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Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement

One Brow said:
Well, since the contradiction to "some" would be none, sure. Will that number exceed single digits? I doubt it.
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Yes, I contradicted myself. Or maybe I simply revised my statement.

So far as your belief on the matter, we’ll agree to disagree. People’s beliefs are fluid. That’s undeniable.
 
So what's happening now is we are going to get a deluge of videos of cops restraining people. What people do not understand is that it isn't the restraint itself that's bad, it was the placement directly on his neck and the ****ing 10 minute unnecessary duration. But sometimes sitting, or kneeling, on someone is the most effective way to restrain them.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Not your job dude. What you’re doing, unintentionally I know, is delegitimization those that stand against what our gov is doing to black people and those supporting them right now. Not the most virtuous fight my man. Maybe focus on listening and doing real research, not just posting videos without researching context, source, and audience. You’ve been burned a few times already.


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That was actually a quote from a black member of BLM who protested in SLC and the local paper quoted.
I'm confused.

So, basically, I did what you suggested in your post and yet I'm burned. Mmmkay.
 
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Wes Mantooth said:
Our prejudices are developed through how we’re raised no doubt but also through our life experiences. Some cops will forget the 5,000 peaceful protestors and refer to the 10 who were looting as a definition of the race.
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I think people have some prejudices due to fear. It's natural for people to fear the unknown. So even if someone is brought up and taught not to be racist they may subconsciously make decisions based on what they know or are comfortable with.

Not sure if that makes sense.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
I would encourage those conversing today to talk about the issue of systemic racism, a corrupt criminal justice system, and what you have learned from people of color over the last few days.
TBH, I don’t really care what any of the white people here think about the riots, protests, or race. Honestly, your opinions don’t matter right now. Whatever minutia you’re trying to argue is taking away from the voices of black and brown people.
What have your black and brown friends and family been telling you? Have you asked?
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Totally agree that white people should be looking to have conversations with black friends, family, and neighbors. I respectfully disagree that anyone's opinion doesn't matter. Respectful conversation and honesty about the problems in our society are always a good thing. A one sided conversation is unlikely to bring about any real change. Black and Brown voices should be amplified to ensure their voices are heard and everyone should be listening. Plenty of white public figures have been criticized recently for NOT publicly declaring their support, commentary, or condolences for George Floyd (James Dolan is one that I read about today). Can't have it both ways. Either white people can or can't express their opinion. Plus, this is Jazzfanz. How long would this thread actually be if white people shouldn't express their thoughts?

I had a great conversation with a black friend that lives in my neighborhood (we also attend church together). I was lucky to run into him in our neighborhood park, as we haven't seen each other in months. We live in Phoenix and there have been some significant riots occurring. He expressed his anger at the riots and looting occurring at the Scottsdale mall (reportedly over a million dollars in damages). He also had to talk to his sons (3) about the death of George Floyd, and the inherent racism in our policing and justice system. He's both former military and law enforcement, so I think he has a unique perspective. The conversation was great, and we have grown closer as friends from it. It also prompted me to have a talk with my young kids about racism in America.

I do personally wish more of the conversation centered around actual solutions. How do we minimize, to the extent possible, unnecessary deaths at the hands of law enforcement? How do we make sure police officers are not racist? Is that even possible? I've previously recommended mandatory body cameras at all times. Video records should be made publicly available whenever a significant event occurs (death, injury, firearm discharge). In fact, I think video should be made available to anyone who requests it that has had an interaction with law enforcement. How do we minimize the number of people incarcerated in this country, specifically black Americans?

I also wish there was more quality conversation on how to help bring more black people out of poverty. Conversations driven by reason, and not emotion. Despite an astounding number of attempts by the government, not much has changed in this regard in the last 60 years. How can we create a future with more black business owners, lawyers, engineers, doctors, etc?

My fear is that this conversation will slowly fade away, and people will go back to their normal lives and not change anything. Let's hope some actual change comes from this, and that it leads us to a better place.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Totally agree that white people should be looking to have conversations with black friends, family, and neighbors. I respectfully disagree that anyone's opinion doesn't matter. Respectful conversation and honesty about the problems in our society are always a good thing. A one sided conversation is unlikely to bring about any real change. Black and Brown voices should be amplified to ensure their voices are heard and everyone should be listening. Plenty of white public figures have been criticized recently for NOT publicly declaring their support, commentary, or condolences for George Floyd (James Dolan is one that I read about today). Can't have it both ways. Either white people can or can't express their opinion. Plus, this is Jazzfanz. How long would this thread actually be if white people shouldn't express their thoughts?

I had a great conversation with a black friend that lives in my neighborhood (we also attend church together). I was lucky to run into him in our neighborhood park, as we haven't seen each other in months. We live in Phoenix and there have been some significant riots occurring. He expressed his anger at the riots and looting occurring at the Scottsdale mall (reportedly over a million dollars in damages). He also had to talk to his sons (3) about the death of George Floyd, and the inherent racism in our policing and justice system. He's both former military and law enforcement, so I think he has a unique perspective. The conversation was great, and we have grown closer as friends from it. It also prompted me to have a talk with my young kids about racism in America.

I do personally wish more of the conversation centered around actual solutions. How do we minimize, to the extent possible, unnecessary deaths at the hands of law enforcement? How do we make sure police officers are not racist? Is that even possible? I've previously recommended mandatory body cameras at all times. Video records should be made publicly available whenever a significant event occurs (death, injury, firearm discharge). In fact, I think video should be made available to anyone who requests it that has had an interaction with law enforcement. How do we minimize the number of people incarcerated in this country, specifically black Americans?

I also wish there was more quality conversation on how to help bring more black people out of poverty. Conversations driven by reason, and not emotion. Despite an astounding number of attempts by the government, not much has changed in this regard in the last 60 years. How can we create a future with more black business owners, lawyers, engineers, doctors, etc?

My fear is that this conversation will slowly fade away, and people will go back to their normal lives and not change anything. Let's hope some actual change comes from this, and that it leads us to a better place.
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Which church in Phoenix do you go to? I literally just did the sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist last Sunday.

And let's get real - no one cares what happens to the people in Scottsdale. :p
 
I find it interesting that the white dudes in this thread have such strong opinions on who gets to have opinions and what they have to be about in order for it to be meaningful, virtuous, or relevant.

I'm just as sickened and outraged has anyone else who has a heart and wants the world to be a better place. I support BLM and there needs to be a change in law enforcement and in society. There needs to be more accountability, more training, better police officers.

I support protestors. While I don't support destroying cop cars, burning police and city buildings down, I understand that is sending a very serious and real response that enough is enough and it's sending it to the right people.

I don't understand the rioting, the violence, burning down innocent people's businesses or destroying their cars. I don't understand tagging everything in site and looting - don't care whether it's a local or national business. I think that is wrong plain and simple. I've never seen anything like it and to have white dudes continually say you can't talk about that or it takes away from the message is insane to me.

@BabyPeterzz you say listen, and you know what? The black people I know either as friends, neighbors or coworkers all say pretty much the same thing about rioting and looting and it's not the same narrative people in here might think they know.

Talking about the riots, looting, what I had for dinner last night, about my dogs or whatever does not take away from the message that racism is wrong and there needs to be a change.
 
sirkickyass said:
Which church in Phoenix do you go to? I literally just did the sermon at Valley Unitarian Universalist last Sunday.
And let's get real - no one cares what happens to the people in Scottsdale. :p
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Haha. The one time I walked through Scottsdale Fashion Center made me feel like I was from a 3rd world country.

I'm LDS, but I'm familiar with Valley Unitarian Universalist. I used to live in Chandler not far from there. Do you live in the Valley? For some reason I was under the impression that you lived in California (possibly from some very old posts).
 
Archie Moses said:
That was actually a quote from a black member of BLM who protested in SLC and the local paper quoted.
I'm confused.

So, basically, I did what you suggested in your post and yet I'm burned. Mmmkay.
Click to expand...

My bad. I didn’t see the quotes. Sorry bud.


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AlaskanAssassin said:
Totally agree that white people should be looking to have conversations with black friends, family, and neighbors. I respectfully disagree that anyone's opinion doesn't matter. Respectful conversation and honesty about the problems in our society are always a good thing. A one sided conversation is unlikely to bring about any real change. Black and Brown voices should be amplified to ensure their voices are heard and everyone should be listening. Plenty of white public figures have been criticized recently for NOT publicly declaring their support, commentary, or condolences for George Floyd (James Dolan is one that I read about today). Can't have it both ways. Either white people can or can't express their opinion. Plus, this is Jazzfanz. How long would this thread actually be if white people shouldn't express their thoughts?

I had a great conversation with a black friend that lives in my neighborhood (we also attend church together). I was lucky to run into him in our neighborhood park, as we haven't seen each other in months. We live in Phoenix and there have been some significant riots occurring. He expressed his anger at the riots and looting occurring at the Scottsdale mall (reportedly over a million dollars in damages). He also had to talk to his sons (3) about the death of George Floyd, and the inherent racism in our policing and justice system. He's both former military and law enforcement, so I think he has a unique perspective. The conversation was great, and we have grown closer as friends from it. It also prompted me to have a talk with my young kids about racism in America.

I do personally wish more of the conversation centered around actual solutions. How do we minimize, to the extent possible, unnecessary deaths at the hands of law enforcement? How do we make sure police officers are not racist? Is that even possible? I've previously recommended mandatory body cameras at all times. Video records should be made publicly available whenever a significant event occurs (death, injury, firearm discharge). In fact, I think video should be made available to anyone who requests it that has had an interaction with law enforcement. How do we minimize the number of people incarcerated in this country, specifically black Americans?

I also wish there was more quality conversation on how to help bring more black people out of poverty. Conversations driven by reason, and not emotion. Despite an astounding number of attempts by the government, not much has changed in this regard in the last 60 years. How can we create a future with more black business owners, lawyers, engineers, doctors, etc?

My fear is that this conversation will slowly fade away, and people will go back to their normal lives and not change anything. Let's hope some actual change comes from this, and that it leads us to a better place.
Click to expand...

I know it’s hard for white people to grasp right now, but our opinion on the protests, looters, and race do not matter right now. They usually always do, in our mind. But not now. Express away if you want, flex that privilege as we normally do not thinking of those we hurt with our words.

The discussion will take place, but we have to listen and be patient right now. We are not in control.


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AlaskanAssassin said:
Haha. The one time I walked through Scottsdale Fashion Center made me feel like I was from a 3rd world country.

I'm LDS, but I'm familiar with Valley Unitarian Universalist. I used to live in Chandler not far from there. Do you live in the Valley? For some reason I was under the impression that you lived in California (possibly from some very old posts).
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I used to live in the Bay Area, but I'm native to Arizona and have been in Chandler for the last five years. The VUU people keep putting me in charge of things because I'm 30 years younger than the average member and I make them feel younger.

Scottsdale Fashion Square has a good art-house movie theater but is otherwise definitely a bourgeoisie trash pile. If we were gonna roll up the guillotines to any place in town in the first stages of the class conflict that would probably be #1 on the list.
 
Unfortunately, until a majority of white people acknowledge racism, better understand its cost to society, and want it to end, it will likely not end. I wish that wasn't the way it is going to have to happen, but it is. It is tough to find the line between being an ally and being in the way, but I hope we all try to find that balance.

I still do not understand how after millenia of existence, human beings are still collectively awful and cannot figure out how to function as a society of equals.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
I know it’s hard for white people to grasp right now, but our opinion on the protests, looters, and race do not matter right now. They usually always do, in our mind. But not now. Express away if you want, flex that privilege as we normally do not thinking of those we hurt with our words.
The discussion will take place, but we have to listen and be patient right now. We are not in control.
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So you are a white person, giving an opinion, on why a white person's opinion is invalid or shouldn't be shared in the current climate? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I think I'd rather listen to my black friends and loved-ones, all of whom 100% support open dialogue based on mutual respect and a goal of improving the world we live in.
 
Zombie said:


Imagine that.
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What? But I’ve been told by posters and even trump that ANTIFA is a terrorist organization and one of the main instigators of these riots.

So because the FBI didn’t give me the answer that supported my political beliefs, I declare the FBI to be deep state and full of fake news.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
So you are a white person, giving an opinion, on why a white person's opinion is invalid or shouldn't be shared in the current climate? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I think I'd rather listen to my black friends and loved-ones, all of whom 100% support open dialogue based on mutual respect and a goal of improving the world we live in.
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Good call. I’ll bet it feels crazy to be told your opinion doesn’t matter. Kinda how those in the streets have felt for generations. I’m simply giving advice to other white people. But don’t listen to me, listen to those black friends and loved ones.



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