ESPN deals that should happen
- Thread starter Mongoose
- Start date
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
We usually agree on most things. So what is wrong with Jared Dudley?
47 percent from the field
41 percent from 3
solid rebounder
good defender
unselfish
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dudleja01.html
Per 36 he would average 14 points per game and 6 rebounds and 1.5 steals
His stats are not that far behind Millsaps. I wouldn't do Jared Dudley straight up for Millsap. But I would do it for a combination of Dudley and a young PG to replace Harris when he is gone.
The Combination of Jared Dudley and Hayward would be nice. Will he ever be an all-star. No of course not. But he will do the little things and hustle and be efficient. Which we need around our young players.
I don't hate Dudley but him being the major piece in a Millsap trade is incomprehensible. If the Jazz can't get a deal for Millsap where they end up with the better player, then they shouldn't consider it. Jared Dudley and DJ Augustin aren't better combined and the Jazz shouldn't be in a hurry to trade their arguably best player. At least not for a lateral (at best) move. It's all about quality of your players, not quantity of lesser square pegs in square holes.
If Millsap can't play the 3 any better after a giant offseason of undeterminable length, then you start making calls instead of just taking them. Or you trade ogre tweener that does one thing kind of well (and requires the offense to give him the ball for him to do anything, and nothing more or less makes him more effective), especially since the Jazz just drafted what could be the faster, smarter version of him.
If Millsap can't play the 3 any better after a giant offseason of undeterminable length, then you start making calls instead of just taking them. Or you trade ogre tweener that does one thing kind of well (and requires the offense to give him the ball for him to do anything, and nothing more or less makes him more effective), especially since the Jazz just drafted what could be the faster, smarter version of him.
footawn
Well-Known Member
I still think we need to come up with some sort of package to turn Millsap into Granger.
And then another to acquire Afflalo.
Starting
Harris-Afflalo-Granger-Big Al-Favors
with Hayward, Kanter, Burks, maybe TJ Ford or Earl coming off the bench... now there's a 9 man rotation I'd salivate over.
And then another to acquire Afflalo.
Starting
Harris-Afflalo-Granger-Big Al-Favors
with Hayward, Kanter, Burks, maybe TJ Ford or Earl coming off the bench... now there's a 9 man rotation I'd salivate over.
Mongoose
Well-Known Member
Well thats just your opinion man...
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Millsap is so overrated. If he has the value every fan thinks he has the Jazz would of traded him.
In the mean time if Millsap is tried and the 3 position and it fails? Than we have no trade value anymore. That is a big risk to take. Because we won't be able to trade him for as much value has we could get now if the experiment fails.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
LeBron for Howard would a great deal for the Heat. They might not get as many jersey sales, but they would probably get a few banners instead.
Why? He's not perceived as a 3 by anyone now either. It's not a risk at all.
And if you're going to use the argument that Jared Dudley is greater or equal to Millsap, you're going to be laughed at by everyone of every fan base. You think Millsap is trash because he's just 2 short lol. Get real.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Yes its a big risk. If his stats drop and he hasn't shown anything that year why would his value stay the same? Every team would know he is disgruntled and the team can't keep him. So his value drops big time. Your insane if you think it won't.
And i never said Dudley is equal or greater than Millsap. Don't put words in my mouth. I said Millsap is overrated in terms of what we can get for him or what this fan base thinks we can get for him. We are not going to get a borderline all-star for Millsap. There are so many scoring PF's in the league. He isn't valued very high right now. Look around the league. They are very abundant especially undersized PF's.
I like Millsap actually but I like Favors and Kanter more. And I want playing time for them. Millsap's value will never be higher than it is now. So we will be lucky for it to stay the same. More chance of it dropping after trying out the 3 or getting an injury.
But were not going to get a borderline all-star for Millsap at the point guard position or a wing position. Not because Millsap does not equal that talent but because guys like Millsap are not hard to find.
I am being realistic and saying lets get 2 good role players for Millsap.
GVC
Well-Known Member
So why not dump Al Jefferson for Jared Dudley?
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Because Favors will dominate the PF position for years to come. I don't want him playing center and making him a role playing center when he can become a all-star at the PF position.
And I also don't want a starting lineup of Kanter and Favors yet until they develop.
Okur is not ready to play and we cannot count on him.
That is why Millsap has to go. We need Jefferson's scoring while Favors and Kanter develop. We also need Jefferson's length.
Jefferson, Favors and Kanter is a better rotation in terms of beating contending teams.
Than Millsap, Favors and Kanter. Too much inexperience and too little size.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
No he isn't but how many Centers in the league are? Not many so Jefferson isn't as horrible of a Center as you make him out to be.
Favors and Jefferson will complement each other on defense very well. Millsap and Favors or Millsap and Jefferson won't work as well on the defensive side of the ball.
I would much rather have a legit center but those are rare and hard to find. Jefferson can play the Center position better than Millsap can obviously and Kanter shouldn't start. And putting Favors at Center will only hurt his development.
If we can trade Jefferson and Millsap for a Real Center and a wing player I am all for it. But that is hard to do. Millsap is the only one who makes sense in terms of giving the young players playing time and matching up with the contending teams.
We need length. Millsap and Jefferson are not the long term solution. But Millsap will hurt the development of Favors and Kanter and cut into there playing time. Jefferson will work for us for 2 more years. After that let him go and Kanter and Favors can both play major minutes together. But he is just here to fill the Center spot. If we can find a better option at Center than go for it. But we don't have one on this team right now.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
There are at least 20 centers who are better defenders than Al Jefferson. You really don't know how bad he is. If its an improvement from Memo, its a pretty small one. Remember the Timber Wolves, yes the worst team in the league, GAVE us this guy for virtually nothing. Don't take my word for it though, go ask any other teams fans what they think of Al Jefferson in trade value. You would have a hard time finding a team even wanting to use a TPE on him. Cleveland certainly has shown no interest and they have no center
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
There are at least 20 centers who are better defenders than Al Jefferson. You really don't know how bad he is. If its an improvement from Memo, its a pretty small one. Remember the Timber Wolves, yes the worst team in the league, GAVE us this guy for virtually nothing. Don't take my word for it though, go ask any other teams fans what they think of Al Jefferson in trade value. You would have a hard time finding a team even wanting to use a TPE on him. Cleveland certainly has shown no interest and they have no center
Jefferson sucks I know he does. But overall offense and defense Jefferson is good for us for the next 2 years. Your not going to get equal value back from Millsap or Jefferson in a trade. BUT the combination of Jefferson and Favors is better for the FUTURE of the team rather than pushing Favors to Center or playing Kanter too many minutes his first year.
My whole defense of keeping Jefferson rather than Millsap actually has more to do with making sure Favors and Kanter develop properly than actually liking one player over another. Its all about Favors and Kanter. I am not debating Jefferson vs. Millsap as a whole. Except for position sake and the future of these young big guys.
- Kanter should play back up Center and a little PF
- Favors should play all of his minutes at the PF position because he will dominate there. He won't dominate at the Center position (Will only hurt him developing there)
These 2 things are very important in developing these young big men. If we can trade away Jefferson for a real center than I am totally for it. But its not going to happen. So I say keep him unless a good trade comes about.
I also don't want Millsap not because I don't like him but because I think Corbin will play him twice as much as Favors. And it will hurt his development also. I do not trust the coaching staff to do the right thing. Trading Millsap would force them to play Favors big minutes.
Its not black and white with Jefferson and Millsap. I only care about Kanter and Favors because neither Jefferson or Millsap will ever help us contend for a championship if they are playing big minutes.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Pushing Favors to center? Cute. Does anyone have a clue as to what his measureables actually are?
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Couldn't tell by your post if your for or against him playing Center so.....
He is 6'10 with a 7'4 wing span. But it doesn't matter if he was 7 foot with a 7'7 wing span.
We should use Favors the same way the Spurs used Duncan. Duncan could of easily played Center in the beginning of his career. But he had the athletic ability to stay with PF's in the league. While also having the length and strength to dominate the PF position. You move him to Center and ya he might be able to get around them easier but he won't be able to score or defend as well because they will be just as long as him. So he won't be able to dominate there.
We should play big and play them at the position that they will play there best at. And Favors will play his best at PF.
Kanter we are unsure so far. But he might not have the lateral quickness to stay with PF's but he probably has the strength and size (Width) to play Center.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Won't be able to score? We don't dictate who our opponents put on Favors.
And yes, Favors will play his best at pf. I don't question that. But I question if Kanter, who's not as long, can play well at center.
Your points are noted though and I suppose only time will tell.
So the Jazz should trade Millsap for Jared Dudley because even though Millsap is clearly better by anyone's assessment, he's too short. And they should keep a guy that drives every team he's played on into the ground and has even less of a true position. All because Favors should be a PF no matter what his size.
My head is spinning from the logic.