The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

[fishonjazz]

What specific crime did the Bidens commit?

Also, it is in fact a crime to solicit a foreign government to investigate your political rival. It's actually very straightforward.



Impeachment does not undo an election, Trump still got to be president, and impeachment doesn't automatically make Hillary president. That's not how this works. In fact the constitution explicitly lays out a path for removal of presidents who are not fulfilling their oaths of office, and places it in the hands of the most directly representative branch of the government. That branches power was recently handed to the Democrats by the people in a recent election.


If someone is committing crimes to help themselves win an upcoming election, that is to say cheating, the remedy isn't to simply hold that election. That's garbage logic.


You mean, make money overseas while his dad was vice president? Why then are the Trump children not in the midst of full blown investigations?

Helluva post.

And I just want to use a metaphor that's basketball related to explain to the Trumpers why going after bidens and Hilary's "corruption" and only their corruption is not ok.

So let's say there is a referee (Trump) who has money (the presidency) riding on the jazz (republican candidate) in a game game (election).
This referee (trump) calls any and all violations against the rockets (Biden, Hilary) but the jazz (Republicans) have zero violations called against them.

Now as a jazz fan (republicans) that would great for the jazz (republicans) to be able to win the game (election)

But I would hope that the jazz fans (republicans) wouldn't be ok with that.

I know I wouldn't be ok with an official only calling things against the jazz opponent even though it would help the jazz win. And I'm a huge jazz fan.

And that's not even taking into account the fact that Trump is asking other countries to help him.

In my metaphor that would be like the referee grabbing a fan out of the crowd and telling him to only call things against one team and not the other.

And that's not even taking into account if trump is bribing or threatening these countries to get the help he desires.

And that's not even taking into account how he is trying to prevent people from participating in the investigation. If you are innocent and the bidens are guilty then you should be doing all you can to help the inquiry.

Why hasn't Trump been investigating the people who actually got arrested all around him? Hmmmmm


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Jazzta]

What specific crime did the Bidens commit?

Also, it is in fact a crime to solicit a foreign government to investigate your political rival. It's actually very straightforward.



Impeachment does not undo an election, Trump still got to be president, and impeachment doesn't automatically make Hillary president. That's not how this works. In fact the constitution explicitly lays out a path for removal of presidents who are not fulfilling their oaths of office, and places it in the hands of the most directly representative branch of the government. That branches power was recently handed to the Democrats by the people in a recent election.


If someone is committing crimes to help themselves win an upcoming election, that is to say cheating, the remedy isn't to simply hold that election. That's garbage logic.


You mean, make money overseas while his dad was vice president? Why then are the Trump children not in the midst of full blown investigations?

LOOOOOOL

Zombie, perhaps the Bidens didn’t commit a crime because of how embedded the federal law is with corporate law. But to come out blabbing about Trump’s ties to Russia while his son Hunter was getting paid $50000/month while being on the board of a Russian state sponsored oil company is beyond bull****. Let’s get real here, is this about integrity or is it about replacing Trump with just another POS corrupt politician.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Are you not in the pro impeachment crowd because you don't think he has done anything impeachable or you just want him to remain president regardless of what he does?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

I am not aware of anything he has done that is impeachable. IMO the attempt to impeach him has been mostly politically driven.

 

[Gameface]

LOOOOOOL

Zombie, perhaps the Bidens didn’t commit a crime because of how embedded the federal law is with corporate law. But to come out blabbing about Trump’s ties to Russia while his son Hunter was getting paid $50000/month while being on the board of a Russian state sponsored oil company is beyond bull****. Let’s get real here, is this about integrity or is it about replacing Trump with just another POS corrupt politician.

I think it's about the very specific act of using the office of the U.S. President and withholding of congressionally approved aid to pressure a foreign leader to investigate a political rival.

I also find it pretty entertaining that the crime Hunter Biden seems to be accused of is holding a position for which he isn't qualified. I mean that's the basis of the allegation Trump is making... Trump.

As far as I know it isn't a crime to be hired into a position you're not qualified for. It's also not a crime for a company to put you into a position and pay you whatever amount they want regardless of your qualifications. If it was both Trump and those who voted for him would be in big trouble.

And Biden being guilty or corrupt DOES NOT EQUAL Trump being innocent. What Trump did was impeachable regardless of Biden's possible guilt. Don't forget, Trump didn't ask for the company Hunter was working for to be investigated, he asked for the Biden's to be investigated.

 

[Jazzta]

I think it's about the very specific act of using the office of the U.S. President and withholding of congressionally approved aid to pressure a foreign leader to investigate a political rival.

I also find it pretty entertaining that the crime Hunter Biden seems to be accused of is holding a position for which he isn't qualified. I mean that's the basis of the allegation Trump is making... Trump.

As far as I know it isn't a crime to be hired into a position you're not qualified for. It's also not a crime for a company to put you into a position and pay you whatever amount they want regardless of your qualifications. If it was both Trump and those who voted for him would be in big trouble.

And Biden being guilty or corrupt DOES NOT EQUAL Trump being innocent. What Trump did was impeachable regardless of Biden's possible guilt. Don't forget, Trump didn't ask for the company Hunter was working for to be investigated, he asked for the Biden's to be investigated.

Agreed that Biden being guilty or corrupt does not equal Trump being innocent. Seems like we can agree that there are much more suited people to be POTUS than Trump or Biden, that’s what I can certainly take from all of this mess.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I don't have time to respond to all of your post, but here's an analysis article comparing the whistleblower complaint with the call transcript using direct quotes. It finds an extremely close match.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...accurate-white-house-keeps-showing-how-it-is/

But who cares? The transcript itself is damning enough. "But first, we'd like this favor..." Plus Trump and team have STOPPED DENYING the allegation. Have you not noticed that? Their statements have gone from "we didn't do it" to "it's perfectly fine that we did it."

I can't read the article as I'm not a WaPo subscriber. It does not surprise me that they would claim a close match because they are among the most liberally slanted papers. My recollection is that the whistleblower claimed that Trump brought up Biden 7 or 8 times. The transcript shows once. The whistleblower claimed that Trump tied the aid package to the Biden issue. The transcript does not support that. These things matter a lot, and I can only assume that is the reason that Schiff decided to add those sorts of things when he made up the version of the transcript that he read at the congressional hearing.

 

[fishonjazz]

I am not aware of anything he has done that is impeachable. IMO the attempt to impeach him has been mostly politically driven.

You could have just said "I am blind"
That would have worked just the same.
Regardless you should at least support getting to the bottom of things (the inquiry) and you should at least see that Trump forbidding people to cooperate with the inquiry is wrong. If in fact he is innocent he should want everyone to cooperate with the inquiry.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[olden_undercover]

I can't read the article as I'm not a WaPo subscriber. It does not surprise me that they would claim a close match because they are among the most liberally slanted papers. My recollection is that the whistleblower claimed that Trump brought up Biden 7 or 8 times. The transcript shows once. The whistleblower claimed that Trump tied the aid package to the Biden issue. The transcript does not support that. These things matter a lot, and I can only assume that is the reason that Schiff decided to add those sorts of things when he made up the version of the transcript that he read at the congressional hearing.

You can't really pin the credulity of the whistleblower's report on details not matching the transcript: The transcript is an unofficial, rough transcript released by the White House of the man potentially having articles of impeachment brought against him-- a man with a well-established track record of being, shall we say, less than truthful.

 

[fishonjazz]

My recollection is that the whistleblower claimed that Trump brought up Biden 7 or 8 times. The transcript shows once. The whistleblower claimed that Trump tied the aid package to the Biden issue. The transcript does not support that. These things matter a lot,

Those things actually don't matter at all.
He contacted a foreign entity (via his lawyer) to investigate his political opponent. That's literally all that matters. That's a no no.
He then said, on camera, that China should investigate Biden as well. Now since he didn't actually contact China to investigate Biden he didn't do anything impeachable simply by saying that.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

What specific crime did the Bidens commit?

Also, it is in fact a crime to solicit a foreign government to investigate your political rival. It's actually very straightforward.



Impeachment does not undo an election, Trump still got to be president, and impeachment doesn't automatically make Hillary president. That's not how this works. In fact the constitution explicitly lays out a path for removal of presidents who are not fulfilling their oaths of office, and places it in the hands of the most directly representative branch of the government. That branches power was recently handed to the Democrats by the people in a recent election.


If someone is committing crimes to help themselves win an upcoming election, that is to say cheating, the remedy isn't to simply hold that election. That's garbage logic.


You mean, make money overseas while his dad was vice president? Why then are the Trump children not in the midst of full blown investigations?

I've already replied to most of these points but I will quickly do it again.

Hunter Biden made a salary much higher than an average Board member and many, many times higher than an average Joe for providing something to Burisma. What was it that he provided? To many people it appears that the only thing of value he had to trade for this massive income was his father's influence. I'm willing to say I was wrong about what he got paid for if someone (Hunter himself would be an excellent choice) will step forward and provide a plausible explanation of the non-influence-peddling service he was actually providing.

Your claims about foreign solicitation are laughable. Our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, have contact which could be conveniently defined by their opposition as meddling or solicitation on an almost daily basis. I've seen the transcript of a Bill Clinton call where he asked Tony Blair for a political favor in election season. I could show you numerous instances of foreign donations made to American candidates. It is very convenient of you to claim that Trump's comments have crossed some arbitrary line, but the creation of this line is only because you want a reason to impeach him. I do not think your claims in this regard are going to hold up.

The biggest crime I see in the upcoming election is that the Dems are probably going to nominate yet another candidate who Trump will have a legit shot at beating. It blows my mind that they can't come up with someone better.

Let's see the basis of your accusations against the Trump children.

 

[JazzyFresh]

I've already replied to most of these points but I will quickly do it again.

Hunter Biden made a salary much higher than an average Board member and many, many times higher than an average Joe for providing something to Burisma. What was it that he provided? To many people it appears that the only thing of value he had to trade for this massive income was his father's influence. I'm willing to say I was wrong about what he got paid for if someone (Hunter himself would be an excellent choice) will step forward and provide a plausible explanation of the non-influence-peddling service he was actually providing.

Your claims about foreign solicitation are laughable. Our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, have contact which could be conveniently defined by their opposition as meddling or solicitation on an almost daily basis. I've seen the transcript of a Bill Clinton call where he asked Tony Blair for a political favor in election season. I could show you numerous instances of foreign donations made to American candidates. It is very convenient of you to claim that Trump's comments have crossed some arbitrary line, but only the creation of this line is only because you want a reason to impeach him. I do not think your claims in this regard are going to hold up.

The biggest crime I see in the upcoming election is that the Dems are probably going to nominate yet another candidate who Trump will have a legit shot at beating. It blows my mind that they can't come up with someone better.

Let's see the basis of your accusations against the Trump children.

Look no further than the Steele dossier paid for by Hillary. Funny nobody gives a **** Hillary paid Steele, a foreign agent,, for dirt on Trump.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

You could have just said "I am blind"
That would have worked just the same.
Regardless you should at least support getting to the bottom of things (the inquiry) and you should at least see that Trump forbidding people to cooperate with the inquiry is wrong. If in fact he is innocent he should want everyone to cooperate with the inquiry.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

I will be happy to say that I'm blinded by justice if you will admit that you are blinded by hate.

Regarding cooperating with the inquiry, it does not surprise me that Trump is using these tactics in light of the fact that his enemies have been in all out attack mode since before he was even sworn in. The whole Mueller thing took a lot out of everyone, and even though I'm sure you won't admit it, that investigation ultimately laid a big, fat egg. The report did not say anything remotely close to what the proponents of the investigation claimed for years that it was going to. This ridiculousness has laid the foundation for many people to be completely unimpressed by more of the same behavior by the never-Trumpers.

If I decide that you ought to be investigated are you somehow admitting your guilt by saying, "Take a hike!"

 

[LogGrad98]

dude please be serious. You can be a traitor to your church, a traitor to your cause, a traitor to your team, a traitor to your family, a traitor to your friends, a traitor to your spouse, a traitor to your school, a traitor to your company. The list goes on and on. I bet there is more usage of “traitor” to professional sports teams than traitors to countries (treason).

“Inexorably linked” — come on. The notion that traitor is commonly just treason to your country is patently untrue. Trump is a mutidimensional traitor: his family, his spouse, humanity, his colleagues who he throws under the bus, his party, and yes, his country.

Oh yeah? I can be a traitor to whatever I want. You're not the boss of me!

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

You can't really pin the credulity of the whistleblower's report on details not matching the transcript: The transcript is an unofficial, rough transcript released by the White House of the man potentially having articles of impeachment brought against him-- a man with a well-established track record of being, shall we say, less than truthful.

You believe that the transcript is inaccurate and that Trump somehow meddled with it? If that was the case don't you think that someone else who was on the call would have held up their hand and said, "Wait just a second!" Remember, Trump supporters weren't the only people listening. In other words, your accusation simply doesn't hold water.

 

[fishonjazz]

I will be happy to say that I'm blinded by justice if you will admit that you are blinded by hate.

Regarding cooperating with the inquiry, it does not surprise me that Trump is using these tactics in light of the fact that his enemies have been in all out attack mode since before he was even sworn in. The whole Mueller thing took a lot out of everyone, and even though I'm sure you won't admit it, that investigation ultimately laid a big, fat egg. The report did not say anything remotely close to what the proponents of the investigation claimed for years that it was going to. This ridiculousness has laid the foundation for many people to be completely unimpressed by more of the same behavior by the never-Trumpers.

If I decide that you ought to be investigated are you somehow admitting your guilt by saying, "Take a hike!"

Binded by Justice? If you want Justice then you should want the investigation to continue unimpeded. You don't want Justice though. You want your team to win.

Lol his enemies.
That's what I would call the cops if had committed a crime and they were after me. Or what I would call the prosecutor if I had committed a crime.

As for your last question, I would say investigate to your hearts content. How can I help?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[JazzyFresh]

What we could do is put the inquiry to a vote that allows both parties equal access to said whistleblower. Well the whistleblower wasn't even there so let's also put the one who leaked most likely classified info to said whistleblower on the podium.


Seems fair right? Then we could get actual answers instead of hearsay? It's obvious the Democratic party doesn't want that.

 

[fishonjazz]

What we could do is put the inquiry to a vote that allows both parties equal access to said whistleblower. Well the whistleblower wasn't even there so let's also put the one who leaked most likely classified info to said whistleblower on the podium.


Seems fair right? Then we could get actual answers instead of hearsay? It's obvious the Democratic party doesn't want that.

We could do lots of things.
Alas, there is a procedure already in place (this isn't the first impeachment inquiry on history) and that is the procedure being used.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Jazzta]

This thread is so much fun

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Look no further than the Steele dossier paid for by Hillary. Funny nobody gives a **** Hillary paid Steele, a foreign agent,, for dirt on Trump.

That's a completely different type of situation! I'll give

Binded by Justice? If you want Justice then you should want the investigation to continue unimpeded. You don't want Justice though. You want your team to win.

Lol his enemies.
That's what I would call the cops if had committed a crime and they were after me. Or what I would call the prosecutor if I had committed a crime.

As for your last question, I would say investigate to your hearts content. How can I help?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

I did not say I was blinded by justice. I said that I would say that if you admitted that you were blinded by hate (which you didn't). It was a clumsy way of putting it, but I'm not blind to the facts. I just think that your "facts" are wrong.

On your second point, it's pretty clear that Trump's political enemies are not cops.

And LOL on me investigating you. You know it's not going to happen, but if it did I think you could also admit that you will have had enough after three years.

 

[olden_undercover]

You believe that the transcript is inaccurate and that Trump somehow meddled with it? If that was the case don't you think that someone else who was on the call would have held up their hand and said, "Wait just a second!" Remember, Trump supporters weren't the only people listening. In other words, your accusation simply doesn't hold water.

Oh, that's totally on me-- I thought Trump's people generated and released the transcript. Thanks for pointing that out. My bad.

I'm still not sure how a discrepancy in the number of times the name "Biden" was said is particularly relevant, though. If you think it really is, why not apply the same generous logical standard to what many believe was pretty clearly implied by Trump's statements in the transcript, i.e. "But I want you to do us a favor..."? How, in the larger context of withholding military aid, etc., does that not at least make you think it ought to be investigated as potential extortion/quid pro quo?