2020 NBA trade deadline discussion

[Saint Cy of JFC]

as if shooting 40% from deep at college and g-league is all you need to be a shooter at NBA level?

just look it up why don't you? shooting 40% in college, 50 g-league games, how many players do you think is gonna come up? and how many of those players you think actually made it to the NBA? like 1%? you think nba scout is gonna respect that? jimmer fredette is a fricking mvp outside of the nba, and how much of those do you think show up on other team's scouting report when he played for phoenix last year?

scouts know how to scout players, then explain why players intentionally left him wide open?

it's not hard to see in those highlights that players hardly paid any respect to niang's shot. a well respected nba shooter simply would not consistently get left wide open like this.

in fact, houston intentionally rotated off him to get one extra defender to help double team donovan in last season't playoff, which was one of the many things that killed us.

and as he keep knocking down those wide open 3s, i'm sure the defense will make it harder and harder for him in the nba.(which could be a good thing for us as it opens up for the space) but you'd be so damn naive to think that nba shooting is all about knocking down those uncontested practice jumpers. all i can tell you is that despite niang's recent hot streak, he's still got some way to go as a proven shooter at nba level, and i certainly wish he get there.

I know Jimmer is on the scouting report as a shooter.

Niang is a proven shooter at all levels. It's basketball. Someone has to be left open when you defend a NBA team that has good players.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And yes, respected shooters get uncontested looks all the time.

Bojan, a guy I'm sure you wouldn't be stupid enough to argue with me about being a shooting threat, has half his three point attempts (this year) come as "wide open" attempts (more than 6 feet of space).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And half those gifs were in fast-break/semi-transition or offensive rebounds.

No one is sagging off Niang to let him shoot. They are rotating off him to stop dunks at the rim on rolls or it's the blender.

 

[jom2003]

there's a distinct difference between being set up for open looks, and being left wide open by opponents intentionally due to lack of respect.

not sure how much you've watched those garbage minutes in which niang played during his early nba career but saying niang previously wasn't regarded by other teams as a shooting threat at all was not an incorrect statement due to his lack of production/inconsistency.

but that certainly has changed due to his recent hot streak.

 

[jom2003]

And half those gifs were in fast-break/semi-transition or offensive rebounds.

No one is sagging off Niang to let him shoot. They are rotating off him to stop dunks at the rim on rolls or it's the blender.

sagging off only applies to players that had zero 3pt ability. niang of course wasn't ben simmons in terms of shooting. heck, even rubio would see a defender on him when he attempt a 3 pointer, but does that necessarily qualify him as a shooting threat?

in semi-transition/rebounding situations when defense has to collapse, players would be more willing to leave their opposing players who they'd consider less of a threat, with niang being in that category(again, that is before his recent hot streak). just how often would you see bojan, joe, or korver last season being left open like that? lot of times they'd have to make runs offball to get away from their defenders for shots, and you hardly see Niang doing that sort of work because all he gotta do is to stay at one spot and over time his defender would leave him open.

 

[jom2003]

I know Jimmer is on the scouting report as a shooter.

Niang is a proven shooter at all levels. It's basketball. Someone has to be left open when you defend a NBA team that has good players.

yeah, a shooter that nba teams barely cared about. because his 0.8 makes per game hardy makes a difference. thanks for validating my point.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

sagging off only applies to players that had zero 3pt ability. niang of course wasn't ben simmons in terms of shooting. heck, even rubio would see a defender on him when he attempt a 3 pointer, but does that necessarily qualify him as a shooting threat?

in semi-transition/rebounding situations when defense has to collapse, players would be more willing to leave their opposing players who they'd consider less of a threat, with niang being in that category(again, that is before his recent hot streak). just how often would you see bojan, joe, or korver last season being left open like that? lot of times they'd have to make runs offball to get away from their defenders for shots, and you hardly see Niang doing that sort of work because all he gotta do is to stay at one spot and over time his defender would leave him open.

Bojan is left open all the time....

 

[jom2003]

Bojan is left open all the time....

because bojan was being set up by his teammates with tons of screens, while niang was being left open as his defenders left him intentionally. did you even look at those gifs i posted? defenders barely cared to cover niang when he's about to shoot. houston even left him open all by himself in the corner so they could double team donovan. could you imagine them executing that same play with bojan being in that corner? just by that play alone, what kinda scouting profile do you think houston has on niang?

 

[jom2003]

but i think we can agree to disagree now. since it's become pretty clear that doesn't matter what niang was in the past, he's on his way to become a legit shooter in this league. if he keep this up, he might just survive and end up sticking around in this league for his shooting alone because he's a solid minus in basically all other areas of his game.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

because he's being set up by his teammates, did you even look at those gifs i posted? defenders barely cared to cover niang when he's about to shoot. houston even left him open all by himself in the corner so they could double team donovan. could you imagine them executing that same play with bojan being in that corner? just by that play alone, what kinda scouting profile do you think houston has on niang?

Like I said, half those were in transition or off rebounds.

The Houston one they had to rotate to stop the dunk and the recovering defender sells completely out to contest the shot. The other Houston clip was just James Harden being James Harden on defense. They'd do the same thing to Bojan. Maybe they wouldn't hedge on the PNR, but maybe they still would because they don't want Mitchell to turn the corner and are willing to risk it.

Cuz that's what the defenses are doing anytime they make a decision. They are rolling the dice that they dont want the star to get going and are OK with the role player, even if he's a 43% open shooter (probably higher on corners) having an open shot because they know he probably isnt in great rhythm since he only plays 10 mpg and that if he does get hot, he only plays 10 mpg anyway. It's got nothing to do with them not respecting his shot or him not being on the scouting report as a threat.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

but i think we can agree to disagree now. since it's become pretty clear that doesn't matter what niang was in the past, he's on his way to become a legit shooter in this league. if he keep this up, he might just survive and end up sticking around in this league for his shooting alone because he's a solid minus in basically all other areas of his game.

Niang was a legit shooter the moment he entered the NBA....

 

[jom2003]

Like I said, half those were in transition or off rebounds.

The Houston one they had to rotate to stop the dunk and the recovering defender sells completely out to contest the shot. The other Houston clip was just James Harden being James Harden on defense. They'd do the same thing to Bojan. Maybe they wouldn't hedge on the PNR, but maybe they still would because they don't want Mitchell to turn the corner and are willing to risk it.

my point still stand. when defense has to collapse, defenders were simply more willing to risk leaving niang open than bojan, ingles, or any other proven shooters in the nba. because he hasn't shot enough volume to earn the reputation and respect. he could be a good shooter in reality, but that's just how things go in this league. and houston's strategy worked in the end as niang shot a dismal 30%. they'd do it again if they had to.

niang's been making a name for himself as of late, but bigger challenge is ahead of him because like you said, he's definitely gonna show up on other teams scouting report now as someone they would not want to leave open.

 

[jom2003]

Niang was a legit shooter the moment he entered the NBA....

that's just nonsense. niang shot 1 for 12 to start his nba career in indiana, and that's against garbage players in garbage time with little defense being played.

and you cut the BS about not enough sample size since your whole point is based on tiny sample sizes.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Y’all are straight ****ing nuts.

 

[Miggs]

And Conley is better than all of them...

Not sure how that’s relevant.

 

[candrew]

Niang clearly has a knack for shooting the basketball that you can't teach. That's been obvious since Iowa State. They used to call them "pure shooters."

The fact that the organization stuck with him despite some shaky numbers should tell you something.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not sure how that’s relevant.

How the **** is that not relevant?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

my point still stand. when defense has to collapse, defenders were simply more willing to risk leaving niang open than bojan, ingles, or any other proven shooters in the nba. because he hasn't shot enough volume to earn the reputation and respect. he could be a good shooter in reality, but that's just how things go in this league. and houston's strategy worked in the end as niang shot a dismal 30%. they'd do it again if they had to.

niang's been making a name for himself as of late, but bigger challenge is ahead of him because like you said, he's definitely gonna show up on other teams scouting report now as someone they would not want to leave open.

The defense has to collapse on Gobert re****inggardless. I dont give a **** if that's Korver in the corner. If their D plan is to hard hedge a PNR then the guy from the corner has to help down. I guess they could help off the above the break elbow player, but they probably arent unless the guy in the corner is the elite of the elite. The recovery from helping on the roll to the above the break 3 is too great and is the difference between an open vs contested shot (huge % difference) or an open vs wide open attempt (also a huge percentage difference for most players).

Houston's gameplan was not to leave Niang open, it was to get the ball out of Mitchell's hands and make him see bodies off the picks and stop Gobert from rolling comfortably. It happened, but that was never their desired outcome (if you remember everyone on the team was ice cold, so Houston was emboldened to continue to do it). Niang only played 40 actual minutes of non-garbage time minutes in the Houston series (the last three games) precisely because Snyder wanted more shooting on the court. AND IT WORKED! Niang was an overall +11 in those minutes and the Jazz won a game and came within 3 and 7 in the other two. But congrats you cherry picked two clips, one of Harden being lazy and the other of someone leaving a shooter to stop a dunk (THAT NEVER HAPPENS!).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

that's just nonsense. niang shot 1 for 12 to start his nba career in indiana, and that's against garbage players in garbage time with little defense being played.

and you cut the BS about not enough sample size since your whole point is based on tiny sample sizes.

How the **** is 4 seasons of college and 50 games in the G-League comparable to twelve ****ing shots where the guy is coming in for sporadic garbage time minutes?

 

[NAOS]

I wish dum2003 were a legitimate troll (instead of just a regular dummy), because if so, this would be the best trolljob on Cy in a long time.