Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

[Miggs]

I don’t know. In some ways it gets more complicated. We’ve got 10.5, 8, 4.5, 3, and 10 months. There’s never downtime and always something. That’s usually because the youngest two, though, but then the older kids have different demands, basketball practice, other stuff.

But I was thinking about your vasectomy thread the other day and wondering how you’re doing. Is the pain gone?

Pain is pretty much gone. Some little **** here or there but basically gone.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

the other 25 All-Stars in Charlotte. Then again, maybe he wasn’t joking too much. The two-way recruiting has already begun, as he admitted following Sunday’s game. “It was really crazy,” Beal said. “A lot of guys were coming to talk to me and asking me how I feel. The recruiting process is really going all right. It’s going all right. I’m trying. This is new for me. So, I’m definitely getting some ears and seeing where guys’ minds are at.”"

Maybe it’s a good thing Rudy and DM were snubbed. Lol

My plan? To get through this day with my sanity. I’m solo with three rascals 4 and under.

Betting odds on who survives, Wes or the rascals?

Lol me too. 3 of em running around here. Why do they close school for Presidents Day again?

I'm just trying to my best to stay positive about summer moves despite a growing feeling of negativity.

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Thank god I have no kids. Dodged a bullet there. Lol

Damn man. Sorry to hear that.

3 kids in daycare. Wow..... And all those places seem to do is price gouge. I swear they are little monopolies.

Vasectomies suck. Still have pain with mine from time to time. They completely botch yours?

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It’s comforting to know there will never be a need to get a vasectomy. My nuts are in it for the long-haul baby!!

 

[LogGrad98]

I think favors is sorely under-valued here. I expect him to get a lot of buzz. I cannot imagine people thinking he will take a pay cut to stay here. If we do re-sign him it will definitely be for more money, and if not he will be a prime free agent. Not many players offer what he does in terms of defense, rebounding, decent offense, and generally always solid play. He isn't a top tier free agent but many teams will view him as a solid 2nd tier guy, so we won't get him to come back on the cheap.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think favors is sorely under-valued here. I expect him to get a lot of buzz. I cannot imagine people thinking he will take a pay cut to stay here. If we do re-sign him it will definitely be for more money, and if not he will be a prime free agent. Not many players offer what he does in terms of defense, rebounding, decent offense, and generally always solid play. He isn't a top tier free agent but many teams will view him as a solid 2nd tier guy, so we won't get him to come back on the cheap.

I like Favs and think he's undervalued a little. Here is the deal... if that was the view of him around the NBA we'd have more than a few offers lined up for him in trades. Dude has been on the block for 2 years and he's still here in part because his market is limited (like all non-shooting bigs). We have an option on his deal next year too... so that would have been really desirable.

If he gets more than around $10M per year my guess is it will be for a team that overpays for one-year... like we did... because they want space next year. Lakers/Clippers are teams I could see doing this. I don't think he'd settle for a lower number from us... in part because we have space and his caphold and there aren't other CBA related restrictions.

 

[LoPo]

I used to think Favors had a bunch of value around the league, but I'm not so sure. He has been available the last two trade deadlines and nobody came away with him. Of course we might have overvalued him, but if he was that much in demand, somebody probably would have met the asking price.

Around half the league has max level cap space this summer. I have a hard time believing any team would sacrifice most of that space for a guy like Favors.

Somebody name a team who would sign Favors to a $17 million deal this summer.

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[LogGrad98]

I like Favs and think he's undervalued a little. Here is the deal... if that was the view of him around the NBA we'd have more than a few offers lined up for him in trades. Dude has been on the block for 2 years and he's still here in part because his market is limited (like all non-shooting bigs). We have an option on his deal next year too... so that would have been really desirable.

If he gets more than around $10M per year my guess is it will be for a team that overpays for one-year... like we did... because they want space next year. Lakers/Clippers are teams I could see doing this. I don't think he'd settle for a lower number from us... in part because we have space and his caphold and there aren't other CBA related restrictions.

#1 how do you know we haven't had offers?

#2 how do you know he has been continually on the trading block?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

#1 how do you know we haven't had offers?

#2 how do you know he has been continually on the trading block?

#1 cuz I think we would have taken a good offer... a first with no long term salary likely could have had him imo.

#2 it ain't a secret... his name has been out there for 2 years...

Also, dude was a free agent last summer. No one beat down his door and offered a deal that beat a one year $17M offer from us. Even a 2 year deal that gave him control over the second year at like 13-14M is likely better than what we offered.

there is a limited market for players like him... there just is.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I used to think Favors had a bunch of value around the league, but I'm not so sure. He has been available the last two trade deadlines and nobody came away with him. Of course we might have overvalued him, but if he was that much in demand, somebody probably would have met the asking price.

Around half the league has max level cap space this summer. I have a hard time believing any team would sacrifice most of that space for a guy like Favors.

Somebody name a team who would sign Favors to a $17 million deal this summer.

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I could see him getting that for one year when a team misses on all long term options. Lakers, Clips, Dallas, maybe.

I think a smart team could offer him something in the 4/50M range and get some value out of that contract.

 

[LoPo]

I could see him getting that for one year when a team misses on all long term options. Lakers, Clips, Dallas, maybe.

I think a smart team could offer him something in the 4/50M range and get some value out of that contract.

Yep. Favors maybe gets a 1 year over pay, but long term no way.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

If we miss on Middleton, Harris, etc. I hope we pursue Julius Randle over guys like Niko.

Julius has gotten so much better and he's played for two teams not necessarily known for player development. Dude is a worker. He's shown progress with his jumper, but not sure he's ever anything other than a low volume 3 point shooter. The defense isn't great, but I think he can be passable next to Rudy. I like that he can create, is really efficient, and he's consistent. He's the rare guy that I think could be slightly undervalued in the FA market. I think he could really help us punish small ball, switch teams cuz he's such a handful in the paint.

If we replaced Ricky with a better shooter... even if it was more of a spot up shooter and not a creator... I think a lineup with Randle at the 4 could be super effective. I would guess he gets something in the neighborhood of 4/80M... in the same tier as Niko to me, but I think there is some upside there. If he worked with our group I think there is some real potential. I'm really intrigued even though he's kind of a throwback PF.

 

[LoPo]

If we miss on Middleton, Harris, etc. I hope we pursue Julius Randle over guys like Niko.

Julius has gotten so much better and he's played for two teams not necessarily known for player development. Dude is a worker. He's shown progress with his jumper, but not sure he's ever anything other than a low volume 3 point shooter. The defense isn't great, but I think he can be passable next to Rudy. I like that he can create, is really efficient, and he's consistent. He's the rare guy that I think could be slightly undervalued in the FA market. I think he could really help us punish small ball, switch teams cuz he's such a handful in the paint.

If we replaced Ricky with a better shooter... even if it was more of a spot up shooter and not a creator... I think a lineup with Randle at the 4 could be super effective. I would guess he gets something in the neighborhood of 4/80M... in the same tier as Niko to me, but I think there is some upside there. If he worked with our group I think there is some real potential. I'm really intrigued even though he's kind of a throwback PF.

I agree 100%.

Randle would do so well with our "catch the pass on the move" offense. He is a workhorse who is becoming a true triple threat player.

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[LogGrad98]

#1 cuz I think we would have taken a good offer... a first with no long term salary likely could have had him imo.

#2 it ain't a secret... his name has been out there for 2 years...

Also, dude was a free agent last summer. No one beat down his door and offered a deal that beat a one year $17M offer from us. Even a 2 year deal that gave him control over the second year at like 13-14M is likely better than what we offered.

there is a limited market for players like him... there just is.

So it's your opinion then. Fair enough.

 

[LoPo]

So it's your opinion then. Fair enough.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejno...-trade-rumors-favors-block-love-interest/amp/

Plenty of reputable sources quoted here saying the Jazz have him out there: https://hoopshype.com/storyline/derrick-favors-trade/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutch...ery-much-on-the-market-at-trade-deadline/amp/

The last two deadlines, he has been available. Not an opinion or every one of these team reporters are just lying.



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[Handlogten's Heros]

So it's your opinion then. Fair enough.

Parts of it are... the part where he was a free agent and found nothing better than our deal for one year and $17M that also causes him to lose control over his free agency this season is a fact. The team option is worth a couple million imo... so hypothetically he found nothing better than 1 year 15-16M on the market. He will get 4 for 40-50M this summer or a one year 15Mish deal... if we don't pick up his option.

If there was a team that would have offered a first without giving up bad salary I think we could have parlayed that package into Mike Conley (or maybe Tobias Harris).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I agree 100%.

Randle would do so well with our "catch the pass on the move" offense. He is a workhorse who is becoming a true triple threat player.

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I think he'd provide some spacing as a shooter, but if you stray from a guy like him he can attack closeouts or if you don't close he can get a running start on the drive and bury you.

The defense is likely the biggest issue, but he moves so well for a big guy... it could improve or maybe he can be more aggressive on the perimeter and allow Rudy to clean up his messes.

High TS% on a high usage and because his game is less reliant on shooting he is really consistent. He can handle and run some pick and roll which is obviously different than Favs.

I don't think Randle gets a max. His current situation isn't ideal. I think he's married, so not sure he's a big nightlife guy. I'm intrigued... I might put him at the top of the list after Harris and Middleton. I think Niko has a higher floor, but Randle is a little bigger swing with a potentially higher ceiling. Age also lines up with our other guys.

 

[LoPo]

I think he'd provide some spacing as a shooter, but if you stray from a guy like him he can attack closeouts or if you don't close he can get a running start on the drive and bury you.

The defense is likely the biggest issue, but he moves so well for a big guy... it could improve or maybe he can be more aggressive on the perimeter and allow Rudy to clean up his messes.

High TS% on a high usage and because his game is less reliant on shooting he is really consistent. He can handle and run some pick and roll which is obviously different than Favs.

I don't think Randle gets a max. His current situation isn't ideal. I think he's married, so not sure he's a big nightlife guy. I'm intrigued... I might put him at the top of the list after Harris and Middleton. I think Niko has a higher floor, but Randle is a little bigger swing with a potentially higher ceiling. Age also lines up with our other guys.

Yep.

I would offer Randle the type deal Aaron Gordon got last summer. It was a 4 year $76 million declining deal. Year 1 is $21.6, but year 4 is less than $16.5.

$21+ seems like a lot, but the last two years of the deal would be an absolute value when we start looking at new deals for Rudy and Donovan.

19-20 $21.6
20-21 $19.9
21-22 $18.2
22-23 $16.5



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[Handlogten's Heros]

Yep.

I would offer Randle the type deal Aaron Gordon got last summer. It was a 4 year $76 million declining deal. Year 1 is $21.6, but year 4 is less than $16.5.

$21+ seems like a lot, but the last two years of the deal would be an absolute value when we start looking at new deals for Rudy and Donovan.

19-20 $21.6
20-21 $19.9
21-22 $18.2
22-23 $16.5



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Not sure what his market will be... I could see him as an eye of the beholder type where some think he's worth 12-15M max and others think he's worth 27M.

If I had to guess right now 4/80-90 feels like it would get it done. No need to decline the offer... we could only get him with 5% per year declining anyway. It is a nice thought, but not necessary. If we got him at 21M to start you can offer 4/90 and you'd have 10M to add shooting at the wing or pg position. Danny Green, Wes Matthews, Reggie Bullock types are all likely in that range.

say the new starting lineup is
DM
Green
Ingles
Randle
Rudy

Guys like Exum, Royce, Jae, Korver off the bench maybe Allen or Bradley become something and our 2019 FRP... prolly need Udoh back at the minimum to backup Rudy... IDK that ain't bad.

You'd have the ability to make a decent trade using $25M of Exum Jae Korver (or Randle and whatever wing you sign). Or you can open up some space the following year with $19M in expirings and another small cap bump coming.

 

[fishonjazz]

If we miss on Middleton, Harris, etc. I hope we pursue Julius Randle over guys like Niko.

Julius has gotten so much better and he's played for two teams not necessarily known for player development. Dude is a worker. He's shown progress with his jumper, but not sure he's ever anything other than a low volume 3 point shooter. The defense isn't great, but I think he can be passable next to Rudy. I like that he can create, is really efficient, and he's consistent. He's the rare guy that I think could be slightly undervalued in the FA market. I think he could really help us punish small ball, switch teams cuz he's such a handful in the paint.

If we replaced Ricky with a better shooter... even if it was more of a spot up shooter and not a creator... I think a lineup with Randle at the 4 could be super effective. I would guess he gets something in the neighborhood of 4/80M... in the same tier as Niko to me, but I think there is some upside there. If he worked with our group I think there is some real potential. I'm really intrigued even though he's kind of a throwback PF.

His motor is elite

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[infection]

Regarding the market on Favors, he didn’t even meet with any other teams last year. You could perhaps argue that we could have gotten value for him in trades but opted not to, but last year we offered him for Niko and Chicago said no. Now, obviously they had no need for him, but if he’s having any kind of value that we’re talking about here, Chicago didn’t think they could flip him and essentially turn Niko into two seconds + whatever Favors fetches (this is before Cousins ruptures his Achilles so whoever is hiding out there in the word work to say that Niko went for a first rounder can keep lurking in this thread and find another post to make a stupid drive-by comment about).

 

[LoPo]

Not sure what his market will be... I could see him as an eye of the beholder type where some think he's worth 12-15M max and others think he's worth 27M.

If I had to guess right now 4/80-90 feels like it would get it done. No need to decline the offer... we could only get him with 5% per year declining anyway. It is a nice thought, but not necessary. If we got him at 21M to start you can offer 4/90 and you'd have 10M to add shooting at the wing or pg position. Danny Green, Wes Matthews, Reggie Bullock types are all likely in that range.

say the new starting lineup is
DM
Green
Ingles
Randle
Rudy

Guys like Exum, Royce, Jae, Korver off the bench maybe Allen or Bradley become something and our 2019 FRP... prolly need Udoh back at the minimum to backup Rudy... IDK that ain't bad.

You'd have the ability to make a decent trade using $25M of Exum Jae Korver (or Randle and whatever wing you sign). Or you can open up some space the following year with $19M in expirings and another small cap bump coming.

He is a very interesting case. He only got a full MLE deal last summer. I feel like NOLA or his home town Dallas will be willing to spend the most.

If we got him, I would try to lowball Rubio or go for a similar bench quality PG like Beverley, Bradley, Lin, etc. I have a lot of faith in O'Neale and some in Exum.

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