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El Paso Shooting

The Thriller said:
Further proof that I’m actually dead and have been placed into the bad place. I have no idea how many times I’ve figured this out and have had my mind erased. But I’m almost certain I’m in the bad place no matter how many times I eat frozen yogurt from Menchies:



Certainly, our country isn’t this stupid, right?
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Can any gun experts tell me - what is approximate price of a rifle, that in theory is suitable for a 10 year old i.e when hypothetically there is reason that she to use it a la because of a bad guy or dangerous animal? More than 100 USD? I am pretty sure that should even if i offer a possibility between high end rifle (that when correctly used can stop a charging hippo, rhino, lion or bear) or some good electronic device (high end computer or tablet) to 10 year old, then the answer would be 99,99% an electronic device. The sad thing is that probably they won't say - please gift me a season pass to some theme park instead :-)
 
lauriandres said:
Can any gun experts tell me - what is approximate price of a rifle, that in theory is suitable for a 10 year old i.e when hypothetically there is reason that she to use it a la because of a bad guy or dangerous animal? More than 100 USD? I am pretty sure that should even if i offer a possibility between high end rifle (that when correctly used can stop a charging hippo, rhino, lion or bear) or some good electronic device (high end computer or tablet) to 10 year old, then the answer would be 99,99% an electronic device. The sad thing is that probably they won't say - please gift me a season pass to some theme park instead :)
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Why a 10 year old gets a rifle is not to stop bad guys. It is so that person can learn gun safety and how to shoot.

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. The people in the U.S. military who are exceptional at shooting did not learn to shoot in the military. They were exceptional shooters before they joined the military.

This is a military advantage I think very very few people appreciate. It is not a small advantage. It is very meaningful.
 
Gameface said:
Why a 10 year old gets a rifle is not to stop bad guys. It is so that person can learn gun safety and how to shoot.

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. The people in the U.S. military who are exceptional at shooting did not learn to shoot in the military. They were exceptional shooters before they joined the military.

This is a military advantage I think very very few people appreciate. It is not a small advantage. It is very meaningful.
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I agree with you, that children should learn basic firearm safety and usage already in elementary school. Hopefully the teacher-mentor is a firearm expert and not a gun nut. For example, the children should learn, whether the bullet from the specific firearm will pass the wall and car door, what happens when you shoot a brick wall 10 metres away from you with an AR-15 rifle etc; what firearm is the most suitable for protection should you need to do a cross country hike on foot through the Venezuela or Serengeti national park (i am not gun expert but i presume that those trips would require different kind of gear).
For my taste giving a serious firearm as a gift to 10 year old child is in the same league as having a la MS SQL Datacenter license as gift from my wife (and i am an IT person) for christmas.
Of course, doing some firearm practise in Estonia is awfully expensive compared US. For example:
https://tlk.ee/en/shooting-packages-for-one-person/
 
lauriandres said:
I agree with you, that children should learn basic firearm safety and usage already in elementary school. Hopefully the teacher-mentor is a firearm expert and not a gun nut. For example, the children should learn, whether the bullet from the specific firearm will pass the wall and car door, what happens when you shoot a brick wall 10 metres away from you with an AR-15 rifle etc; what firearm is the most suitable for protection should you need to do a cross country hike on foot through the Venezuela or Serengeti national park (i am not gun expert but i presume that those trips would require different kind of gear).
For my taste giving a serious firearm as a gift to 10 year old child is in the same league as having a la MS SQL Datacenter license as gift from my wife (and i am an IT person) for christmas.
Of course, doing some firearm practise in Estonia is awfully expensive compared US. For example:
https://tlk.ee/en/shooting-packages-for-one-person/
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That would be ideal.

However, the practical reality is that MANY people in the U.S. learn about firearms from their relatives. And MANY become competent to hit what they are shooting at as a result. Flaws in the curriculum or not, I bet there are more people competent handling a firearm in the U.S. than in the rest of the world combined.

Maybe that's a flaw? Maybe it's a saving grace?
 
Zombie said:
Ok, let's come up with another metaphor. There are thousands of McDonald's in California, compared to just twenty four in Wyoming. Now, does this mean that Californians are more likely to eat McDonald's than someone living here?
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There are more automobile accidents in america than there are in the galapogos islands. That proves that americans are worse drivers than people on galapogos island are.


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Gameface said:
That would be ideal.

However, the practical reality is that MANY people in the U.S. learn about firearms from their relatives. And MANY become competent to hit what they are shooting at as a result. Flaws in the curriculum or not, I bet there are more people competent handling a firearm in the U.S. than in the rest of the world combined.

Maybe that's a flaw? Maybe it's a saving grace?
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IMHO any skill which helps you survive in difficult conditions is a good skill. However, how do you measure handling a firearm?
Long time ago our small company had a part of birthday party in the firing range. We had a chance to shoot a la 5 shots from Sig Sauer pistol, 5 shots from a small revolver and 5 shots from a shot gun. I would say my adranaline was quite high knowing i have a dangerous device on my hands. Maybe practise helps i.e you have to shoot at least 100-500 rounds to get some kind of perspective about guns and their features?
 
From Axios a sister of left leaning politico.

While its homicide rate is not the highest in the U.S., Chicago has consistently had more total killings than any other U.S. city — with 27 people killed since the beginning of the month.

Why it matters: Racial segregation, wealth inequality, gangs and the inability of law enforcement to solve crimes have fueled the gun violence epidemic — and a handful of minority, impoverished neighborhoods have received the brunt of the impact




https://www.axios.com/chicago-gun-v...ics-4addeeec-d8d8-4ce7-a26b-81d428c14836.html

I don't care to get into this today but what this article is saying is exactly what I'm trying to portray. Look at the maps and how congested some of the bad areas are with shootings.

It baffles me that you guys scoff at this. It's almost like you really don't give a **** about these people dying. I'm not saying that to be rude but most of you are just condescending assholes when I bring up that these people are in serious trouble.
 
The Thriller said:
Not to prolong this obviously exhausted debate, but why shouldn’t gun by suicide count towards gun violence statistics?
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448529/

Objectives. We analyzed urban–rural differences in intentional firearm death.

Results. The most urban counties had 1.03 (95% confidence interval [CI]=0.87, 1.20) times the adjusted firearm death rate of the most rural counties. The most rural counties experienced 1.54 (95% CI=1.29, 1.83) times the adjusted firearm suicide rate of the most urban. The most urban counties experienced 1.90 (95% CI=1.50, 2.40) times the adjusted firearm homicide rate of the most rural. Similar opposing trends were not found for nonfirearm suicide or homicide.

Conclusions. Firearm suicide in rural counties is as important a public health problem as firearm homicide in urban counties. Policymakers should become aware that intentional firearm deaths affect all types of communities in the United States.
 
Gunfire on school grounds disproportionately affects students of color, occurring most often at schools with high enrollments of minority students. Although racial/ethnic minority students may not succumb to gun violence in mass shootings at the same rate as White children do, they still fall victim to and are exposed to gun violence at higher rates. Almost 3,000 children are shot and killed every year in the United States, with guns taking the lives of 10 times more Black children than White children (Fowler, Dahlberg, Haileyesus, Gutierrez, & Bacon, 2017).
 
JazzyFresh said:
Twenty percent of all firearm homicides occur in the 25 largest U.S. cities (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, CDC, 2011). Of the 12,979 firearm homicides in the United States in 2015, 81% occurred in urban areas (CDC, 2017). The disparity is even greater in certain geographies of large cities, specifically those that are more racially and ethnically diverse.

https://www.ncfr.org/ncfr-report/winter-2018/gun-violence-and-minority-experience
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Dude, everyone agrees and understands that where the most people are (like the 25 largest US cities) is where the most gun homicides are. Of course it's that way.
Just like the 25 largest US cities is also where you are going to find the most car accidents, the most cavities, the most ingrown toenails, the most divorces, the most heart attacks, the most donations to charities, the most church members, the most rapes, the most bald people,..... Basically the 25 biggest US cities is where you will find the most of everything that humans do. Cause that's where the most humans are.

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fishonjazz said:
Dude, everyone agrees and understands that where the most people are (like the 25 largest US cities) is where the most gun homicides are. Of course it's that way.
Just like the 25 largest US cities is also where you are going to find the most car accidents, the most cavities, the most ingrown toenails, the most divorces, the most heart attacks, the most donations to charities, the most church members, the most rapes, the most bald people,..... Basically the 25 biggest US cities is where you will find the most of everything that humans do. Cause that's where the most humans are.

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Ok. Then why are people arguing, calling me names? All I've been trying to do is bring focus to this as I don't see anybody ever talking about it. It gets deflected into some stupid numbers game.

As I posted 80+% of gun violence is in Urban areas, a lot of it being minorities as the victims. Nearly every single one of these guns are illegal. Why is the focus "ASSAULT RIFLES!!!!!!!" Instead of these areas? How does common sense gun reform get these people out of poverty, selling drugs and gangs? How does that get these kids a proper education?

As I've said and been called an idiot for saying the problems are systematic. The left leaning articles I posted are saying exactly what I'm saying. We actually start helping these people just watch the gun deaths drop. Our politicians don't want that though.

Am I some stupid redneck devil for trying to talk about these issues? Hell, you guys seem to think so.
 
JazzyFresh said:
Ok. Then why are people arguing, calling me names? All I've been trying to do is bring focus to this as I don't see anybody ever talking about it. It gets deflected into some stupid numbers game.

As I posted 80+% of gun violence is in Urban areas, a lot of it being minorities as the victims. Nearly every single one of these guns are illegal. Why is the focus "ASSAULT RIFLES!!!!!!!" Instead of these areas? How does common sense gun reform get these people out of poverty, selling drugs and gangs? How does that get these kids a proper education?

As I've said and been called an idiot for saying the problems are systematic. The left leaning articles I posted are saying exactly what I'm saying. We actually start helping these people just watch the gun deaths drop. Our politicians don't want that though.

Am I some stupid redneck devil for trying to talk about these issues? Hell, you guys seem to think so.
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Dude this has been talked about a million times. You just haven't been around for it apparently.
I promise you that it's no secret that poor highly populated areas with lots of guns are where the most shootings happen. We all know that. This isn't knew.

Probably why the left talks about racism, wealth inequality, and gun control so much. Oh and bring pro choice (and pro birth control/sex education) also helps with population control in those poor areas too if the facilities are provided and cheap.

When these issues are brought up the right is like we need more guns, don't talk about racism, and let's lower taxes on the rich!

To many people on the right helping people is bad. It's socialism! Those poor inner city folks just need to pull up their bootstraps!
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JazzyFresh said:
We actually start helping these people just watch the gun deaths drop.
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Helping people costs money.
How do we pay for the help these people need? Taxes? That's socialism! The number 1 bogeyman of the Republican party.
Good luck getting people the help they need. Most Republicans seem to think they don't need help. In fact they believe the opposite. If you help them then they will just be lazy and reliant on the help being given which means they won't ever learn how to help themselves.

It's nice to see you posting like a socialist for one post at least though

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fishonjazz said:
Dude this has been talked about a million times. You just haven't been around for it apparently.
I promise you that it's no secret that poor highly populated areas with lots of guns are where the most shootings happen. We all know that. This isn't knew.

Probably why the left talks about racism, wealth inequality, and gun control so much. Oh and bring pro choice (and pro birth control/sex education) also helps with population control in those poor areas too if the facilities are provided and cheap.

When these issues are brought up the right is like we need more guns, don't talk about racism, and let's lower taxes on the rich!

To many people on the right helping people is bad. It's socialism! Those poor inner city folks just need to pull up their bootstraps!
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Lol I've been arguing this very point for nearly a day straight.

My very first post was about Urban gun violence yet people insisted I was wrong
 
fishonjazz said:
Helping people costs money.
How do we pay for the help these people need? Taxes? That's socialism! The number 1 bogeyman of the Republican party.
Good luck getting people the help they need. Most Republicans seem to think they don't need help. In fact they believe the opposite. If you help them then they will just be lazy and reliant on the help being given which means they won't ever learn how to help themselves.

It's nice to see you posting like a socialist for one post at least though

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Money didn't fix Baltimore...
Money didn't fix Chicago
Detroit?
California is rich but is plagued with homelessness
Obama did what in 8 years?

To think throwing money at the problem will just fix everything has been disproven.
 
JazzyFresh said:
Money didn't fix Baltimore...
Money didn't fix Chicago
Detroit?
California is rich but is plagued with homelessness
Obama did what in 8 years?

To think throwing money at the problem will just fix everything has been disproven.
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I quoted YOU saying that we should help these people in Chicago.
How do you help them without money?

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JazzyFresh said:
Money didn't fix Baltimore...
Money didn't fix Chicago
Detroit?
California is rich but is plagued with homelessness
Obama did what in 8 years?

To think throwing money at the problem will just fix everything has been disproven.
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So you were just kidding about saying they need help. Gotcha.


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