Evolution - A serious question.

[PearlWatson]

This makes much more sense than your original example.

Huh? Apes are a species of primates. The guy who thinks he is an ape still makes no sense.

 

[PearlWatson]

I have a question. Have humans changed their evolutionary history via their intellect? When an animal gets sick, without human intervention, it simply dies. Over time, individuals that may be susceptible to certain mutations that are deadly, such as cancer, die out leaving a specie which is stronger and less prone to said mutation. We, as humans, have decided that even the weakest among us can be saved and are actively fighting to eradicate these mutations.

Conversely, mutations that may eventually strengthen our specie are also fought against. Granted, we may not see the immediate benefit of a genetic mutation but in the future it may be necessary for survival if not lead to a new specie all together.

Humans are the first specie on the planet to be able to change the course of their evolution. Ultimately this may lead to the downfall of the specie.

What would those be?

 

[Scat]

Huh? Apes are a species of primates. The guy who thinks he is an ape still makes no sense.

Not all primates are great apes but all great apes are primates. The classification "great ape" is a collection of primate species that includes Homo sapiens sapiens. Unless you are an alien from another planet or a severe mutation, you are a great ape, Mogilla.

 

[Scat]

I have a question. Have humans changed their evolutionary history via their intellect? When an animal gets sick, without human intervention, it simply dies. Over time, individuals that may be susceptible to certain mutations that are deadly, such as cancer, die out leaving a specie which is stronger and less prone to said mutation. We, as humans, have decided that even the weakest among us can be saved and are actively fighting to eradicate these mutations.

Conversely, mutations that may eventually strengthen our specie are also fought against. Granted, we may not see the immediate benefit of a genetic mutation but in the future it may be necessary for survival if not lead to a new specie all together.

Humans are the first specie on the planet to be able to change the course of their evolution. Ultimately this may lead to the downfall of the specie.

What would those be?

As mentioned in my original post, they may not be instantly recognized as a beneficial mutation. How the hell am I supposed to know?

How about children that are born with webbed digits? Now we surgically repair their hands and feet so that they fit in with society but what if the world warmed to a point where most land mass was under water? Such a mutation may be very beneficial. Those that could migrate/travel/traverse through water more quickly would have an advantage over those that could not.

Sickle Cell Anemia (SCA) is a mutation that shows some benefit to those living in areas with a high incidence of malaria. It prevents the malaria bacteria from attaching to red blood cells thereby sparing the human from contracting the disease. Granted, SCA has it's own set of issues that degrade the human's quality of life but it does prevent a very painful death via a specific disease, malaria. Now extrapolate this out and say that an individual mutates the current genetic boundries for SCA and develops a red blood cell that not only prevents the contraction of malaria but is also painless and not detrimantal to the individual. Would this not be beneficial to the human race? Especially those living in 3rd world countries? Problem is, we are currently trying to cure SCA and eradicate it. We may be eliminating a mutation that could could benefit the human race.

I'm sure if you sat down and thought about it you could come up with your own beneficial mutation but I suspect you'd rather argue than even try.

 

[PearlWatson]

Not all primates are great apes but all great apes are primates. The classification "great ape" is a collection of primate species that includes Homo sapiens sapiens. Unless you are an alien from another planet or a severe mutation, you are a great ape, Mogilla.

Is an ape a great ape?

 

[One Brow]

Is an ape a great ape?

Not always. "Great apes" refers to orangutans, goriillas, chimpanzees, and humans (about 8-10 species total). It does not include gibbons, for example.

 

[One Brow]

Your quote supports me.
Intelligent Design says evolution is a directed process and not a random one.

It is entirely compatible to say God used undirected processes to create humans. Therefore, merely saying God usedevolution to create humans is not sufficients to say the belief is in intellegent design.

 

[Scat]

I have a question. Have humans changed their evolutionary history via their intellect? When an animal gets sick, without human intervention, it simply dies. Over time, individuals that may be susceptible to certain mutations that are deadly, such as cancer, die out leaving a specie which is stronger and less prone to said mutation. We, as humans, have decided that even the weakest among us can be saved and are actively fighting to eradicate these mutations.

Conversely, mutations that may eventually strengthen our specie are also fought against. Granted, we may not see the immediate benefit of a genetic mutation but in the future it may be necessary for survival if not lead to a new specie all together.

Humans are the first specie on the planet to be able to change the course of their evolution. Ultimately this may lead to the downfall of the specie.

Is an ape a great ape?

Not necessarily. There are gibbons which are considered "lesser apes" and the aforementioned "great apes" which includes chimps, gorillas and humans. Orangutans kind of fall into their own special catagory but are oft times referred to as "great apes". As you can see, not all apes are "great apes".

 

[One Brow]

I have a question. Have humans changed their evolutionary history via their intellect?

If that's true, it's nothing new. Fish have used their superior inteligence over other sea anaimals to change their evolutionary "history" (by which I presume you mean future) for hundreds of millions of years.

Over time, individuals that may be susceptible to certain mutations that are deadly, such as cancer, die out leaving a specie which is stronger and less prone to said mutation. We, as humans, have decided that even the weakest among us can be saved and are actively fighting to eradicate these mutations.

It's a fair argument to say we have used our technological abilities to change our environment to a degree where our evolutionary future may be altered. ?That's a standard feedback mechanism.

Conversely, mutations that may eventually strengthen our specie are also fought against.

I would distinguish between "fought against" and "given no preference".

Humans are the first specie on the planet to be able to change the course of their evolution. Ultimately this may lead to the downfall of the specie.

99.9% of species die out. I like our odds better if we try to shape our own destiny.

 

[The-Joker]

Your quote supports me.
Intelligent Design says evolution is a directed process and not a random one.

You just keep strumming that banjo and sacrificing goats.

 

[PearlWatson]

It is entirely compatible to say God used undirected processes to create humans. Therefore, merely saying God usedevolution to create humans is not sufficients to say the belief is in intellegent design.

An ape probably wouldn't understand this but if God is involved then the process is not undirected.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

It's pretty simple really.

Everything evolves.

There is TroutBum. Then, there is SalmonHobo.

 

[One Brow]

An ape probably wouldn't understand this but if God is involved then the process is not undirected.

Why? God can't create an undirectd process? I thought God was omnipotent?

 

[PearlWatson]

Not necessarily. There are gibbons which are considered "lesser apes" and the aforementioned "great apes" which includes chimps, gorillas and humans. Orangutans kind of fall into their own special catagory but are oft times referred to as "great apes". As you can see, not all apes are "great apes".

So there is no species called ape?

Are "Greater Apes" and "Lesser Apes" an order, a family, or a genus classification?

 

[PearlWatson]

Why? God can't create an undirectd process? I thought God was omnipotent?

He can but there is no evidence that He did.

 

[The-Joker]

He can but there is no evidence that He did.

How can he? Doesn't god have to follow the rules? He probably gets to create the rules, but once he creates them doesn't he have to follow them.

 

[PearlWatson]

How can he? Doesn't god have to follow the rules? He probably gets to create the rules, but once he creates them doesn't he have to follow them.

The guy who thinks he is an ape said he thinks God is omnipotent.

 

[Agoxlea]

He can but there is no evidence that He did.

There is no evidence that he can.

 

[One Brow]

So there is no species called ape?

Are "Greater Apes" and "Lesser Apes" an order, a family, or a genus classification?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape#Classification_and_evolution

He can but there is no evidence that He did.

There's no evidence any putative God created any process, at all.

At any rate, when you said "if God is involved then the process is not undirected", you didn't really mean it. Cool.

 

[Scat]

An ape probably wouldn't understand this but if God is involved then the process is not undirected.

I think that God sets the wheels in motion and may even intervene at times but he does not micro-manage the entire process. Ever hear of free agency? It's kind of a big deal in the Bible regarding God's, Jesus' and Lucifer's relationship.