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The Morman hypothetical

Also, I'd like to thank everyone that contributed in this thread. Thanks for your answers.
 
Viny is for diversity of opinion unless their opinion does not coincide with his.

And yeah, the guy kind of looks like Viny, but too clean shaven to be him.

As for his sarcasm laded responses and loaded questions, I need to get Admiral Ackbar in here. Viny is sitting at his desk like Mr. Burns, wringing his hands and saying "Excellent" every time someone tries to post an honest response.

So of course I ignore Admiral Ackbar and walk right in . . .

Yes, Mormons believe man-on-man sex is wrong. We believe any sex outside of marriage is wrong. A sin. Atheists are not going to agree with that no matter what the religion. They don't believe in sin. They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do, so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject.

In their minds, religious people are stupid. Atheists can be such snobs. It makes them feel better to think they are smarter than others.

It is an argument that will not be won by either side until we die and see who was right. If the atheists are right . . . who cares. It's the end, blackness . . . you cease to exist. None of them will have any bit of their consciousness left to sit and gloat about it. No fingers to point in derision. Just gone . . . Hmm . . .
 
Edgewriter said:
Atheists are not going to agree with that no matter what the religion. They don't believe in sin. They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do, so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject.

In their minds, religious people are stupid. Atheists can be such snobs. It makes them feel better to think they are smarter than others.
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Ahahahahahaha!

C'mon man, what is that religious teaching thing about stones and glass houses? People who do not believe in any sort of supreme being are insulted all the time by things like, "I'll pray for both of us," or "I pity you haven't found God" or other crap like that. Religious people are SO much snobbier than atheist could ever hope to be. And with, "They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do," you imply that your way of "right and wrong" is somehow better than atheists "right and wrong," or worse yet, I could make the assumption that you believe atheists have no concept of right and wrong. This kind of stuff is why the concept of "holier than thou" exists. And this, "so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject," can be thrown right back out you.

The one thing I do agree with you on is that Vinylone is quite the ******* quite often.
 
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Very interesting question Vinny. My honest first response would be shock. My second response would be to tell them that I love them no matter what. My third response would be to ask when they started to feel that way and try to show some understanding. My fourth response would be to wonder where I went wrong (you wanted honesty right). After a period of introspection I would move on to other things and life would continue the same as before.
 
As an Atheist, I don't believe in sin but I certainly believe in right and wrong. There is a popular misconception that people who don't believe in God are amoral, and that couldn't be further from the truth. There are exceptions to the rule but most Atheists I know, have very strong moral convictions.
 
richgates said:
As an Atheist, I don't believe in sin but I certainly believe in right and wrong. There is a popular misconception that people who don't believe in God are amoral, and that couldn't be further from the truth. There are exceptions to the rule but most Atheists I know, have very strong moral convictions.
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What I understood from Edgewriter's post wasn't that Atheists don't believe in right and wrong, just that it differs from a God fearing person's view of it. For example, I don't cheat on my wife. I don't do it because I'm scared of her, or the consequences in this life (divorce, alimony, child support, etc). I don't do it because I believe in a God that views that as wrong and there would be consequences in the Afterlife. Atheists may choose not to cheat as well, and that's absolutely great. But they wouldn't choose not to do it for all of the same reasons I wouldn't.
 
catratcho said:
What I understood from Edgewriter's post wasn't that Atheists don't believe in right and wrong, just that it differs from a God fearing person's view of it. For example, I don't cheat on my wife. I don't do it because I'm scared of her, or the consequences in this life (divorce, alimony, child support, etc). I don't do it because I believe in a God that views that as wrong and there would be consequences in the Afterlife. Atheists may choose not to cheat as well, and that's absolutely great. But they wouldn't choose not to do it for all of the same reasons I wouldn't.
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Hi friend,,,

I also only do good things because I'll be punished in the afterlife if I don't. I think those athiests who only do good things because they appear like the right thing to do morally in this life aren't looking at the whole picture. What really matters is whether or not you'll get punished for it. Thanks for reading.

- Craig
 
I have read this bulliten board topic and what it says. I have foreclosed a reply,,,

----------------------------------------------

If my son/daughter told me they were homosexual, I would be disappointed in them and myself. These temptations are something we all must overcome. I have resisted the urge to be homosexual my whole life, so I expect them to as well.

One poster mentioned that he has strong faith that we can cure these homosexuals and make them heterosexual again. I think with enough love, we can make them heterosexual. Thanks for reading.

-Craig
 
so Craig, is it true you have a son, Tanner, who smells like dusty pickles????

Manscill and his wife Jana are the parents of eight children (Tanner Winslow being the one that smells like dusty pickles) and currently live in Lindon, Utah.
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LINK
(and what the heck would a dusty pickle smell like anyhow? or is this a situation for the urban dictionary?)
 
interesting, I just checked out the Urban Dictionary definition...

never would've guessed it in a million years.
 
Edgewriter said:
They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do, so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject.
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I am really hoping you are just being hyperbolic. While we might disagree on the individual applications of "right" and "wrong" as applied to certain actions, in my experience most religious people and most atheists have the exact same concepts of what "right" and "wrong" are.
 
One Brow said:
I am really hoping you are just being hyperbolic. While we might disagree on the individual applications of "right" and "wrong" as applied to certain actions, in my experience most religious people and most atheists have the exact same concepts of what "right" and "wrong" are.
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What I meant was that there are somethings that we believe are right or wrong that you do not because you don't share the faith.

For instance, as a Mormom we believe it is wrong for us to smoke or drink. For us it is a sin because we made covenants to god that we would not. I do not view others that smoke or drink as sinning by doing so unless they made similar promises to themselves or others. Maybe others of my faith would disagree with that, but I think the majority see it that way.

There are multiple reasons for those outside the church to avoid smoking and drinking, but most atheists would have no reason to think it was wrong to smoke or drink (not having made the same promises) unless they had a substance abuse problem or felt that someone elses smoking or drinking would impinge on their rights (then it is wrong for them to smoke in public and laws must be posted to ban them from doing so).

Now when it comes to Homosexuality, we have a similar issue. Mormons believe that sex is a sin unless done within marriage. All sex done outside of marriage is considered a sin. We are taught from the time we are old enough to understand that we should wait until we get married.

There are also multiple reasons for those that don't have religious beliefs to wait, but who would want to without extra motivation? In most of society, kids are taught that it is okay and perhaps even prefferable to "get it on" as often as they can. Most of my friends and family that are non members of the church have this ideal in their minds and I don't blame them any more than I do my friends that smoke or drink. I do appreciate that they don't shove it in my face all the time and I don't get after them or call them sinners or anything.

One doctrine of the church is that we are held to different standards by God because we made our promises to stay away from certain things. Thise that do not believe that what they are doing is wrong will not have the same resulting judgment as one that believed it was wrong and did it anyway.

Also for Douchey Mc Doucherson:
Hi friend,,,

I also only do good things because I'll be punished in the afterlife if I don't. I think those athiests who only do good things because they appear like the right thing to do morally in this life aren't looking at the whole picture. What really matters is whether or not you'll get punished for it. Thanks for reading.

- Craig
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This is what I meant by atheists being snobs.

It's not about punishment. It's not about fear of what will happen to us that motivates us. It is the desire to do the right thing. We don't believe that it will be pitchforks awaiting those that sin. We believe that we made promises before we came to earth and made promises after we got here. Hell will be when we stand before our heavenly father and remember all the promises we made and all the promises we broke and we will have to live with that for eternity.

Viny asked for honesty (in his sweet little sarcastic and manipulative way) and That is what I am giving you.
 
Edgewriter said:
What I meant was that there are somethings that we believe are right or wrong that you do not because you don't share the faith.
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So, because we disagree on particulars that may be right or wrong, you can't respect what I have to say on the subject?
 
One Brow said:
So, because we disagree on particulars that may be right or wrong, you can't respect what I have to say on the subject?
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I don't recall Edge disrespecting you in any way whatsoever. In fact, he wrote this:

Edge said:
Most of my friends and family that are non members of the church have this ideal in their minds and I don't blame them any more than I do my friends that smoke or drink.
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Seems fairly respectful to me.

He's simply trying to explain where he's coming from and why he believes what he believes. I've found Edge's posts to be some of the more thougtful, less obnoxious posts.
 
Edgewriter,,,

It looks like there is a little confusion or we got off on the wrong foot... I agree with you that our morals are like an athiests morals, but we have that extra incentive from afterlife rewards/punishments. So while they might do good for reasons pertaining to life, we do good for that, but mainly focusing on our rewards/punishments in the hereafter. I think it's a great reason to do the right thing.

I also agree that homosexuals in the church should wait until they can get married before having sex. So we agree more than you might think.

-Craig
 
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