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Poll: Should the Conley Experiment End?

Should the Conley Experiment End?

  • Yes, stick him on the bench and move him in the off-season

    Votes: 30 50.8%

  • No, keep him in the starting lineup and see if he turns it around

    Votes: 8 13.6%

  • Bear with him and be hopeful that he turns it around next season

    Votes: 6 10.2%

  • Play him but actively pursue moving him behind the scene

    Votes: 15 25.4%
  • Total voters
    59
LoPo said:
The whole team is built around Rudy. When he's in, seems every set is around him screening and rolling. We even added that cheeky little dive off the elbow. Defensively, its all built to funnel to him. We added shooters (Bojan and Conley over Rubio and Favors) to give him more space.

This team is built around Rudy. And it doesn't work.

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Personel wise it's not built around him though and that's the problem. No other great defenders, but we want to be a top team built around a defensive center.
If you have the best defender in the world you can stick him on an island like we have done, or build the world's best defense around him.

The best defender we've had to go along with him in this era is Donte friggin Exum...

We've never built around him.
 
sahlensguy said:
Personel wise it's not built around him though and that's the problem. No other great defenders, but we want to be a top team built around a defensive center.
If you have the best defender in the world you can stick him on an island like we have done, or build the world's best defense around him.

The best defender we've had to go along with him in this era is Donte friggin Exum...

We've never built around him.
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I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

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Conley has looked terrible for most of the season. If he and Mudiay, our third stringer, had played without names on their jerseys, would anyone be advocating for Conley? Seems like loyalty to Conley is based on what he did on Memphis rather than anything he’s done here.
 
LoPo said:
I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

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We didn't build around Rudy's strength, like at all. Funnelling the D inl
LoPo said:
I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

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When you have a guy who is the best in the world at something that the club feels they can build a contender around, then build around him. What Lindsey/Snyder has done is try to build Rudy around them.

Exum was the best on ball defender that was paired with Rudy. Almost everyone else just funnelled the ball inside. Exum stopped the ball at the point of attack (early years).

After that Rudy wasn't supported. Rather they all leaned on him.

I'm not sure if a world class D is enough to contend, but we're a small market team who needs to think about maxing our unique style to the fullest. We're not LA.
 
Make the following trade:

Knicks get Conley and future Charlotte picks
Hornets get Randle
Jazz get Ntilikina and 2nds from Charlotte

Knicks get picks and somebody to maybe clean the culture.

Hornets get a guy they wanted at the deadline.

We clear tons of cap space and get a perimeter defender.

Pull the Conley bandaid.

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LoPo said:
Make the following trade:

Knicks get Conley and future Charlotte picks
Hornets get Randle
Jazz get Ntilikina and 2nds from Charlotte

Knicks get picks and somebody to maybe clean the culture.

Hornets get a guy they wanted at the deadline.

We clear tons of cap space and get a perimeter defender.

Pull the Conley bandaid.

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I’m fine with cap clearing moves but unless we move Ed or Tony as well this move leaves us about 15Mish in space... assuming we lock JC in at around 10M. He has a 20M caphold and we likely get our first this year. I’d say in any cap clearing deal the Davis goes as part of the deal to really give us something to work with. 15M isn’t too much different than the MLE but does get you in the conversation with guys you might not be otherwise.
 
LoPo said:
I have a feeling Donovan and Rudy both want to be the alpha and neither one relents (although Donovan seems to take a back seat a lot more than Rudy). Rudy knows the team is better in the regular season long haul because of him. Donovan knows Rudy won't be as successful and he has to be the alpha for postseason success.

In many ways, this team reminds me of the Iverson 76ers. That team was elite for one year making it to the finals. That year, Iverson got red hot in the playoffs and Mutombo didn't demand the ball. He just stayed in his lane. Would Rudy do that if Mitchell hit another level? I have my doubts.

Donovan is a 10 year player. Rudy is maybe a 5 year. If they don't work, your solution is simple.

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They do work when you put good pieces around them. The pieces aren't great and they are dogging it right now. I do think there is some tension there... not a lot, but something that could build.

The issue is if you trade Rudy you are now down to one all star level player and unless that trade brings another all star level player back it will be hard to match DM up with someone that can get you more than a first round exit. And the cycle will continue.

I think the supermax for Rudy is a bad idea with what is happening to the center position. We can negotiate a regular max with him this offseason or just an extension... doesn't have to be any of the max type options... if he is unreasonable or shows some unwillingness to sign that is when you consider moving him. I just worry the trade market will be tepid... Andre just got salary dumped and Capela landed a first in a ****** draft. Honestly if you aren't getting an all star type talent in return for him then you may as well extend DM (for a mega haul) but look to move him in a year because you are locking in mediocrity. I just don't think we are anywhere near that point. Rudy and DM are great compliments to each other. DM is a combo guard that doesn't need a true pg next to him... he needs to be the smallest guy on the court to help the defense work.

It's also weird that Rudy goes through stretches were he can't be stopped and then the Rockets tiny guys are able to keep him really quiet all night. He is capable of punishing those teams and at times has been completely dominant. Kinda like he's saying he **** you guys if you aren't going to throw me the ball or try a little on defense I ain't killing myself tonight.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I’m fine with cap clearing moves but unless we move Ed or Tony as well this move leaves us about 15Mish in space... assuming we lock JC in at around 10M. He has a 20M caphold and we likely get our first this year. I’d say in any cap clearing deal the Davis goes as part of the deal to really give us something to work with. 15M isn’t too much different than the MLE but does get you in the conversation with guys you might not be otherwise.
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We could easily add Davis to Charlotte. They have a ton of cap space, the need for post depth, and they aren't a destination for an average free agent class.

So...

Knicks get Conley and draft stuff from Cha
Cha get Randle and Davis
Jazz get Ntilikina and a 2nd from Cha

We clear cap, admit our Conley mistake, and get a perimeter defender we hope restarts his career by playing with buddies Rudy and Donovan.

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J-mac23 said:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but I think this is a good time to remind people of this:

https://www.deseret.com/platform/am...edly-does-not-want-to-get-traded-to-utah-jazz

I don't think Conley ever wanted to be on the team, and it shows. But the front office wanted to get him at all costs anyway.
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I think the report was true, but I think he wants to be here... it just doesn't seem like a natural fit. Like how Ricky and that team came together it was a different vibe. I'm not sure he's bought in.

It's kinda like having you old friends from high school and then an outsider comes in... like you are cool with the guy, but he's not one of the original homies and will never be as good a fit in the group.

Will be interesting when our front office sticks their head in the sand and says it will work rather than admitting defeat and making a change. I should write their end of year press conference before it happens because it will be predictable AF.
 
Conley is not the problem, jus a part of it. After watching the game last night its pretty clear everyone is being lazy. That isn't on Conley. That's on the coaches.
 
LoPo said:
We could easily add Davis to Charlotte. They have a ton of cap space, the need for post depth, and they aren't a destination for an average free agent class.

So...

Knicks get Conley and draft stuff from Cha
Cha get Randle and Davis
Jazz get Ntilikina and a 2nd from Cha

We clear cap, admit our Conley mistake, and get a perimeter defender we hope restarts his career by playing with buddies Rudy and Donovan.

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My bigger worry is that DL gets Exum flashbacks with Frank and pays him 200%-300% of his real value on an extension.

I'm not a big Frank believer, but every player in NY is at least 20% better than they have showed... and if you look at him as just a defender who brings the ball up the floor I think he could be solid. If he gives you more than that call it a bonus.
 
Beer said:
Conley is not the problem, jus a part of it. After watching the game last night its pretty clear everyone is being lazy. That isn't on Conley. That's on the coaches.
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Last night everyone fully participated in the **** show... Conley has been a big picture problem... but to get back to your point part of it is coaching. If everyone is unmotivated or unfocused that is at least partly on the coach.

The idea that we had to force Mike into the starting lineup... because that's what we have to do... when the team was rolling was dumb. Just keep him coming off the bench. Limit his minutes. It's a common thing for older players to do... it gets us to our best lineups.

Mike with Joe in the starting lineup makes us much smaller and less athletic... would be fine if it opened up stuff for Rudy and if Mike and Joe had some chemistry going... but they do not... its quite the opposite.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
My bigger worry is that DL gets Exum flashbacks with Frank and pays him 200%-300% of his real value on an extension.

I'm not a big Frank believer, but every player in NY is at least 20% better than they have showed... and if you look at him as just a defender who brings the ball up the floor I think he could be solid. If he gives you more than that call it a bonus.
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The kid is still just 20 or 21 with loads of potential. NY is such a dumpster fire it's hard to know how good he could be. Crazy thing is that 4 years of an Exum extension is Conley's contract amount. For just next year....

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LoPo said:
The kid is still just 20 or 21 with loads of potential. NY is such a dumpster fire it's hard to know how good he could be. Crazy thing is that 4 years of an Exum extension is Conley's contract amount. For just next year....

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I agree... NY is terrible... they have given their prospects no real plan and zero space on the floor to execute it. A lot of selfish play on offense.

I just don't think he's a high potential guy... I think he could be a really good glue guy... maybe even elite if he develops and stays healthy. I'm thinking like a Pat Bev type... I don't see him as some untapped playmaker. I think he would theoretically be a good fit alongside DM and JC though... so there is that.
 
LoPo said:
The kid is still just 20 or 21 with loads of potential. NY is such a dumpster fire it's hard to know how good he could be. Crazy thing is that 4 years of an Exum extension is Conley's contract amount. For just next year....

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Frank could be the glue that keeps Rudy and DM together too... French kid, but him and DM are close... could be really helpful there.
 
sahlensguy said:
Personel wise it's not built around him though and that's the problem. No other great defenders, but we want to be a top team built around a defensive center.
If you have the best defender in the world you can stick him on an island like we have done, or build the world's best defense around him.

The best defender we've had to go along with him in this era is Donte friggin Exum...

We've never built around him.
Click to expand...

Maybe G Hill is actually to blame... He was a great piece that the Jazz were smart to get and he fit the versatile and defensive minded player mold. He could have been a great building block that could compliment a defensive team build and he ran away as fast as he could. Its all George Hills fault we are stuck with Conley's worthless ***.
 
Ready... Everyone keeps screaming Mike isn't the problem... well he's part of it.

Our record with Mike in the lineup 19-15... with him in the starting lineup 15-13... compare that with 17-6 without him and 21-8 without him in the starting lineup.

The schedule was softer in the non-Conley sample, but look the guy is shooting 39.4% from the field and 35.2% from 3 and he is not a good defender at this point in his career. His 3P shot was off when he came off the bench but his overall percentage was 45%... we were 4-2 in that span... just do it. Let's put the ball in his hand on the second unit and let him go to work. Even if it doesn't work it will limit his minutes which is a good thing for everyone imo.
 
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