Millsap preparing for season despite lockout
- Thread starter Zerol
- Start date
Because the discussion was about who would you rather have starting over Millsap at PF, NOW. I could care less how old Gasol or Nowitzki are. Would I rather have them starting at PF over Millsap next year? Yes.
Huh, if anything Millsap's defense is heavily overrated by Jazz fans. He isnt strong or tall enough to guard bigger STARTING PFs nor is he quick enough to guard the Odoms or Nowitzkis of the league. He is a classic tweener on defense.
Scola vs Millsap is mostly a starter vs bench player comparison. Anyways, I am not saying Scola is better than Millsap by a huge margin, I am saying that at worst they are comparable.
Nowitski and Gasol are a far cry from Luis "Rockets fans think even less of me than the 2 Short LOL contingent of Jazz fans think of Millsap" Scola.
If they're practically equal players in production, but one is 5 years younger, plays much better D (that isn't saying anything), already plays for your team/is probably going to be the longest tenured player on the team still/has chemistry with the team that is there and comfort with the location and organization, is arguably your best player, is owed $25 million LESS (no joke), and has shown improvement every year, why would you choose the other?
Scola also doesn't/can't shoot 3's. He also requires 2.3 more shots in 1.7 fewer minutes to get his additional point. Or in other words, he's not as effective with the possession he uses (shoots worse from the field and from the line, in addition to getting to the line less). Millsap also has the edge in turnover rate if you want to split hairs. Millsap also has a better PER.
But their numbers are close. So please, let us flock to the slimiest flopper in the league, that is also significantly older (in the middle of a rebuild, no less), is owed almost THREE times as much money, and might hate it here. AND when you break it down, he's actually worse than Millsap in most categories.
At BEST they are comparable.
But their numbers are close. So please, let us flock to the slimiest flopper in the league, that is also significantly older (in the middle of a rebuild, no less), is owed almost THREE times as much money, and might hate it here. AND when you break it down, he's actually worse than Millsap in most categories.
At BEST they are comparable.
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My comparison is purely from basketball point of view. This is not about salaries or about production per value or about who would be a better fit for the Jazz.
Looks like you are in the wrong argument.
In terms of just basketball skills and production, if you did a ranking of PFs where would Millsap stand? Thats what was being discussed.
Age or current salary doesnt matter.
If you look at it that way, at WORST Scola is as good as Millsap.
Millsap hasnt even played an entire season as a starter, has he? He has done spot duty as a starter, at best. Those dont show up in your stats.
He doesnt need to. You are clutching at straws here. Not that Millsap is suddenly Hornacek-esque in his 3-pt shooting ability either just because he hit a few 3s early last season.
All said and done, the numbers are a wash. But Scola got his numbers by being a full time starter and being the 2nd or 3rd option on offense all the time, going up against premier players night in and night out.
As for defense lets agree to disagree. I have seen enough of Millsap to know that even if he is better at all in this department, it is not by much. He is overmatched on most nights, either in height/weight or on quickness. PFs who can put the ball on the floor can blow by him easily, and in the paint bigger PFs can easily post him up. He plays good team defense though and can block shots from the weakside(although that has gone down in recent years) but for the most part he is a tweener on both ends of the floor. The fact that the Jazz are even considering playing him at the 3 is proof enough. Not that he is a great fit at the 3 either.
Looks like you are in the wrong argument.
In terms of just basketball skills and production, if you did a ranking of PFs where would Millsap stand? Thats what was being discussed.
Age or current salary doesnt matter.
If you look at it that way, at WORST Scola is as good as Millsap.
Millsap hasnt even played an entire season as a starter, has he? He has done spot duty as a starter, at best. Those dont show up in your stats.
He doesnt need to. You are clutching at straws here. Not that Millsap is suddenly Hornacek-esque in his 3-pt shooting ability either just because he hit a few 3s early last season.
All said and done, the numbers are a wash. But Scola got his numbers by being a full time starter and being the 2nd or 3rd option on offense all the time, going up against premier players night in and night out.
As for defense lets agree to disagree. I have seen enough of Millsap to know that even if he is better at all in this department, it is not by much. He is overmatched on most nights, either in height/weight or on quickness. PFs who can put the ball on the floor can blow by him easily, and in the paint bigger PFs can easily post him up. He plays good team defense though and can block shots from the weakside(although that has gone down in recent years) but for the most part he is a tweener on both ends of the floor. The fact that the Jazz are even considering playing him at the 3 is proof enough. Not that he is a great fit at the 3 either.
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all that in bold is totally irrelevant. We are comparing player A vs player B purely in terms of basketball production, thats about it.
I could care less if Millsap makes less, or if he is going to be the longest tenured player in Jazz history or whatever.
The ranking is about who would you rather have over Millsap at starting PF, from a basketball point of view? Or simply put, who is better AT THIS POINT?
That's all there is to it.
If we were to take salaries and player willingness to play in Utah and all that, it would be a different discussion altogether.
But if age and durability is such an issue I would remind that last year was the first time Scola missed any games in the last 4 years. He has played in 82,82,82,74 games in the last 4 years, most of them as a starter.
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margodydek
Well-Known Member
I find it sad that I have to spell it out like this. It is a well-documented fact that the quickest and easiest way to win a championship in professional sports is to date a Kardashian. Frankly, I'm surprised Sports Science hasn't done a special to show how and why this is the case.
Numberica is correct. Millsap>Scola in every way. Did you watch them head-to-head last season? Millsap made Scola his bitch.
Just ask Rocket's fans.
Just ask Rocket's fans.
margodydek
Well-Known Member
Both get worked on defense. Millsap due to his size and Scola because he's greasy.
Just because a player is able to beat another player doesn't mean he is the overall better player.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Well said in both posts. Millsap is a dominant force OFF THE BENCH. He's developed a very good perimiter game partly out of necessity, as he just can't match up inside against the bigger starters at PF. Let Favors do the heavy lifting as the starter. His game is based on defense and put-backs right now, anyway. With scorers in Jefferson, Harris (and Hayward?), Derrick would complement the other starters. Millsap can come in as the super-sub he once was. And I agree with Numberica, his role would be expanded and he could still get 28-30 mins/per. An added benefit is that Paul would probably not get worn down as much.
Favors and Kanter still have some growing up to do. Derrick can probably play 25 mins, maybe 30 depending on conditioning and if he stays out of foul trouble. Kanter is extremely raw. I'd be surprised if he plays more than 10-15. And Okur is a complete unknown; he may not be able to play at all. If everyone is healthy, then yes, there's a logjam at the 4/5. But very few players go the full 82 games. Then it will be nice to finally have quality depth and not have to bring in guys like Elson or Collins. Millsap can also slide over to the 3 in certain situations, freeing up additional minutes for the bigs.
Only trade Paul (or Big Al) if/when Favors and Kanter have shown they can be top-level starters. And only trade those guys for quality starters or 6th-man types. Trading a starter for guys who would be role players doesn't make much sense.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Millsap just played an entire season as a starter. Where were you?
are'nt you just amazed that people continue to use this faulty logic all the time?
This is much like the Jazz philosophy of recruiting players like Amaechi or Price impressed by the fact they had one good game(or dunk) against the Jazz
If I had to pick a guy to play 35 mpg, I would go with Scola. If I had to pick a guy to be a 6th man, I would go with Millsap hands down. This is of course for a now scenario, I would pick Millsap hands down in a long term scenario because of age.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Until Favors AND Kanter are ready, Millsap should get loads of playing time. The team would get substantially worse with Scola. When (if) Favors are ready, Millsap will be an extremely valuable piece as a third big/big 3. Big Al will be the odd man out, as I doubt he'll be able to become a system player.