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Nate505 said:
Sounds like a great justification to shut down thoughts you don't like.

If you feel like something is "post-truth" by all means call them out on it. Eventually when it is called out enough that person isn't taken seriously. Like this one poster from the Netherlands.
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Silence is compliance becomes more meaningful by day.

I will re-read the thread when I find the time and report anything that is wrong statistically or factually but I would have expected JFC mods to be more in unison against racism when Utah Jazz made the step to bring it into the spotlight.
 
Yup all this has done is get us divided and fighting more...

As I've asked, how about a message of unity instead of me vs you?
 
Gameface said:
I'm going to read your full response in a second. Let me start by telling you that I never attacked you or questioned your character and I never called you a racist. Edit: eh, well I sort of did when I specifically said that based on your statement "you think" there's a difference between black people and white people. I don't really know what you think and that was a sloppy way for me to express my impression of your post.

By simply saying "hey guys, look at these stats that show black people commit a hugely disproportionate number of murders and violent crimes. Humm. How about that?" You are putting forth an argument that is based on racial differences. You are presenting facts that cannot be taken to mean anything other than black people commit more crimes essentially because they are black, unless you also add some context to the information you're presenting, which you didn't really do. What you did do is cap off your "black people are more criminal than others" stats with an odd "white men kill themselves way more often than other people."

So I'll read your full reply now, but you might want to actually read what I responded to you with minus the triggered defensive emotions.

If your response above is going to essentially amount to "I have black friends" then I'll want a refund on my time.
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My point is that police officers assigned to these h
Gameface said:
So let me give you the opportunity to explain what significance your stats have? What do they teach us in the context of this discussion?

For instance, I'd like to see stats for the crime rate amongst impoverished inner city white people vs the average white population. Do you think you might find some of the same exact skewed numbers that indicate that there's something different about "poor white trash" that live in poor urban areas?

I mean you're the one that wanted to make sure this post wasn't ignored by quoting it and challenging us to respond to it. I told you exactly what I made of it and you want on a multi-paragraph rant about "I'm nice to black people, I have black friends I've gone to black people parties as the only non-black person." **** man, that was you're response?
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Can you not simply understand that in the wake of atrocities committed in the line of duty against perps that are combative and resisting arrest that maybe just possibly that by providing data I am providing relevant context. Just like certain atrocities committed in war there is a very real self preservation aspect and stress level that has to be considered before making an informed judgement.
 
Hekate said:
Silence is compliance becomes more meaningful by day.

I will re-read the thread when I find the time and report anything that is wrong statistically or factually but I would have expected JFC mods to be more in unison against racism when Utah Jazz made the step to bring it into the spotlight.
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What exactly does "more in unison against racism" mean?

I am in unison with people being able to share their opinions and ideas, and calling them out if their opinions and ideas are awful. I am not in unison with echo chambers. It makes it harder to identify the idiots when you try to restrict their opinions.

Now obviously there is some nuance. If someone says something like "all (insert race/ethnicity/etc here) are (insert derogatory term here" that wouldn't be allowed. Attacking people is another clear cut area too. Saying the protesters are wrong may be something I disagree with, but it doesn't fall into the above two categories. That should be met with a "you're wrong and this is why" sort of response.
 
Nate505 said:
What exactly does "more in unison against racism" mean?

I am in unison with people being able to share their opinions and ideas, and calling them out if their opinions and ideas are awful. I am not in unison with echo chambers. It makes it harder to identify the idiots when you try to restrict their opinions.

Now obviously there is some nuance. If someone says something like "all (insert race/ethnicity/etc here) are (insert derogatory term here" that wouldn't be allowed. Attacking people is another clear cut area too. Saying the protesters are wrong may be something I disagree with, but it doesn't fall into the above two categories. That should be met with a "you're wrong and this is why" sort of response.
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Awful ideas are one thing and clearly wrong "ideas" which slog the discussion and prevent it from becoming a real debate is another. There have been a number of great posts in this thread with detailed information just to educate racist people that yielded nothing. When people are proven to be wrong and keep repeating the same old tired cliches, stereotypes and justifications. I would expect JFC mods to warn posters or delete posts that are cleary detrimental to discussion.

No one says derogatory racist words outside of their bubble anymore, the backlash is too strong for that. Instead, they hide behind, willingly or unwillingly, justifications as done in this thread many times. It's equally disturbing.
 
Hekate said:
Awful ideas are one thing and clearly wrong "ideas" which slog the discussion and prevent it from becoming a real debate is another. There have been a number of great posts in this thread with detailed information just to educate racist people that yielded nothing. When people are proven to be wrong and keep repeating the same old tired cliches, stereotypes and justifications. I would expect JFC mods to warn posters or delete posts that are cleary detrimental to discussion.
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I disagree strongly. If it ever comes to that here where approved ideas are the only thing allowed, I will step back from being a mod here.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
If you want equality then start by treating people equally.

If you don't want racism then start by not bringing race into the conversation. The minute you point out skin color, regardless of the color, you crossed a line.

Don't justify crossing it because of skin color or history. Just don't cross it.
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Those are incorrect statements and history does not support that.

If minorities want racism to end racism, that won't help them.

White people don't face racism in the USA. You are hurting minorites and making the problem worse by claiming that.

There is a lot more to racism then simply saying a skin color. This specific issue wasn't racism. I gave you very clear reasons why it didn't fit that by definition.

The amount of effort you are putting into crying wolf about this makes me think you are either ignorant on this issue or wanting to create an issue out of it too try and create equivalence to diminish minorities experience.
 
Respect to Jamal Murray for his emotions and comments after the game. This moment in time matters to him.

Tonight the other Jazz fans in my family started boycotting the team. They believe in "shut up and dribble." Their loss (well, maybe not this game).

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Ron Mexico said:
Those are incorrect statements and history does not support that.

If minorities want racism to end racism, that won't help them.

White people don't face racism in the USA. You are hurting minorites and making the problem worse by claiming that.

There is a lot more to racism then simply saying a skin color. This specific issue wasn't racism. I gave you very clear reasons why it didn't fit that by definition.

The amount of effort you are putting into crying wolf about this makes me think you are either ignorant on this issue or wanting to create an issue out of it too try and create equivalence to diminish minorities experience.
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Wow. Just... wow.

What part of "treat people equally" and "dont cross the line" are incorrect statements exactly?

If you dont support equality and treating people with respect then good luck with that.

Let's just agree to disagree here. Unreal.
 
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The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Wow. Just... wow.

What part of "treat people equally" and "dont cross the line" are incorrect statements exactly?

If you dont support equality and treating people with respect then good luck with that.

Let's just agree to disagree here. Unreal.
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This is the same **** people have been saying out loud for almost 100 years. Meanwhile they are NOT treating people equally.

Forgive me for not trusting in the sincerity of that notion. Especially when we are seeing specific examples of how hollow it is and getting the "just be patient, eventually we'll stop discriminating and imprisoning and killing black people, just so long as we all stop talking about racial problems using racial terms."

This needs to start by dealing with the very real racial issues that have existed here since before the Revolutionary War and have never even sort of gone away.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Nope. Just meaning people need to treat people with respect. That is the only answer I have for this mess.
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There are hard conversations, realizations and responsibility taking that needs to happen first. Can't skip steps, as they say.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Wow. Just... wow.

What part of "treat people equally" and "dont cross the line" are incorrect statements exactly?

Let's just agree to disagree here. Unreal.
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Well, you didn't just say those terms. But here we go.

Minorites can't simply fix or start to fix problems by trying to treat their oppressors equally. That does nothing to end racism. That's blaming the victim. The term cross the line is arbitrary and meaningless in this context. But, the original statement doesn't cross the line of being racism. Any time a skin color is mentioned isn't racism. I'm not actually sure you understand what racism is to be honest.

I'm sure I won't agree with your incorrect statements about this. But I'll keep responding for others who might actually be trying to learn more.

What you're trying to claim is reverse racism and that doesn't exist. It's an idea started by oppressors and is still used to keep people down. I'm hoping you're just ignorant on this.
 
JazzyFresh said:
You're the only one making excuses for violence. More black people(including innocent children)have died in the name of BLM than have been killed by police this year
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Some people would think that 1) this indicates the seriousness of racism, since people are literally dying to fight it, and 2) perhaps we should be respond to these protests with so much violence. It's like you're making excuses to be violent toward protesters.
 
One Brow said:
Some people would think that 1) this indicates the seriousness of racism, since people are literally dying to fight it, and 2) perhaps we should be respond to these protests with so much violence. It's like you're making excuses to be violent toward protesters.
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People are being murdered in cold blood dude. Who's the one making excuses? Like these people died fighting for the cause not from shooting a child in a car for her father trying to turn around. Protecting a store from looting. The 3 teens murdered at CHOP.

Senseless violence and you're the one making excuses.

I want these people still alive you're excusing it, not me.
 
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Nate505 said:
Sounds like a great justification to shut down thoughts you don't like.
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I appreciate the free exchange of ideas. I also appreciate that giving fundamentally ill-conceived ideas an equal platform to sound ideas elevates the ill-conceived and gives them an aura of respectability. These competing interests make for difficult decisions, and downplaying down the discussion as "shut down thoughts you don't like" does not reflect these difficulties.

However, any such discussion should probably be had in a different thread. This one is already convoluted.
 
One Brow said:
Some people would think that 1) this indicates the seriousness of racism, since people are literally dying to fight it, and 2) perhaps we should be respond to these protests with so much violence. It's like you're making excuses to be violent toward protesters.
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I was going to let this go but I'm absolutely disgusting by you comment. I'm repulsed.

1) this indicates the seriousness of racism, since people to fight it


Police said Turner was riding in a car with her mother and her mother’s friend when they exited the interstate at University Avenue. The driver tried to turn into the parking lot at 1238 Pryor Road when he was confronted by an “group of armed individuals” who had blocked the entrance.
“At some point, someone in that group opened fire on the vehicle, striking it multiple times and striking the child who was inside. The driver then drove to Atlanta Medical Center for help,” police said in a statement.
Police said the 911 caller told them they were heading to Atlanta Medical Center with the victim. The child died at the hospital.
On Sunday night, Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms blasted protesters who had turned violent.
“You cant blame this on a police officer. You can’t say this about criminal justice reform,” Bottoms said. “This is about some people carrying some weapons who shot up a car with an 8-year-old baby in the car for what?!?


Again I'm repulsed. Absolutely disgusted. I don't care to communicate with such gross idealism anymore. Have a nice life
 
JazzyFresh said:
People are being murdered in cold blood dude. Who's the one making excuses? Like these people died fighting for the cause not from shooting a child in a car for her father trying to turn around. Protecting a store from looting. The 3 teens murdered at CHOP.

Senseless violence and you're the one making excuses.

I want these people still alive you're excusing it, not me.
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I want those people alive, as well. I'm glad you agree with defunding the police and and de-escalating the responses to protests, as that would be the best way to preserve lives.
 
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