lineup btw) that the lineup of Rubio/Mitchell/Ingles/Crowder/Gobert is one of the best lineups in the NBA net rating wise.

In a matchup against the Rockets the Jazz can literally get away with playing their best lineup with no real losses defensively (if anything I think they get better against the Rockets offense defensively). I don't understand why you would want to go away from that lineup in a 7 game series because Favors starts most regular season games.

It is, but the starting lineup is also positive and is one of the best defensive lineups in the NBA. I'm by no means saying Favors/Gobert has been better than Crowder/Gobert. I'm simply saying it's not a bad lineup like it's made out to be.

By no means would I ever go away from that lineup. My point was that Favors played less minutes in that series because Rubio got hurt, and Jazz clearly needed help on the wing. Which is also something straight from Quin's mouth in a postgame (I think when he sat Faves)

 

[Miggs]

If Barnes opts out (I suspect he will), he makes a lot of sense for us at a far cheaper price than Harris, Middleton, and a few other guys we’re never going to get anyway imo.

There’s a lot to like there. 18.1 points, 40.3% from 3, 84.2% from the line. 3/4 versatility. An underrated defender iirc.

I wonder what his price tag would be.

 

[Sandman822]

It is, but the starting lineup is also positive and is one of the best defensive lineups in the NBA. I'm by no means saying Favors/Gobert has been better than Crowder/Gobert. I'm simply saying it's not a bad lineup like it's made out to be.

By no means would I ever go away from that lineup. My point was that Favors played less minutes in that series because Rubio got hurt, and Jazz clearly needed help on the wing.

But I already explained why it doesn't work and your reponses were "run tons of PnR and destroy them inside" followed by "have you seen our starting lineup?".

Favs/Gobert doesn't work in a 7 game series against a team like the Rockets because they're targets for switches while also getting in each others way offensively to punish the mismatch, and if the counter to that is to run a ton of PnRs at them inside then you're simply better off just putting Crowder out there instead of Favors because he can space to the 3pt line while Favors can't. Rubio's injury doesn't change any of that, the latest stretch of Mitchell at PG should be evidence as to why - e.g. Mitchell at point, 3 wing shooters, and Gobert is a better option against a team like the Rockets than Mitchell at point/2 wing shooters/Favs + Gobert because of the added spacing and having more mobile wing defenders to cover more potential switches instead of Favs who is great defending the interior but is poor on the perimeter.

 

[MDAV28]

But I already explained why it doesn't work and your reponses were "run tons of PnR and destroy them inside" followed by "have you seen our starting lineup?".

Favs/Gobert doesn't work in a 7 game series against a team like the Rockets because they're targets for switches while also getting in each others way offensively to punish the mismatch, and if the counter to that is to run a ton of PnRs at them inside then you're simply better off just putting Crowder out there instead of Favors because he can space to the 3pt line while Favors can't. Rubio's injury doesn't change any of that, the latest stretch of Mitchell at PG should be evidence as to why - e.g. Mitchell at point, 3 wing shooters, and Gobert is a better option against a team like the Rockets than Mitchell at point/2 wing shooters/Favs + Gobert because of the added spacing and having more mobile wing defenders to cover more potential switches instead of Favs who is great defending the interior but is poor on the perimeter.

Jazz have had a lot of success, even against the Rox slipping screens. Abusing the interior means even if Cappela came over to help Gobert is there for a dump off or putback. I promise you, watch the Rockets games. Favors getting abused on a switch (at least more than anybody else was), or the spacing being off wasn't the big problem. The problem was keying in on Mitch and nobody else being able to create. Exum and Burks had wonderful creating games in game 2, coincidentally the only game the Jazz won.

I'll reiterate, I'm not comparing the lineups, but simply pointing out that the Favors/Gobert duo does have value.

 

[LoPo]

If Barnes opts out (I suspect he will), he makes a lot of sense for us at a far cheaper price than Harris, Middleton, and a few other guys we’re never going to get anyway imo.

There’s a lot to like there. 18.1 points, 40.3% from 3, 84.2% from the line. 3/4 versatility. An underrated defender iirc.

I wonder what his price tag would be.

I have always liked Barnes (maybe it's because we should have had him but those GS bitch asses tanked). I don't think he will walk from $25 million next year.

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[Bodhi]

If Barnes opts out (I suspect he will), he makes a lot of sense for us at a far cheaper price than Harris, Middleton, and a few other guys we’re never going to get anyway imo.

There’s a lot to like there. 18.1 points, 40.3% from 3, 84.2% from the line. 3/4 versatility. An underrated defender iirc.

I wonder what his price tag would be.

Not trying to pick nits, but you wonder what his price tag will be but say he will be far cheaper than Harris and Middleton?

I’d bet it’s a lot closer than you think.

 

[MDAV28]

Couple examples: