2020 Presidential election

[The Thriller]

It's worth noting that Bevin was an incredibly unpopular Governor, and while this is a good win in a race Trump tried to nationalize and make about him, I'm hesitant to read too much into it with regard to other races.

There’s always some nuance here.

it should be noted that mcconnell has consistently been polled as one of the most unpopular senators in the nation. If he’s rattled over re-election? Things could change quickly in the senate.

 

[silesian]

Some of the greatest beneficiaries of single payer systems are small and large business owners. No longer are they responsible for proving health insurance through ever increasing insurance costs.

For far too long we’ve been held ransom by big health insurance industry.

Again, there’s a reason why we’re the only industrialized country that has such a backwards system.

Yeah I’m not a Medicare for all guy but you can’t ignore these benefits. It actually would improve job mobility since people stick to **** jobs to keep their health care. Think of all the waste in corporate America to administer health care programs. All gone.

 

[Zombie]

There’s always some nuance here.

it should be noted that mcconnell has consistently been polled as one of the most unpopular senators in the nation. If he’s rattled over re-election? Things could change quickly in the senate.

McConnell in particular should be worried I agree, he is also not popular in his home state.

One thing I think we can read into a little bit - between this and the Virginia legislature flipping, Democrats are more energized than Republicans. Impeachment is not getting R's fired up to vote.

 

[The Thriller]

For serious posters here, there are 3 main models of health care systems out there for industrialized countries:

1. Beveridge system: UK
This is a true socialized medicine model. Think of doctors, hospitals, etc as firefighters and teachers. The state is owns the hospitals and employees are government paid employees.

2. Bismarck System: Germany
Doctors, hospitals, etc remain privatized. Think of our system with insurance companies, but they’re forced to be nonprofit.

3. Medicare System: Canada
Hospitals, doctors, etc remain privatized. However, they all must primarily accept the state owned and funded Medicare plan. Medicare is funded by taxes/premiums paid by all citizens.

you can read more about their advantages and disadvantages here:
https://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/health_care_systems_four_basic_models.php

these 3 models are used as models for countries like Japan, South Korea, Switzerland, France, etc.

we use all 3 in America and it wrecks havoc in our overall costs and quality.

for those of you interested in reading a great book on these models:
Amazon product ASIN 0143118218
For those who think their insurance is fine and that we don’t need to do anything but continue with the status quo:
Amazon product ASIN 1594206759
if you want to stop sounding dumb and finally be well informed and educated, you have some homework reading.

 

[The Thriller]

Love this

 

[The Thriller]

It's worth noting that Bevin was an incredibly unpopular Governor, and while this is a good win in a race Trump tried to nationalize and make about him, I'm hesitant to read too much into it with regard to other races.

Interesting.

 

[Red]

So if some sicko makes a demented video about the upcoming Democratic Nominee you would encourage everyone to watch it and rail against the nominee because of a video that he/she/they was not involved in?

If you read my original comment, it expressed regret at the low esteem in which our independent press is now held, since I believe a press that is free to adopt an adversarial position toward our political leadership is what has always made our free press the "watchdog" of democracy. And, in that video that you are referring to, the figure representing Trump is acting violent toward several members of the media, among other segments of society. My focus was on him shown doing violence to members of our free press, be in print, or broadcast journalism.

I don't believe Trump created the video, which I believe is what you were asking me. If, however, I consider that the president, on many, many occasions has referred to the free press I am myself referring to above, as "the enemy of the people", then, yes, certainly he has contributed, among his followers, his supporters, and his cult, to the anger and hatred of the press that most certainly comes through in that video. Just as he bears some responsibility for the words he has used to demonize many immigrants.

The president's words count. I take him seriously. When he tells American citizens who are not white to "go back to the country they came from", and when he labels our free press "the enemy of the people", then, yes, he bears some responsibility for the attitude his followers embrace on those two subjects.

He did not produce the video in question. Would it have been produced absent the attitudes expressed by Trump over the past 3 years? No, likely not. I don't see how it would have been produced without the maker taking his/her cue from the attitude and words of the president himself. Even were Trump to condemn the video( and did he, I forget?), he would still be responsible for his contribution to the demonization of the watchdog of our democracy, a free press, a press free to disagree and criticize the president without being labeled "the enemy of the people".

Anyway, that's where I was coming from, regardless of your opinion of me.

 

[silesian]

Love thisView attachment 8433

there should be a constitutional amendment against this. Just like the one that stops people from burning american flags

 

[One Brow]

Because I feel the wait could and would be much longer. Britian and Canada for example you can be waiting 19 weeks to see a doctor.

In the US, right now, under Medicare, senior citizens don't have long waits.

Who now paying our doctors and with free healthcare and 300+ million(fixed from billion lol) people where do these doctors come from. I can see any doctor I want right now, will that exist under Warren's plan?

Well, you can't see any doctor you want if they don't take your insurance, unless you are willing to pay the full office visit cost yourself. I'm sure under Warren's plan, paying the cost will still be an option. So, yes.

B) Thats why I'm simply asking for numbers. If I'm taxed 40+% like in Canada I'm paying far more. If I'm taxed 25% then ok. But I don't buy that. Most countries with this type of Medicare pay a ton.

I already pay a ton, and so does my employer. The real question is if we would pay more.

C) so what happens when you don't need your premiums? You're paying them regardless under Medicare. What happens if I don't even need a doctor? I'm still getting taxed a bunch.

That's how insurance works. You have to pay for car insurance even when you are a very safe driver.

 

[The Thriller]

Spin spin spin



Donald tweeting this out... Isn’t this a sign of panic and worry? I don’t think he’d be tweeting this if there wasn’t cause for Moscow Mitch to worry. Btw, Mitch is even less popular than Bevin.



Wait is the GOP chair saying that Kentucky was a blue state before Trump’s rally? Ummm...



Welp

 

[One Brow]

So if some sicko makes a demented video about the upcoming Democratic Nominee you would encourage everyone to watch it and rail against the nominee because of a video that he/she/they was not involved in?

If they retweeted the video to promote it, absolutely.

 

[JazzyFresh]

It begins, “Waiting for treatment has become a defining characteristic of Canadian health care,” and reports that the median wait for treatment across all provinces and some 12 medical specialties is now 19.8 weeks.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/braun-how-much-patience-do-patients-need

Canada Population 35 mill
US population 330 mill


Just something else to think about when you're not thinking about pulling 52 trillion dollars out of thin air.

 

[JazzyFresh]

In the US, right now, under Medicare, senior citizens don't have long waits.



Well, you can't see any doctor you want if they don't take your insurance, unless you are willing to pay the full office visit cost yourself. I'm sure under Warren's plan, paying the cost will still be an option. So, yes.



I already pay a ton, and so does my employer. The real question is if we would pay more.



That's how insurance works. You have to pay for car insurance even when you are a very safe driver.

Just providing evidence from multiple countries that you have no clue. And ps older people under Medicare see private doctors. Still waiting for you numbers on how we pay 52 trillion. You have no clue I take it.


Yet waiting times vary dramatically across Sweden's 21 counties responsible for financing hospitals. One dental patient in central Dalarna county told AFP that six months passed before his check-up, while emergency room queues at Stockholm's largest hospitals average four hours. The 2016 nationwide median wait for prostate cancer surgery was 120 days, but 271 days in the northern county of Vasterbotten, official figures show.

Swedes also complain about not being able to see their own regular general practitioner - and the ensuing lack of continuity - as a growing number of doctors and nurses are temporary hires employed by staffing companies.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businesstimes.com.sg/consumer/swedes-face-problems-with-health-care-system?amp

 

[JazzyFresh]

Britain's Version Of 'Medicare For All' Is Struggling With Long Waits For Care

Long waits for care are endemic to government-run, single-payer systems like the NHS. Yet some U.S. lawmakers want to import that model from across the pond. That would be a massive blunder.

Consider how long it takes to get care at the emergency room in Britain. Government data show that hospitals in England only saw 84.2% of patients within four hours in February. That’s well below the country’s goal of treating 95% of patients within four hours — a target the NHS hasn’t hit since 2015.

 

[JazzyFresh]

And I do want to say wait times are bad here but imagine how much worse they may be when everyone and anybody can go see a doctor over a paper cut or cough.

 

[Zombie]

And I do want to say wait times are bad here but imagine how much worse they may be when everyone and anybody can go see a doctor over a paper cut or cough.

Are you alleging that the wait times in other countries are caused by people seeking medical treatment for which there is no need?

 

[JazzyFresh]

Are you alleging that the wait times in other countries are caused by people seeking medical treatment for which there is no need?

Not the only or even main reason but yeah. One of the reasons wait times are so bad in Canada is too many people, not enough doctors. Now when someone wants to see a free doctor over a normal cold, which right now they may not think about it, yeah that's pushing someone else back. Now should someone be able to go see a doctor over a common cold? Sure, I personally wouldn't, but it will add to the log. As I've said wait times are already bad enough

 

[JazzyFresh]

Are you alleging that the wait times in other countries are caused by people seeking medical treatment for which there is no need?

Now I want to ask you a question. Do you think that if everyone has insurance the wait times would go down? If so explain. We already have a shortage of physicians but suddenly 44+ million who are uninsured including illegals and the shortage of doctors will suddenly disappear?

 

[Zombie]

Now I want to ask you a question. Do you think that if everyone has insurance the wait times would go down? If so explain. We already have a shortage of physicians but suddenly 44+ million who are uninsured including illegals and the shortage of doctors will suddenly disappear?

How about you answer my question first?

Oops, I missed your first post. So there's actually no correlation between how a healthcare system is paid for and what wait times are like. We have wait times worse than Canada in some parts of the country, while in the UK its actually easier to get in to see a doctor same day.

What you are doing is only describing one side of the equation. Right now a lot of uninsured people go to the ER for care, some because they know they can't afford to see a doctor and won't be turned away (you and I are currently picking up the tab for their bill), others because they are waiting until their condition is progressing to the point that could have been avoided if they had insurance or could otherwise afford to see a doctor.

So yeah, the bottom line here is that citizens of countries with universal Healthcare live longer healthier lives than we do, pay less for their care, and are happier with it.

 

[JazzyFresh]

How about you answer my question first?

I did.