Woj bomb... AD to Lakers

[NUMBERICA]

And that's just off the top of my head. Like I said, every year since about 2007, rumours have been swirling around LeBron and him wanting better teammates, different coaches, etc.

Sure, you could blame the 24/7 media cycle, but rumours aren't swirling around anyone else like that. Have you heard any rumours that any Warriors stars wanted Kerr gone? Even when Walton had them 39-4 to start that 2015-16 seasons, were there stories about how Steph wanted Walton to stay or anything like that?

Have there been stories this year about Giannis wanting a more "player-friendly" coach? Was there drama at the deadline about players being shipped out of Milwaukee to get more help?

How come all this stuff somehow follows LeBron?

Well if you’re going to make that comparison, Giannis just finished his 5th year, which if it were LeBron, would’ve been 2007. That team got to the finals in a far more pathetic Eastern Conference and LeBron had virtually no help. I also don’t recall murmurings that early. Giannis has done less with more, and he’s very early in his career. I’ve also started hearing murmurs of Giannis bolting if whatever doesn’t happen in the next two years.

I’m not a LeBron fan, but that he’s as stable as he’s been is something of a miracle considering how insane half of his life has been.

 

[framer]

If you worked at a job where the guy you worked with called the shots it would get frustrating. I dont blame the younger Lakers players AT ALL for quitting on the team ESPECIALLY when the player calling the shots wants you traded while he is in a suit sitting on a injury that he took his time getting back from.

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It wasn't the younger players that quit. It was the disgruntled vet crew. Of course it could just be that they sucked rather than outright quit.

 

[framer]

Who the **** is talking about Michael Jordan and things that happened 25 years ago? I am talking about right now. I am talking about this decade. LeBron James creates more drama than any other superstar in the league. Does he create more or less drama than MJ? I don't know and I don't care. MJ retired 21 years ago.

Plus, punching Steve Kerr isn't something that should be held against someone.

 

[framer]

Because it's stupid to question a player who went to 8 straight finals. The media, and you as it seems, want to bash LeBron for things that other people aren't even questioned about.

What's the difference between 2010 or 21 years ago? Both players won titles with those coaches and those teammates. Quit crying about LeBron. The highest profile athletes pull strings. It's part of sports.

I'm not convinced that the Durant-Westbrook Thunder even without Harden don't go to the finals for the past eight years if they were in the Eastern conference. I'd wager they would have went at least 5 times.

 

[LoPo]

I'm not convinced that the Durant-Westbrook Thunder even without Harden don't go to the finals for the past eight years if they were in the Eastern conference. I'd wager they would have went at least 5 times.

We will never know. And I bet the Warriors would have won the title if KD was healthy. But you know who the champ is?

I think it's kind of funny how everybody talks about how weak the East is the whole time LeBron is there. Between last summer and this coming summer, we might see Kawhi bolt the West along with KD, Tobias Harris, Butler, and others. I guess if he makes the Finals this year it's because the West is so weak.

People do everything in their power sometimes to question the legacy of one LeBron James.

 

[JimLes]

Because it's stupid to question a player who went to 8 straight finals. The media, and you as it seems, want to bash LeBron for things that other people aren't even questioned about.

As a Jazz fan, my dislike for MJ needs no explanation or voicing, I would hope.

Yeah, LeBron went to 8 straight finals, 5 of which he lost. Sure, on talent alone, he might be the most gifted player to ever play basketball. But as an all-time great, he sure is difficult to build around, as evidenced by only 3 titles.

For all that I loathe Jordan, I do give him that he was so good, two completely different treble-winning teams were built around him. Hell, Duncan won 5 titles over 15 years with completely different players around him.

For all of LeBron's supposed greatness, you'd think you could just throw any number of players around him and he'd win. That he doesn't, regularly, is a damning indictment of him as a player and as a person.

 

[Douchebag K]

As a Jazz fan, my dislike for MJ needs no explanation or voicing, I would hope.

Yeah, LeBron went to 8 straight finals, 5 of which he lost. Sure, on talent alone, he might be the most gifted player to ever play basketball. But as an all-time great, he sure is difficult to build around, as evidenced by only 3 titles.

For all that I loathe Jordan, I do give him that he was so good, two completely different treble-winning teams were built around him. Hell, Duncan won 5 titles over 15 years with completely different players around him.

For all of LeBron's supposed greatness, you'd think you could just throw any number of players around him and he'd win. That he doesn't, regularly, is a damning indictment of him as a player and as a person.

LeBron's had some dreadful, dreadful players that he's dragged to the finals. MJ and Duncan esp have had some decent surrounding players. And the teams that MJ played against in the finals were nothing like what LeBron has faced.

Having said that i think LeBron definitely thrives of drama and is responsible for creating a fair bit of it

 

[LoPo]

As a Jazz fan, my dislike for MJ needs no explanation or voicing, I would hope.

Yeah, LeBron went to 8 straight finals, 5 of which he lost. Sure, on talent alone, he might be the most gifted player to ever play basketball. But as an all-time great, he sure is difficult to build around, as evidenced by only 3 titles.

For all that I loathe Jordan, I do give him that he was so good, two completely different treble-winning teams were built around him. Hell, Duncan won 5 titles over 15 years with completely different players around him.

For all of LeBron's supposed greatness, you'd think you could just throw any number of players around him and he'd win. That he doesn't, regularly, is a damning indictment of him as a player and as a person.

MJ never had to play the Warriors or Spurs. And in 5 seasons without Phil and Pippen, MJ had 5 losing seasons. And we will never know all the drama surrounding MJ because like Cowherd has said, they weren't allowed do publish negative stories on golden boy MJ.

LeBron is the product of the new era of media converage and social media. He creates drama but has so much more made up by media looking to get attention. I don't like everything about him, but the "selfish or bad teammate" bit is bogus.

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[JimLes]

MJ never had to play the Warriors or Spurs. And in 5 seasons without Phil and Pippen, MJ had 5 losing seasons.

No, but he had to play the Celtics and the Pistons. Most great players weren't drafted onto stacked teams. Even Magic Johnson joined the Lakers after they just posted a fairly pedestrian 47-win season. It's preposterous to suggest that somehow LeBron James had it harder than any other superstar who ever played. LeBron bolted for South Beach when he was 25 because he just couldn't chill the **** out and wait to have a decent team put together around him. It's hard to not have crappy talent around you when you're forcing your team to trade all your picks to get you help immediately because you believe yourself entitled to a championship at twenty-****ing-five.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/draft.html

I mean, 5 of the 11 season LeBron played in Cleveland, they didn't have any draft picks! In other years, they simply traded guys away after drafting them. You can't really argue that the teams LeBron has been on have developed a single good young player while he was there. Or maybe I just can't remember one.

You know the kind of players Jordan played with when he was 25? Here's a sample of a starting lineup for the Bulls around that time:

Michael Jordan
Charles Oakley
Brad Sellers
Rory Sparrow
Mike Brown

That's a 4th and a 3rd round pick there. There aren't even that many rounds today! Brad Sellers was a lottery pick, but his 6.3 career PPG average tells you almost everything you need to know about him. You might argue that Oakley was a decent player who certainly had a very long career which included an ASG appearance(the year almost a dozen players made their only ASG appearance ever because the league was that bad), but at best, you could say that he was a player in Ilgauskas range. Borderline All-Star who was a decent defender but certainly nothing resembling a proper second option on offense.

Sure, Jordan would get better teammates later, but not the LeBron way. Grant and Pippen were both drafted by the Bulls. Hell, BJ Armstrong too, if you want to count him among "better teammates." They all had to be developed, nurtured. They had to be waited on. Or you can pressure your front office to trade everything even remotely resembling an asset to get Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, Ben Wallace, Shaq, and Antawn Jamison. All somewhere between 5 and 10 years past their primes.

Let's not pretend like LeBron's mediocre return on what it's supposed to be GOAT talent is all the result of bad luck, conspiracies, and other teams just plain being jerks. The man's patience is non-existent.

 

[fishonjazz]

You're arguing that father time isnt undefeated interesting take

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Nope. Just saying that lebron has gotten better as he has aged. I dont he will be very good when he is 80 years old though


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[fishonjazz]

.

For all of LeBron's supposed greatness, you'd think you could just throw any number of players around him and he'd win. That he doesn't, regularly, is a damning indictment of him as a player and as a person.

You dont think he wins regularly? Thats wierd. Usually players that go to finals every year win pretty regularly.


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[Stoked]

As a Jazz fan, my dislike for MJ needs no explanation or voicing, I would hope.

Yeah, LeBron went to 8 straight finals, 5 of which he lost. Sure, on talent alone, he might be the most gifted player to ever play basketball. But as an all-time great, he sure is difficult to build around, as evidenced by only 3 titles.

For all that I loathe Jordan, I do give him that he was so good, two completely different treble-winning teams were built around him. Hell, Duncan won 5 titles over 15 years with completely different players around him.

For all of LeBron's supposed greatness, you'd think you could just throw any number of players around him and he'd win. That he doesn't, regularly, is a damning indictment of him as a player and as a person.

I disagree. He was countered by the second best player joining a 73-9 team. And the San Antonio Spurs. An organization that is just other worldly. Otherwise LeBron would have like 7-8 chips.

He’s won chips on two cities and it’s possible it’ll be three soon. God I hate the Lakers.

But LeBron is just disgustingly good. Best ever imo. Only Jordan has an argument

 

[LoPo]

No, but he had to play the Celtics and the Pistons. Most great players weren't drafted onto stacked teams. Even Magic Johnson joined the Lakers after they just posted a fairly pedestrian 47-win season. It's preposterous to suggest that somehow LeBron James had it harder than any other superstar who ever played. LeBron bolted for South Beach when he was 25 because he just couldn't chill the **** out and wait to have a decent team put together around him. It's hard to not have crappy talent around you when you're forcing your team to trade all your picks to get you help immediately because you believe yourself entitled to a championship at twenty-****ing-five.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/draft.html

I mean, 5 of the 11 season LeBron played in Cleveland, they didn't have any draft picks! In other years, they simply traded guys away after drafting them. You can't really argue that the teams LeBron has been on have developed a single good young player while he was there. Or maybe I just can't remember one.

You know the kind of players Jordan played with when he was 25? Here's a sample of a starting lineup for the Bulls around that time:

Michael Jordan
Charles Oakley
Brad Sellers
Rory Sparrow
Mike Brown

That's a 4th and a 3rd round pick there. There aren't even that many rounds today! Brad Sellers was a lottery pick, but his 6.3 career PPG average tells you almost everything you need to know about him. You might argue that Oakley was a decent player who certainly had a very long career which included an ASG appearance(the year almost a dozen players made their only ASG appearance ever because the league was that bad), but at best, you could say that he was a player in Ilgauskas range. Borderline All-Star who was a decent defender but certainly nothing resembling a proper second option on offense.

Sure, Jordan would get better teammates later, but not the LeBron way. Grant and Pippen were both drafted by the Bulls. Hell, BJ Armstrong too, if you want to count him among "better teammates." They all had to be developed, nurtured. They had to be waited on. Or you can pressure your front office to trade everything even remotely resembling an asset to get Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, Ben Wallace, Shaq, and Antawn Jamison. All somewhere between 5 and 10 years past their primes.

Let's not pretend like LeBron's mediocre return on what it's supposed to be GOAT talent is all the result of bad luck, conspiracies, and other teams just plain being jerks. The man's patience is non-existent.

I will read this thoroughly tomorrow.

LeBron always did more with less than MJ ever did. MJ had losing season every season without Pippen. MJ won one playoff game in the Boston days. He was 1-9 in the playoffs before Pippen.

LBJ took Jamison and Mo Williams to the finals. Recently took an awful team there too. Last season was only the 2nd losing season of his career. The other, when he was the best player as an 18 year old rookie.

Legends have different legacies. Both MJ and LBJ were divas though. Big time divas. Fans are told to adore one and constantly scrutinize the other.

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[Stoked]

I will read this thoroughly tomorrow.

LeBron always did more with less than MJ ever did. MJ had losing season every season without Pippen. MJ won one playoff game in the Boston days. He was 1-9 in the playoffs before Pippen.

LBJ took Jamison and Mo Williams to the finals. Recently took an awful team there too. Last season was only the 2nd losing season of his career. The other, when he was the best player as an 18 year old rookie.

Legends have different legacies. Both MJ and LBJ were divas though. Big time divas. Fans are told to adore one and constantly scrutinize the other.

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Not always. He had a good Bosh and Wade for one season. And Wade for a second. Kyrie

But yeah, usually his teams have sucked on the whole.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Wish LeBron would bring all that drama, finals appearances, and championships here to Utah. Such a burden having him on your team, but I think I’d get over it.



Jesus Christ, if you hate the dude fine. But attempting to lower the IQ of the entire thread isn’t necessary.

 

[LoPo]

Not always. He had a good Bosh and Wade for one season. And Wade for a second. Kyrie

But yeah, usually his teams have sucked on the whole.

Not always for sure. LeBron had good teams too. I will say that Pippen was better than any player LeBron ever played with. Wade was a little past it when they linked up in Miami. Pippen was one of the best all around players of all time.

AD might end up better than Pippen, but that's TBD.

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[JimLes]

LBJ took Jamison and Mo Williams to the finals.

And you expect me to take anything you say seriously?

The Cavs traded for Jamison on February 17th 2010. What finals, pray tell, did Jamison play in?

 

[Stoked]

And you expect me to take anything you say seriously?

The Cavs traded for Jamison on February 17th 2010. What finals, pray tell, did Jamison play in?

Lmfao.

 

[fishonjazz]

I will read this thoroughly tomorrow.

LeBron always did more with less than MJ ever did. MJ had losing season every season without Pippen. MJ won one playoff game in the Boston days. He was 1-9 in the playoffs before Pippen.

LBJ took Jamison and Mo Williams to the finals. Recently took an awful team there too. Last season was only the 2nd losing season of his career. The other, when he was the best player as an 18 year old rookie.

Legends have different legacies. Both MJ and LBJ were divas though. Big time divas. Fans are told to adore one and constantly scrutinize the other.

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Yep
He went to the finals with zudrunas illgauakas as the 2nd best player on his team for God's sake.
Talk about doing more with less!

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[JimLes]

Yep
He went to the finals with zudrunas illgauakas as the 2nd best player on his team for God's sake.
Talk about doing more with less!

And Hakeem won the finals with Vernon Maxwell as his second option. Dispatched Drexler, Barkley, Stockton, Malone, and Ewing on the way. That's like 3rd team All-NBA All-Time kind of five.