The Honesty of Transgender Identity
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fishonjazz
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1) I don't recall anyone presenting evidence that Ms. Yaniv had male genetalia.
2) I've read that waxing ********* is a particular specialty. If you aren't trained to wax *********, you can't be cited for not doing so, and who would want you to do so?
3) Last I heard, a Brazilian wax did not involve ********* at all. It removes pubic hair.
If you think this type of reaction is evidence that you really don't hate transgender people, you are mistaken.
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By all means, name the assumptions you think I am making in this thread. That should be entertaining.
Never once, for the last 20 years, have I claimed that this board is suppressing me in any fashion (expect in reference to one topic of discussion with one particular poster). I really have to wonder: where are you getting this from? Is this projection because you feel suppressed?
I agree there will be angry people. Is the solution that trans Mary not be allowed to compete against cis Suzy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarmila_Kratochvílová
Lots of claims of doping, not so much of being transgender.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/800_metres#Continental_records
Not too much ahead of the closest competitors, not more so than David Rudisha.
Hotdog
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There is difference between believing the transgender person feels a certain way and believing what scientific facts say. Of course I believe these people believe what they are saying. I wouldn't l have any other reason to believe otherwise. Why would they go through all of it if they didn't? The question is about facts. The facts are males and females have different chromosomes and body parts. What the transgender person believes makes no difference. It has no impact on the facts.
Im not even sure I understand what you are even trying to say with this statement "people who clearly do not believe in the honesty of transgender identity" Who's or what honesty are you talking about?
I can honestly say this: I don’t know if she should be allowed. I don’t know if she shouldn’t be allowed.
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My position is that, if there is not a good reason to forbid it, to allow it.
Not a bad position. I tend to agree. I think you let them participate until it becomes an issue.
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Hotdog
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Protecting women isnt a good reason? Why fight for women's rights at all if you are just going to stop here?
Trans women are women, so protecting the rights of trans women is protecting women's rights.
I will charitably assume you meant 'Protecting cis women...'. I have yet to hear how allowing transgender women compete harms cisgender women, outside of more competition. We don't protect athletes from competition.
I will acknowledge that it may be an issue in some circumstances, but I don't think it has been so far.
Hotdog
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They are women in there minds. Their persona is female. Their Chromosomes, bone density, hormones(unless taken exogenous hormones), gentiles, etc.. is not. Is this part of the discussion that you want to ignore? Why do reject this science?
We are talking about physical activities. Why wouldnt physical characteristics matter? We do protect athletes. We do it all the time is numerous ways. To say otherwise is completely false. You made that up to support your argument. Which was silly because its easily proven false. I can name off a bunch of examples off the top of my head. Age groups, weight classes, yes gender, skill level, abled and disabled, Steroids, etc.. How do you completely gloss over those glaring facts?
The actual science is that that sex and gender are multifarious, possessing of different degrees and complexly interlocking, and there there is no scientific reason for saying a person born with male genitalia must be a man. Now, if you really want to get into the science, we can do that dance, but it doesn't support you.
When there's a height limit on NBA players, to protect the smaller players, then talk to me about how we limit physical characteristics.
We protect athletes from injury, from destitution (pensions), from the owner's power (unions), from unfair play by their opponents (referees), etc. We don't protect athletes from competition.
I wasn't aware they had steroid classes of competition.
Last I heard, fighters were allowed to move up or down in weight classes.
Let me be clear: you are arguing for a hateful position, and doing so in a loathsome fashion. Among other things, you took a person's story of pain and tried to weaponize it against others like to person. This is not mere trollery. This is despicable, you have been awful, and every time you post in this thread, you make yourself look more and more terrible.
You think that while a Transgender person feels like the gender they identify as that they are actually wrong. That they are not honestly the gender they identify as. That's giving you the benefit of the doubt. I have you on ignore and only because of OBs responses did I want to see what he was responding to. So I have hardly read anything you've written in this or any other thread. As per usual, it's trash, so I feel no need to go further. You make predictable arguments that do not challenge my current understanding of this or any other topic. I have no need to swat down your arguments because I engage in these types of discussions not to "win" but to learn and grow. I do not believe you share that goal, nor that you engage in these exchanges honestly and with honor and respect. So it may be some months before I read another one of your posts.
Until then, have a nice life, or whatever other kind of life. I don't really care.
Hotdog
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You are 100% wrong on all of this. As always. You cherry pick and avoid the facts. Then resort to insulting and accusing of bigotry. You have zero evidence of me being despicable of any kind. You think if I dont agree with you that makes me a bad person.
No the science does not support any of your arguments. You live in a fantasy world. Your arguments are right on par with religious arguments. Nothing you have to say about this topic can be proven scientifically. You would have laid the case out already if it were so. Where is it cause I dont see it? Just out this to rest already and state some scientific facts. Why drag this out?
So out of naming these things as ways athletes are protected from competition "Age groups, weight classes, yes gender, skill level, abled and disabled, Steroids, etc" you chose to base you argument around Steroids not being exactly like the other ways I listed. Thats your argument? Thats laughable that you think that is even argument. Thats the best you can do? Congrats on using the lessons you learned from Highlights magazine. Then you throw in the NBA and height. All you did with those 2 really lazy and pathetic arguments is completely avoid what I said. Because you know you are wrong. You wont address the other things because you know you can't argue against them. You know you have no valid points. Your cherry picking and avoid the the actual subject at hand is just your way of staying in fantasy land.
Whats even more hilarious is that you chose to go with Steroids as you strongest point. Yet, while completely missing that its actually the most most similar argument to transgenderism. No they dont have different steroid clasess, genius, but athletes are protected from people taking exogenous hormones and altering their hormones and body chemistry. Essentially people are forbidden from becoming more man like to avoid people getting hurt. You know, kinda like men entering contests against women.
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Hotdog
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I could give a **** less if you are ignoring me. You are like a child. Take you ball and go home baby.
Hope that hangover is kicking your *** right now.
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