Privileged by Kyle Korver

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Now I listened to rap for a while in high school.

Could you clarify? If we know the artists you chose to listen to, it may clarify some of your generalizations about the genre.

 

[One Brow]

Now you accept that I'm not white but keep lecturing me in a patronizing way? You are only making yourself look bad, the problem is you are so high up there you can't see it. As Jordan said... get some help.

Yes, once you made a declaration, I accepted it. I'm odd that way. Thanks for the advice.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

The privilege being spoken of has nothing to do with pay grade or situation or where you come from. A tipical black man or woman has to openly follow the letter of the law and avoid the appearance of evil, which means no drinking going to bars and nightclubs and not being out at all hours of the night because they will at some point be subjected to the system. Where as a white man can have the same care free life and as long as he breaks no rules/laws he can relax because he’s profiled as a white person that follows the laws where as a black man is automatically, in many cases up to no good.

I can't speak for you, but I don't judge people by the color of their skin. I suggest you heed Dr. Martin Luther King's advice, that we judge men by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Anyone suggesting to me that I have "White Privilege" should recognize that they are judging me by the color of my skin, not by my actions.

 

[Archie Moses]

It's a complicated thing. Not that they are largely similar, but perhaps this will offer you some perspective. So some famous Trinitarian preacher (say, Jerry Falwell Jr.) wrote an article about how Mormons were not brainwashed cultists, but normal people following their beliefs, and that they should be treated with the same basic respect as people in any other religion, in particular, don't accuse them all of being polygamists. Would you not feel both "Well, that's right and a nice first step" and "How in the hell did you not realize that years ago?"?

I can't imagine thinking, "how the hell did you not realize that years ago" because I realize people only know what they know. I understand that a lot of people don't know what the Mormon religion is and if they do, they might not know too much about it or know the common stigmas and stereotypes associated with it.

I think it's unreasonable to have "certain" expectations for others based off of my understanding and experiences.

If someone has learned a new truth, perspective, understanding that they feel has helped changed them in a positive way, I'd hope I'd support them, continue to educate and find more common ground. The idea of questioning them or ridiculing them on not being that way before seems rather counterintuitive.

 

[One Brow]

I can't speak for you, but I don't judge people by the color of their skin. I suggest you heed Dr. Martin Luther King's advice, that we judge men by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

Just so you are aware, using King's "I Have a Dream" speech to say we should not see race in the present is tactic employed by many racists, in order to try to de-weaponize their opponents. I mean, we know you are sincere and all, but it's a bad look.

Anyone suggesting to me that I have "White Privilege" should recognize that they are judging me by the color of my skin, not by my actions.

They are not judging you at all. Pointing out how other people treat you is not a judgment on you.

 

[One Brow]

I can't imagine thinking, "how the hell did you not realize that years ago" because I realize people only know what they know. I understand that a lot of people don't know what the Mormon religion is and if they do, they might not know too much about it or know the common stigmas and stereotypes associated with it.

One of the main differences is that there is very little Mormon activism, so it's much easier to be ignorant about Mormonism.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

I can't speak for you, but I don't judge people by the color of their skin.

The only meaningful response to racism is when people of the same group stand up against racists in their own ethnic group. That is great for you that you don't judge others by the color of their skin, but if you want to do something that actually carries meaning for those who continue to experience hatred you need to take a stand for them.

Example A:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/06/05/police-say-man-attacked-by-mob-after-utah-gay-pride-festival/

Terrance Mannery was helping customers and cleaning up the Doki Doki dessert shop just before closing Saturday night when four frightened, breathless men burst through the door.

They had just left the Utah Pride Festival, they said, when at least a dozen young, white men began following and harassing them.

Mannery looked at the entrance of Doki Doki. Men were crowding around the window, making taunting gestures. One opened the door to the entryway vestibule.

“Based on the actions the group was making, based on everything the gentlemen who came in had told me — if I allowed anyone in the store, they would try to cause harm to people,” Mannery said. “I couldn’t see how big the group was. I thought, ’It’s just seven to 10 people. Maybe they’ll back off.’”

Witnesses outside the shop said the mob was bigger than that.
Michelle Turpin, who was walking west near Doki Doki with friends after Pride, put the crowd closer to “20-ish.”

“They were all late teens, early 20s, clean-cut, typical blondie, blue-eyed, wholesome Utah boys,” Turpin said.

Jen Parsons-Soren, who had attended Pride with Turpin, said she heard the group yelling homophobic slurs; Salt Lake City police also have said the group was shouting slurs.

In a nearby parking lot, Lyft driver Ross Rogers was about to hit “cancel” on some late passengers at Doki Doki when he noticed a small group running into the shop, followed by a crowd of at least 15 “strong, muscular” men swarming the entrance.

“Then this African-American guy came from the restaurant,” Rogers said.

That was Mannery. Rogers watched as Mannery held out his arms, trying to “get some distance,” when one of the attackers shoved him into the door hard enough to break the hinge. Then the man punched Mannery.

After that, Rogers said, Mannery “came out swinging.”

Mannery said he couldn’t see how many people were hitting him; he got punched at least seven times.

Now perhaps you are not willing to take a punch (or several) for the brown people in your community when you witness others who, unlike yourself, do see color as a reason for hate. That's fine, that's your right. But if you want to actually do something meaningful for those Americans who are absolutely bullied (and who stress getting bullied on a daily basis), then you are going to have to take a stand for them. Otherwise you are going to have to accept the identity of a bystander as racist hate continues to unfold around you in this country on a daily basis.

Korver can certainly be commended for his written piece. But who of us wants to just be all talk for the rest of our lives? Even if you don't want to take a punch, at least say something when these things happen. Show that you have a modicum of a spine while you are still alive.

 

[Tak]

Yes, once you made a declaration, I accepted it. I'm odd that way. Thanks for the advice.

Is that an euphemism to say you are an ***? because you are one, a bit racist or at least a xenophobic one. Is sad that in a message board full of white people and in a thread about racism no one except @Stoked has called you in your ********. I'm out.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

I'm out.

Wait.... you mean after all that ********, you're still going to just shut up?

 

[JazzyFresh]

Wait.... you mean after all that ********, you're still going to just shut up?

Wait why the heck am I in your sig? lol

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

I don't believe it either. I accept the evidence for it.

Wealth also creates privilege. However, when we limit our comparisons to the same socio-economic strata, we stil see racial differences appear. Poor white people have it a little less hard than poor black people. Rich white people have it a little easier than rich black people. The existence of one does not negate the other.

Highly speculative. I've read and listened to individuals that study this professionally that suggest once other variables are accounted for (socio-economic status, household type, etc.) minorities often outperform their white counterparts. All depends on who you listen to. Also, I don't know how you measure who "had it harder or easier".

Perhaps Kyle is smart enough to know he's not the right person to suggest solutions.

I agree. He's not. But Thomas Sowell might be. He has long suggested that inequalities among races are entirely due to other factors. Also, he's black....so maybe some one here will be more open minded to his opinions.



Coleman Hughes also discusses the myth of systemic racism with Dave Rubin.



At the end of the day, each of us has to decide if we are in favor of either equality or equity. They are not the same thing. Those touting the idea of white privilege seem to be in favor of equity.

 

[Archie Moses]

One of the main differences is that there is very little Mormon activism, so it's much easier to be ignorant about Mormonism.

I agree.

However, it's easy to see how one may not know all the degrees of racism and learn things that change them. It's easy to be ignorant about one's upbringing, empirical truths, experiences and perspectives. If I'm being honest, I probably have some misguided thoughts, ignorance, and privileged perspectives. I've changed so much over the course of my life because I'm open to changes, truths, and experiences. It's taken certain experiences that just happened later than others experiences to understand more certain issues or why I felt the way I did.
I just find the whole attitude of ridiculing someone or questioning them for not recognizing something earlier counterproductive. Those that don't share common ground with me are not against me or my enemies. It just means they haven't had the same experiences I have or I haven't had the same experiences they have.

 

[LoPo]

I think Obama's failures are more about the failure of your democracy than his failings as a politician or leader.

Obama did very little to improve the lives of minorities in this country. He had an entire Democrat Congress for a time and failed to make any substantial changes to provide true movement towards better lives. The only statisitical advances for poor inner city minorities was the flawed Affordable Health Care Act which only improved the lives of a very small portion. The other would be the double or triple sized growth in food stamps.

I'm not a Trump guy, but seems he has done more for minorities improving their lot in life in 2 years than Obama did in 8 years. Employment and opportunity are an all time high. I was truly hopeful that Obama would inspire and lead a major shift. Nothing ever seemed to happen.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Wait why the heck am I in your sig? lol

Oh, that. It takes very special and specific behavior to get on that list. You basically made a post back in the day dissing DL in some way for wasting cap space on Joe Ingles.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Oh, that. It takes very special and specific behavior to get on that list. You basically made a post back in the day dissing DL in some way for wasting cap space on Joe Ingles.

Lol whaaat? I don't recall ever saying anything of the sort but cool, I'm honored. I do recall saying something along the lines that we are trying to hard to make Ingles into a Ginobili type player instead of a Hedo Turgolu(I was wrong on that) but never that we wasted money. Oh well, as I said, cool.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Just so you are aware, using King's "I Have a Dream" speech to say we should not see race in the present is tactic employed by many racists, in order to try to de-weaponize their opponents. I mean, we know you are sincere and all, but it's a bad look.
They are not judging you at all. Pointing out how other people treat you is not a judgment on you.

Thanks for pointing that out. I hope no one inferred that I was suggesting we should not see race.

Do you honestly feel that there is no judgement involved when someone claims that another has "White Privilege"? If someone tells me I have white privilege, without knowing me or my background, to me that is a judgment. They would be suggesting that I've benefited from systemic advantages. This is diminishing my accomplishments (however little they are).

I posted a clip earlier of a Black woman on a radio show claiming that another man has benefited from "White Privilege", only to discover that he is Black. It's astonishing to me how quickly her tone and attitude changed toward this man once she discovered he was Black. If you listen to the short clip, I believe you will agree that a degree of judgement towards another person is involved when claiming another has White Privilege.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

The only meaningful response to racism is when people of the same group stand up against racists in their own ethnic group. That is great for you that you don't judge others by the color of their skin, but if you want to do something that actually carries meaning for those who continue to experience hatred you need to take a stand for them.

Agreed, we all have this responsibility. I wish someone would have told the guy yelling at Westbrook to sit down and shut his mouth.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

Should he as a white male start kneeling in support of his teammates? It could start the conversation that the NBA has stayed away from having. Eagles player Chris Long seems to be the leader on this problem.

What about it?

Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[One Brow]

Is that an euphemism to say you are an ***? because you are one, a bit racist or at least a xenophobic one. Is sad that in a message board full of white people and in a thread about racism no one except @Stoked has called you in your ********. I'm out.

I will take you assessment under advisement.

 

[One Brow]

Highly speculative.

Measured, by direct experimentation, in dozens of ways, over and over.

I've read and listened to individuals that study this professionally that suggest once other variables are accounted for (socio-economic status, household type, etc.) minorities often outperform their white counterparts.

I'm game. I'd like to read some of these studies, please.

All depends on who you listen to. Also, I don't know how you measure who "had it harder or easier".

For example, in the job market, you could measure who was more likely to be offered a position, after controlling for variables like clothing, enunciation, etc. You could post basically identical resumes with stereotypical names and measure response rates. You could compare tips given for various qualities of service. You seem like a creative guy. I bet you could some up with more.

I agree. He's not. But Thomas Sowell might be. He has long suggested that inequalities among races are entirely due to other factors. Also, he's black....so maybe some one here will be more open minded to his opinions.

I fully acknowledge that you will be able to find dozens of black people who deny the existence or effect of racism today. I am happy that is their experience, although it seems convenient most of them for right-wing organizations. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

I read Sowell's opinions regularly, once upon a time. I found his economic perspectives pretty standard right-wing stuff. However, for Sowell, you can find hundreds of Coates, Jabbars, etc. I have no problem accepting Sowell's descriptions of his own experiences, but they are dwarfed by the descriptions of other black writers. Are you as willing to accept the experiences and research of Coates as I am of Sowell?

At the end of the day, each of us has to decide if we are in favor of either equality or equity. They are not the same thing. Those touting the idea of white privilege seem to be in favor of equity.

Is not equity the way to allow everyone to rise and fall on their own merits?