Time to trade millsap

[jimmy eat jazz]

Not yet. For now START MILLSAP.

This will give the youngens time to earn minutes and keep Millsap's stock high.

In my opinion, starting someone for the reason to keep his stock high is a bad reason. Start whoever gives you the best chance to win. Play whoever gives you the best chance to win. Unless, you are developing young talent and the goal is to win a year or two down the road.

I am not on the trade Milsap bandwagon. But I am on the start Favors bandwagon, or at least give him 30+ minutes bandwagon (assuming he can do that without fouling out). He's the future, a potential cornerstone, Milsap is and will always be a complementary player. Sooner or later, somethings gotta give and someone on the front line will get traded. I agree that there's no rush. But, damnit, put Favors in the frig'n game.

 

[Twin Towers]

https://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3jk4wor

Harris - Collison - Watson
Hamilton - Burks
Hayward - Miles - Evans
Favors - Kanter
Jefferson - Kanter - Okur - Fesenko

We get Indiana's 1st round draft pick next year. Top 8 protected or whatever is fair.

George Hill - AJ Price
Rush - George
Granger - George
Millsap - Hansbrough
Hibbert - Foster

 

[sepanol]

Trade Sap...do it now, before he goes back to the bench lowering his value. Jefferson is our best player and, of course, people here want to trade him instead of Sap...lol, wow.

he is not our best players just because he is the best scorer. He doesnt play as big as getting 14 p/yr for sure. And i didnt really like his body language after Deron was traded last year. Soon or late he will be traded, just im not sure if its better to do it right now or after a while, maybe in a year.
Millsap MUST be a part of this team as far as we go with the current core. He is a perfect team player. Just because he is undersized lets not underestimate what he brings to the team

 

[Twin Towers]

he is not our best players just because he is the best scorer. He doesnt play as big as getting 14 p/yr for sure. And i didnt really like his body language after Deron was traded last year. Soon or late he will be traded, just im not sure if its better to do it right now or after a while, maybe in a year.
Millsap MUST be a part of this team as far as we go with the current core. He is a perfect team player. Just because he is undersized lets not underestimate what he brings to the team

Millsap's minutes will go down this year. His value will go down. Trade him now. We can get plenty of scoring from Kanter and Favors to make up for Millsap. And we can get even better defense from both of them.
Millsap's value will only go down from here.

I like Jared Dudley from the suns. Can hit the 3 and he can do all the little things or Daren Collison or DJ Augustin for future point guards.

 

[NAOS]

No need to get too fancy:

https://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3cnpbhr

 

[billyshelby]

And i didnt really like his body language after Deron was traded last year.

The night Deron was traded Al went for 30 and 8. A night later he went for 30 and 9. He followed that up with 20/9, 28/19, 19/10, 27/7, 36/12. The only 'bad body language' I remember from Al came during the 8 game losing streak to obliterate our slim playoff hopes. And it was the bad body language of a competitor which I'll take any day.

 

[sepanol]

https://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3jk4wor

Harris - Collison - Watson
Hamilton - Burks
Hayward - Miles - Evans
Favors - Kanter
Jefferson - Kanter - Okur - Fesenko

We get Indiana's 1st round draft pick next year. Top 8 protected or whatever is fair.

George Hill - AJ Price
Rush - George
Granger - George
Millsap - Hansbrough
Hibbert - Foster

i think its logical to make a trade with indiana,
but i would prefer,

big al+ harris = collison , hamilton , an expiring contract to compensate the huge salariess plus a first round draft pick

 

[Coloradojazzfan]

Time for you to get...

 

[Twin Towers]

i think its logical to make a trade with indiana,
but i would prefer,

big al+ harris = collison , hamilton , an expiring contract to compensate the huge salariess plus a first round draft pick

We won't be trading Jefferson. No way Jazz will trade away the only Veteran Center (Okur doesn't count. KOC already said they are acting as if he won't play).

Favors cannot play Center and we don't want Kanter starting next year.

And I don't want any more midget big guys player for us. Bigger the better.

And why would we trade Jefferson and Harris for those 2 guys. Huge rip off. We don't need to give up that much.

 

[sepanol]

The night Deron was traded Al went for 30 and 8. A night later he went for 30 and 9. He followed that up with 20/9, 28/19, 19/10, 27/7, 36/12. The only 'bad body language' I remember from Al came during the 8 game losing streak to obliterate our slim playoff hopes. And it was the bad body language of a competitor which I'll take any day.

He was more like frustrated to be in the team because he came for a different purpose and he found a completely different scenario. Its good to be ambitious but he was more frustrated than ambitious. As i remember, he had a minor problem with Corbine when he sit him on the bench in the last quarter while Favors was playing.

How he will behave this year in the same circumstances? And there will be a crazy competition at that spot.
There will be a not rookie Favors, Kanter whose performance is highly anticipated by fans and no need to mention about Millsap. Also memo will probably return close to mid-season.

I just cant imagine Big Al to stay cool while he is on the bench for a couple of games. He will probably have a frustrated face against Corbine, thats what i dont like. Sloan left just because he couldnt bear anymore those players not listening to him anymore, especially Deron.

 

[sepanol]

We won't be trading Jefferson. No way Jazz will trade away the only Veteran Center (Okur doesn't count. KOC already said they are acting as if he won't play).

Favors cannot play Center and we don't want Kanter starting next year.

And I don't want any more midget big guys player for us. Bigger the better.

And why would we trade Jefferson and Harris for those 2 guys. Huge rip off. We don't need to give up that much.

Because we better get rid of their contracts right now instead of next year when they will only play with the same aim as Boozer did in his contract year. If we are rebuilding the team, we gotta give mins to the young core right away and even if they play good or not we gotta support them . We will get nowhere with Jefferson in long term because we already have 3 young players who wil have around 10 million p/yr when the time comes.

Btw i think Favors can play center very well. Regarding his attributes he is more like a center than pf.

Also i am not stuck on who is PF and who is C. We better play the most complimentary couple in that position. Like Favors-Kanter, Millsap - Memo, Millsap- Big Al instead of getting stuck with who is PF who is C. They will guard whoever they can guard better. I dont wanna see scenes again like Korver was guarding Kobe just because he was SG.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Trading Jefferson would be a HUGE mistake. By all accounts, the guy is working his *** off this offseason and is making every effort to do so with his teammates in an effort to build chemistry. Just last week Jeremy Evans was quoted in the SLTrib talking about how Jefferson has been a beast in the gym this summer.

Yes, the guy didn't start his Jazz career off in the best way but that seems to be the lingering memory from most Jazz fans. The dude went on to play in all 82 games, set career high's in blocks as well as assists and did so while looking better and better in the Jazz system as the season went on.

He is actually a very good one-on-one defender and while he obviously is much weaker when it comes to screen-and-roll and team defense, it seems Al realizes this and is pretty adamant about improving in those areas. I also think you'll see Al continue to evolve in the passing game. His inability/unwillingness to pass out of the post was probably the biggest knock on him coming in. He struggled greatly with it during the first half of the season, but as the light bulb seemed to come on you could see him making strides in that area. Jazz fans can knock him all they want, I think the guy is trending in the right direction and shows the exact type of attitude in regards to the fact that he still wants to improve his weaknesses. Even with Favors and Kanter, Big Al is currently the best big man on the team and by far the best low-post presence Utah has.

And defensive issues aside, Big Al is BY FAR Utah's best option on the scoring end. Any trade of Jefferson would have to involve Utah landing a top-flight scorer in return, which seems pretty unlikely. I still like the plan of selling Millsap on the idea that he's a better fit as a 6th man, bringing Kanter off the bench with Sap and starting Favors alongside Jefferson. Obviously, you want Kanter starting at some point, but that's something that's 1 or 2 years away from addressing.

 

[Twin Towers]

Because we better get rid of their contracts right now instead of next year when they will only play with the same aim as Boozer did in his contract year. If we are rebuilding the team, we gotta give mins to the young core right away and even if they play good or not we gotta support them . We will get nowhere with Jefferson in long term because we already have 3 young players who wil have around 10 million p/yr when the time comes.

Btw i think Favors can play center very well. Regarding his attributes he is more like a center than pf.

Also i am not stuck on who is PF and who is C. We better play the most complimentary couple in that position. Like Favors-Kanter, Millsap - Memo, Millsap- Big Al instead of getting stuck with who is PF who is C. They will guard whoever they can guard better. I dont wanna see scenes again like Korver was guarding Kobe just because he was SG.

Favors doesn't have the build to play Center yet. He has the length but he will dominate the PF position. You put him at the Center position and your killing his abilities that he has. Why hurt his value when he can easily dominate the PF position the way Duncan did. He won't have a problem guarding any PF in the league. And he is longer than most PF's. You put him at Center than all those advantages are taken away and he becomes an average Center.

 

[sepanol]

Trading Jefferson would be a HUGE mistake. By all accounts, the guy is working his *** off this offseason and is making every effort to do so with his teammates in an effort to build chemistry. Just last week Jeremy Evans was quoted in the SLTrib talking about how Jefferson has been a beast in the gym this summer.

Yes, the guy didn't start his Jazz career off in the best way but that seems to be the lingering memory from most Jazz fans. The dude went on to play in all 82 games, set career high's in blocks as well as assists and did so while looking better and better in the Jazz system as the season went on.

He is actually a very good one-on-one defender and while he obviously is much weaker when it comes to screen-and-roll and team defense, it seems Al realizes this and is pretty adamant about improving in those areas. I also think you'll see Al continue to evolve in the passing game. His inability/unwillingness to pass out of the post was probably the biggest knock on him coming in. He struggled greatly with it during the first half of the season, but as the light bulb seemed to come on you could see him making strides in that area. Jazz fans can knock him all they want, I think the guy is trending in the right direction and shows the exact type of attitude in regards to the fact that he still wants to improve his weaknesses. Even with Favors and Kanter, Big Al is currently the best big man on the team and by far the best low-post presence Utah has.

And defensive issues aside, Big Al is BY FAR Utah's best option on the scoring end. Any trade of Jefferson would have to involve Utah landing a top-flight scorer in return, which seems pretty unlikely. I still like the plan of selling Millsap on the idea that he's a better fit as a 6th man, bringing Kanter off the bench with Sap and starting Favors alongside Jefferson. Obviously, you want Kanter starting at some point, but that's something that's 1 or 2 years away from addressing.

He is a very good one on one player in the offensive end too. But basketball is played 5 on 5 and he slows the team a lot. He rather likes to have the ball in his hand and play individual post game. He doesnt have passing abilities, and he is a bad mid range jump shooter so that makes him a rather guardable player. I doubt he can avg 20ppg in playoffs. He isnt actually a very good fit for Jazz. I think he will play better in another team but i never think he can fulfill his skills because he has no basketball iq.

Also his pick n roll defense is one of the worst in the league. I would like to have Jefferson on team if he had less ego and half salary he has right now.

If we are gonna start Kanter 2 yrs from now, then whats the point of drafting him at 3? We could either pick Knight. I think we may start Big Al for a while , if he isnt gonna be traded but Kanter should take his spot at some point in the first season. Same with Favors. We should just dedicate this year to young players growth rather than making playoffs because we will get nowhere anyway. At most we will be like Atlanta against Boston 3 yrs ago.
If we follow the model of Oklahoma as when they drafted Durant, and the year after Westbrook, we will be in a better place in 2 yrs than where they are right now

 

[Stifle Tower]

We won't be trading Jefferson. No way Jazz will trade away the only Veteran Center (Okur doesn't count. KOC already said they are acting as if he won't play).

Favors cannot play Center and we don't want Kanter starting next year.

And I don't want any more midget big guys player for us. Bigger the better.

And why would we trade Jefferson and Harris for those 2 guys. Huge rip off. We don't need to give up that much.

I agree. Jazz need a minimum of 4 big guys. There are always injuries, even minor ones, that cause players to miss a few games during the season. Last thing we need is to trade away very good players like Jefferson and Millsap, have an injury, and have to go out an re-sign a guy like Elson to plug a hole. Or maybe we discover Kanter or Favors aren't going to be quite as good as we think. Perhaps one of them becomes a DWill and wants to go to a bigger market.

Let Kanter and Favors show so much skill that they HAVE to be the starters. By then, the contracts of Millsap and Jefferson will be closer to expiring. Kanter will be fine this year. He'll get all the backup mins behind Jefferson. The guy hasn't played in 1 year+. He's in shape, but not in NBA shape. He might be a little frustrated only playing 15 mins or so, but Memo will keep his head straight. Favors and Millsap can split the mins at PF, with Paul getting a few more at SF. Who knows, maybe Paul even starts at SF. That frees up more time for Favors and Kanter.

The team has the ability to go with a very big line-up or go smaller at some postions. What I'd really like to see is for Corbin to say, "we're going to have the attitude of give 'em 48 mins of hell. We're deep enough at every position to have you guys give max effort on every play. No coasting, no conserving. You'll all play a bit less, but we expect more." Jazz could come at teams in waves. I think Utah has the potential of having one of the best benches in the league, especially if we can re-sign Watson or find an equally competent backup PG. And that's a huge change from the last couple of seasons.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Seponal Wrote:

He is a very good one on one player in the offensive end too. But basketball is played 5 on 5 and he slows the team a lot. He rather likes to have the ball in his hand and play individual post game.

Karl Malone also liked to have the ball in his hands down on the post playing 1-on-1 basketball. Jefferson thriving in the post is not a bad thing. A strong go-to post player is an offensive staple that just about every team in the NBA wants. Just because you have it, doesn't mean it's the only thing you do offensively.

He doesnt have passing abilities

This is a huge assumption on your part. Truth is, he was never asked to pass up until his time in Utah and it showed. As I stated in my earlier post, as the season went on and Jefferson started to get a better understanding of what was being asked of him, his assists went up to the point where he set a career high. Why are you so certain he won't continue to make strides in this area when he has just started to show potential?

and he is a bad mid range jump shooter so that makes him a rather guardable player.

This I will give you. He may never be a great outside shooter, but considering how tough he is to defend in the post I think it's up to the Jazz to furnish him with capable perimeter shooters. Tim Duncan has never had great range on his jump shot, but he was so good down low that it allowed perimeter shooters to roam free and do damage in San Antonio's offense. If Utah wants to keep Jefferson as a featured offensive player, they need to eventually give him some legit 3 point threats.

I doubt he can avg 20ppg in playoffs.

With the right pieces around him, he could hit that average no problem.

He isnt actually a very good fit for Jazz. I think he will play better in another team but i never think he can fulfill his skills because he has no basketball iq.

And you know this how? At last report, Corbin was still tinkering with new offensive philosiphy. Not only that, Jefferson spent the 2nd half of last season showing that he could fit rather nicely into the current Jazz system.

Also his pick n roll defense is one of the worst in the league.

Again, this is the first time in his career he's been asked to defend the pick and roll in the way the Jazz have defended it. If offseason reports are true, and Jefferson really has the "want to" to improve in this area, I see no reason as to why he cannot.

If we are gonna start Kanter 2 yrs from now, then whats the point of drafting him at 3?

Umm, I dunno, maybe because he's a teenager who hasn't played competitive basketball in quite a while and throwing him to the wolves as a 19 year old rookie would probably stunt his development beyond belief?

The day that the Jazz traded for Jefferson, most realized how raw he still was and understood the fact that it would take more than 82 games for Jefferson to realize his full potential while playing for Utah. I've seen more than enough to say that while Jefferson is far from a finished product, he's certainly heading in the right direction. Some Jazz fans lack patience. Seponal, you seem to be the poster boy in that regard. IMO anybody questioning why Kanter can't be considering starting material almost right away doesn't have the patience or foresight to see what Utah is trying to accomplish.

 

[Twin Towers]

I agree. Jazz need a minimum of 4 big guys. There are always injuries, even minor ones, that cause players to miss a few games during the season. Last thing we need is to trade away very good players like Jefferson and Millsap, have an injury, and have to go out an re-sign a guy like Elson to plug a hole. Or maybe we discover Kanter or Favors aren't going to be quite as good as we think. Perhaps one of them becomes a DWill and wants to go to a bigger market.

Let Kanter and Favors show so much skill that they HAVE to be the starters. By then, the contracts of Millsap and Jefferson will be closer to expiring. Kanter will be fine this year. He'll get all the backup mins behind Jefferson. The guy hasn't played in 1 year+. He's in shape, but not in NBA shape. He might be a little frustrated only playing 15 mins or so, but Memo will keep his head straight. Favors and Millsap can split the mins at PF, with Paul getting a few more at SF. Who knows, maybe Paul even starts at SF. That frees up more time for Favors and Kanter.

The team has the ability to go with a very big line-up or go smaller at some postions. What I'd really like to see is for Corbin to say, "we're going to have the attitude of give 'em 48 mins of hell. We're deep enough at every position to have you guys give max effort on every play. No coasting, no conserving. You'll all play a bit less, but we expect more." Jazz could come at teams in waves. I think Utah has the potential of having one of the best benches in the league, especially if we can re-sign Watson or find an equally competent backup PG. And that's a huge change from the last couple of seasons.

Short term satisfaction while we sacrifice the future.

Not giving Favors and Kanter 20-30 minutes a game is going to hurt there development.

WHO CARES if we get a few more wins by having Millsap. We have NO CHANCE at a championship right now. Who cares about winning a few more games with Millsap.

We are talking about winning more games with Millsap and having depth while we hurt the development of Favors and Kanter? And if you don't think these guys need a lot of playing experience than you are blind to how guys develop. Its the same reason we complain about guys coming out of College too early. They need experience. These guys came out early. They need experience.

 

[sepanol]

Seponal Wrote:


Karl Malone also liked to have the ball in his hands down on the post playing 1-on-1 basketball. Jefferson thriving in the post is not a bad thing. A strong go-to post player is an offensive staple that just about every team in the NBA wants. Just because you have it, doesn't mean it's the only thing you do offensively.



This is a huge assumption on your part. Truth is, he was never asked to pass up until his time in Utah and it showed. As I stated in my earlier post, as the season went on and Jefferson started to get a better understanding of what was being asked of him, his assists went up to the point where he set a career high. Why are you so certain he won't continue to make strides in this area when he has just started to show potential?



This I will give you. He may never be a great outside shooter, but considering how tough he is to defend in the post I think it's up to the Jazz to furnish him with capable perimeter shooters. Tim Duncan has never had great range on his jump shot, but he was so good down low that it allowed perimeter shooters to roam free and do damage in San Antonio's offense. If Utah wants to keep Jefferson as a featured offensive player, they need to eventually give him some legit 3 point threats.



With the right pieces around him, he could hit that average no problem.



And you know this how? At last report, Corbin was still tinkering with new offensive philosiphy. Not only that, Jefferson spent the 2nd half of last season showing that he could fit rather nicely into the current Jazz system.



Again, this is the first time in his career he's been asked to defend the pick and roll in the way the Jazz have defended it. If offseason reports are true, and Jefferson really has the "want to" to improve in this area, I see no reason as to why he cannot.




Umm, I dunno, maybe because he's a teenager who hasn't played competitive basketball in quite a while and throwing him to the wolves as a 19 year old rookie would probably stunt his development beyond belief?

The day that the Jazz traded for Jefferson, most realized how raw he still was and understood the fact that it would take more than 82 games for Jefferson to realize his full potential while playing for Utah. I've seen more than enough to say that while Jefferson is far from a finished product, he's certainly heading in the right direction. Some Jazz fans lack patience. Seponal, you seem to be the poster boy in that regard. IMO anybody questioning why Kanter can't be considering starting material almost right away doesn't have the patience or foresight to see what Utah is trying to accomplish.

You have your opinions and they are slightly different from mine. But my main point is, if we are rebuilding a new team, which is set around the core of Hayward, Favors , Kanter and Burks, i would like to give these guys major mins as soon as possible. I think we can get to the playoffs with starting guys like big al, harris or whatever but it will not bring us anywhere to get to playoffs this year. I just dont see jefferson in future plans of this team because he is not a guy to accept being a bench player.
So i would prefer to dedicate this year to the growth of this young core instead of starting the currently best player. Of course Kanter wont just come to the court and dominate everyone else, but he will be a better player next year if he gets major mins this year. Same with Favors. I just want to increase the growth process speed so that we can be a contender in 2-3 yrs.

Jefferson has some good offensive skills but he isnt a versatile player. And i believe he will never be a player to carry a playoff team on his shoulders. So better to trade him while we can get some value in return. I dont necessarily say right away, but maybe in mid season period.

 

[sepanol]

Short term satisfaction while we sacrifice the future.

Not giving Favors and Kanter 20-30 minutes a game is going to hurt there development.

WHO CARES if we get a few more wins by having Millsap. We have NO CHANCE at a championship right now. Who cares about winning a few more games with Millsap.

We are talking about winning more games with Millsap and having depth while we hurt the development of Favors and Kanter? And if you don't think these guys need a lot of playing experience than you are blind to how guys develop. Its the same reason we complain about guys coming out of College too early. They need experience. These guys came out early. They need experience.

I could agree with everythng if Millsap would be exchanged to Jefferson. I would like to see millsap as a part of the team in future. As a good bench player and a perfect team player.

 

[Favors Flave]

I think we can get to the playoffs with starting guys like big al, harris or whatever but it will not bring us anywhere to get to playoffs this year. .

Dude, you always take playoffs over anything. I really believe we can be like a Memphis type team. A team with young talent and a couple veterans. Then once its the playoffs anything can happen. (Memphis beating Spurs)