2020 Presidential election

[fishonjazz]

I've read scores of political posts from you. Every single one has fallen on the same side of the political spectrum. You are partisan. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. I am partisan too. The only difference is that I'm on the right side of the divide.

I guess it depends on your definition of partisan.
I define it by following the principles, ideals, convictions, and belonging to, a political party.
I'm pro gun, anti immigration, anti abortion and pro choice.

Where do those stances on those issues put me in regards to partisanship?

So you are wrong but I understand why you think that. My hate of trump has biased any post of mine that you see into thinking it's a pro Democrat anti republican post.

One day there will be other republican candidates and presidents and you will start to notice that I'm not against the Republican party or for the Democratic party.

I think the two party system sucks and don't like either party. That's one reason I'm drawn to Bernie. He doesn't like the Democratic party but knows he has to be in it to have a chance at being president.

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[fishonjazz]

Socialism is a system where the means of production are socially owned, usually by the state.

It's not simply "things governments do." Of course the word has been used in American politics for the last couple decades at least by the right wing to mean "things the government does that I disagree with" so I understand the confusion.

Would you say that different countries have different forms of socialism or different degrees of how they use it and phrase it or are they all the exact same?

Is the military owned by the state or is it privately owned?

How about UDOT? public school? Etc etc

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[idestroyedthetoilet]

Nber.org/papers/w19844.pdf

This is quite a refreshing read that shows intergenerational mobility in the United States is virtually unchanged from 1970, and also has some discussion of the increasing income inequality.

 

[Gameface]

I was going to say this before the recent stock market plunge, so we'll see if the economy tanks now or holds on...

Regardless of who the President is in 2021 there is going to be a market downturn during that Presidential term. If a Democrat wins then it will almost guarantee they are a one term President. If that happens and then the recovery happens during the next term with a Republican in the White House that will set the narrative for at least a generation that Democrats are bad for the Economy and Republicans are good.

Now if the recession hits now then game on. But if it holds on until the next term and a Democrat wins, double that if it's a Democratic Socialist, this will look bad for Democrats for a long long time.

I want to be extra clear. The economy is going to dive, not because of coronavirus, even if that jump starts the downturn, but because recessions happen and we're overdue. So even if Trump wins, we're going to have a recession sometime in the next few years.

 

[silesian]

Yeah, you're right. Trump hasn't done a single thing that conservative's are in favor of..

Stop lying about what I said. People can read and check your “facts”.

 

[silesian]

I've read scores of political posts from you. Every single one has fallen on the same side of the political spectrum. You are partisan. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. I am partisan too. The only difference is that I'm on the right side of the divide.

Fish is not clearly not partisan. His views just happen to line up more with Dems

 

[One Brow]

Ok... But why a drug? Why weed?

1) It's a brand new market sector, so the ventures are more likely to be successful.
2) The War on Drugs targeted minorities, so this is a form of economic justice?

From the age of being able to understand basic things I've been taught drugs were bad.

Yet you sell them.

Now is weed the worst drug ever? No, but I see nothing good about peddling marijuana use or alcohol use. It's a terrible think to push on minorities.

It's not being pushed on anyone. People will line up for the opportunities.

 

[One Brow]

You've cited Denmark and have said things that lead me to believe you are deriving these claims from the World Economic Forum' Global Social Mobility Index.

There are also direct measurements of economic mobility.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

There are also direct measurements of economic mobility.

Denmark's mobility is largely due to welfare state and compressed income inequality. It's much easier to climb or fall down the ladder when the rungs are close together. However, when it comes to meritocracy, Denmark and USA are virtually identical. Children of well off and poor show similar education attainment.

If income equality is the desired outcome then look to Denmark. If opportunity is the desired goal then no need.

 

[silesian]

Socialism is a system where the means of production are socially owned, usually by the state.

Production of goods and provision of services. Socialized medicine is Govt provides medical services. Socialized Public transportation. Etc etc.

it is not black and white.

 

[One Brow]

Why are people even interacting with Jazzy? What do you think you're gaining from it? I hope you don't think he's gaining from it, or that the community is learning anything from these exchanges. Because none of that is happening. Jazzy is a complete waste of time in every last meaning of that phrase.

I don't gain much from it, nor does JazzyFresh. Perhaps 99.9% of the onlookers don't read the replies to him or don't get anything. I'm OK with all that. I'm down for that 0.1% that someone will see JazzyFresh say something they've heard many times before, but this time see a flat out declaration that it's wrong, with a reason behind it, and will give it a moment's thought.

I don't expect anyone else to have the patience (or perhaps neurosis) to come back over and over again. I've been blessed with being almost indefatigueable in these conversations, so it doesn't irritate me.

 

[One Brow]

Denmark's mobility is largely due to welfare state and compressed income inequality. It's much easier to climb or fall down the ladder when the rungs are close together. However, when it comes to meritocracy, Denmark and USA are virtually identical. Children of well off and poor show similar education attainment.

If income equality is the desired outcome then look to Denmark. If opportunity is the desired goal then no need.

I appreciate the perspective. Thank you.

 

[Zombie]

Production of goods and provision of services. Socialized medicine is Govt provides medical services. Socialized Public transportation. Etc etc.

it is not black and white.

Sure. It's worth noting that under this definition M4A is not socialized medicine, it's a social insurance program. The hospitals, pharmaceutical company's etc are still privately owned and operated.

My larger point was that governments providing public services is not necessarily "socialism." That would be diluting the definition into meaninglessness.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I guess it depends on your definition of partisan.
I define it by following the principles, ideals, convictions, and belonging to, a political party.
I'm pro gun, anti immigration, anti abortion and pro choice.

Where do those stances on those issues put me in regards to partisanship?

So you are wrong but I understand why you think that. My hate of trump has biased any post of mine that you see into thinking it's a pro Democrat anti republican post.

One day there will be other republican candidates and presidents and you will start to notice that I'm not against the Republican party or for the Democratic party.

I think the two party system sucks and don't like either party. That's one reason I'm drawn to Bernie. He doesn't like the Democratic party but knows he has to be in it to have a chance at being president.

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The political positions you claim to have don't even make any sense. Anti-abortion and pro choice are opposites, yet you hold both positions. Neither party is anti immigration, though I suppose there are fringe elements that feel that way. I could swear that I have read posts by you calling for stricter gun controls.

I do not belong to a political party. I did not vote for Trump. I voted for Obama in '08. Yet I know I am a partisan because the Republican party is far more in alignment with my goals and beliefs than the Democratic party. This is especially true now that Bernie and AOC are grabbing control. I never would have dreamed the Dems would have gone so far left (or really that any sane American's would after winning the Cold War.)

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Stop lying about what I said. People can read and check your “facts”.

Give me a break. I said that conservatives were happy with Trump's policies and you went on a rant saying the only reason that's true is that they are brainwashed idiots.

 

[fishonjazz]

The political positions you claim to have don't even make any sense. Anti-abortion and pro choice are opposites, yet you hold both positions.

That's what you have been brainwashed to believe. It has to be one or the other. That is the sheep in you following the flock.

I'm about to blow your mind.

I'm anti abortion. I would never want a child of mine aborted under any circumstance. But....

I also don't believe that the way I feel should be the way everyone else has to feel. I understand that other people have different backgrounds than me, different perspectives than me, different circumstances from me, and I feel like others should be able to look at all those things and make their own decisions in their lives.


You can apply this type of thinking to many many scenarios. I'm against lots of things that I think are ok for others to decide for themselves about.



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[gandalfe]

Anti-abortion and pro choice are opposites, yet you hold both positions.

They are often portrayed as opposites, but, in fact, not all pro-choice people are pro-abortion. We're pro-LEGALIZED-abortion. Whether you like abortion or not isn't the question, and, frankly, I can't really imagine anyone liking pretty much any medical procedure. Unless you consider tattooing to be a medical procedure, which it kind of is.

Similarly, I am pro-legalized-marijuana, but I don't like it myself.

 

[silesian]

Give me a break. I said that conservatives were happy with Trump's policies and you went on a rant saying the only reason that's true is that they are brainwashed idiots.

I pointed out that many of trumps policies are not conservative, and instead of discussing the validity of any of my claims you totally misrepresent what I’ve said by saying that I said trump “ hasn't done a single thing that conservative's are in favor of.”

Don’t follow trump into the wonderful world of lies. Go to the light.

 

[Jazzta]

I was going to say this before the recent stock market plunge, so we'll see if the economy tanks now or holds on...

Regardless of who the President is in 2021 there is going to be a market downturn during that Presidential term. If a Democrat wins then it will almost guarantee they are a one term President. If that happens and then the recovery happens during the next term with a Republican in the White House that will set the narrative for at least a generation that Democrats are bad for the Economy and Republicans are good.

Now if the recession hits now then game on. But if it holds on until the next term and a Democrat wins, double that if it's a Democratic Socialist, this will look bad for Democrats for a long long time.

I want to be extra clear. The economy is going to dive, not because of coronavirus, even if that jump starts the downturn, but because recessions happen and we're overdue. So even if Trump wins, we're going to have a recession sometime in the next few years.

That’s why Trump’s administration is going to do whatever it takes to delay the recession until after the elections. With the coronavirus knocking on our door I’m nervous about how they handle the situation.

 

[PJF]