When will Jefferson have breakout season?

[Deleted member 848]

See now you used "good" I think if you'd used good instead of average nobody would have questioned that and I think most everybody would say good is better than average.

Exactly.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Lol. So instead of taking what I have to say in a general sense and responding normally, you're just gonna teach me how to round properly?

As a poster you have always been one of my favourites, since you tend to show no bias in your solid assessments of whatever the discussion is about. Not sure what your deal is, here. A respectable poster would have just pointed out "hey, 17.6 is .11 (lol) closer to 18 than 17, hence you must round up" and then gone on to further make whatever rebuttal they had in mind. Instead, you just sidetrack yourself and spend three posts talking about me baaarely fibbing one stat (which still serves my point regardless) and make yourself seem like an asshat in the process.

Lol, let me help.

Just to illustrate my point better:

Player 1 shoots 17.0 field goals per game, making 8.9 on average.

Player 2 shoots 17.9 field goals per game, making 8.0 on average.

By this stupid convention you've applied, both shoot 8 - 17 on average. We can just "whatever" the fact that Player 1's field goal percentage is .524 and Player 2's field goal percentage is .447. These differences are negligible, right?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Lol, let me help.

Alright wise guys;

So, by saying "17", that would make every number from 17-17.49 fall under the same criteria, correct?

8.8/17.6 = .500

8.8/17.49 = .503

Sorry, i was 3 tenths of a percent off of what would be deemed appropriately as "17". Get off my case you hacks, lol.

Hell, if you wanna include 17 flat (which most would've written as 17.0 but just for the sake of comparison)

8.8/17 = .518, 1.8 percent off at the absolute most.

The differences are insanity, right?

 

[NUMBERICA]

Or you can just use the ****ing actual number and not "whatever" your way through stuff. Or you can use conservative numbers which would prove your point better.

This is stupid.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Also, "lol" for good measure.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Or you can just use the ****ing actual number and not "whatever" your way through stuff. Or you can use conservative numbers which would prove your point better.

This is stupid.

how about you guys simply call me out for it once, then continue to argue whatever contribution you had instead of sidetracking it and using completely boneheaded examples that made me seem like I was butchering data, when really I was .3-1.8 percent off?

"This is stupid."

 

[NUMBERICA]

"This is stupid."

Yep.

 

[GVC]

Lol. So instead of taking what I have to say in a general sense and responding normally, you're just gonna teach me how to round properly?

As a poster you have always been one of my favourites, since you tend to show no bias in your solid assessments of whatever the discussion is about. Not sure what your deal is, here. A respectable poster would have just pointed out "hey, 17.6 is .11 (lol) closer to 18 than 17, hence you must round up" and then gone on to further make whatever rebuttal they had in mind. Instead, you just sidetrack yourself and spend three posts talking about me baaarely fibbing one stat (which still serves my point regardless) and make yourself seem like an asshat in the process.

You do realize my last 4 posts in this thread have been directed at Ben10, not you, right?

And no, in this case, even if Big Al had shot 17.49 times per game in the season in question, it wouldn't be appropriate to say he averaged 21+ points on 17 field goal attempts. Clearly, the statement implies that Big Al averaged 21 points or more on 17 or less field goal attempts per game. 17.49 is not equal to or less than 17. Had you accidentally rounded in such a way that didn't obviously make Big Al look better than he actually is, I almost certainly would have let your error slide. Hell, I corrected you half-jokingly, and only made repeated posts after that dude Ben 10, apparently vying for the title of most willfully ignorant half-wit on jazzfanz, decided to defend you and your obvious mistake.

I have no problem having a discussion in good faith with people, but if others are going to distort facts in a self-serving way, as you did, I'm going to point it out. Deal with it.

 

[Deleted member 848]

You do realize my last 4 posts in this thread have been directed at Ben10, not you, right?

And no, in this case, even if Big Al had shot 17.49 times per game in the season in question, it wouldn't be appropriate to say he averaged 21+ points on 17 field goal attempts. Clearly, the statement implies that Big Al averaged 21 points or more on 17 or less field goal attempts per game. 17.49 is not equal to or less than 17. Had you accidentally rounded in such a way that didn't obviously make Big Al look better than he actually is, I almost certainly would have let your error slide. Hell, I corrected you half-jokingly, and only made repeated posts after that dude Ben 10, apparently vying for the title of most willfully ignorant half-wit on jazzfanz, decided to defend you and your obvious mistake.

I have no problem having a discussion in good faith with people, but if others are going to distort facts in a self-serving way, as you did, I'm going to point it out. Deal with it.

Meh, if you say you're gonna throw me on ignore, and then call my data incorrect (even though it was 1 percent off) then obviously theres gonna be a rebuttal from my end. My problem isn't that you pointed it out, (in fact even after you pointed out my point still holds) its just that you took it a tad too seriously. Tell me once, I'm not retarded. Don't dedicate the next 5 posts about it as if you're on some "accuracy-crusade"; if you really want to hand it to Ben10 do it over PMs.
Lets just kill this off now.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

One gripe I would like to point out, simply because I can and I find this annoying....

Look. I love that the Turks have come to share in the collective good and excitment that Kanter brings to this board and the Jazz. But ****, I'm tired of listening to the obvious jabs at our existing bigs in an attempt to somehow make room for Kanter. Like we should scrap all of our bigmen and start Kanter. Please mother*******. Kanter is good, and will perhaps be really good, but the kid needs to pay his dues and prove himself. Until then, Al and Sal aren't going anywhere. And sure as **** Kanter is not taking one of their spots until he shows he can play in the NBA. I'm excited about Kanter, but this whole "Big Al sucks, make room for Kanter" bull**** has got to stop. It's stupid and annoying as ****.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

One gripe I would like to point out, simply because I can and I find this annoying....

Look. I love that the Turks have come to share in the collective good and excitment that Kanter brings to this board and the Jazz. But ****, I'm tired of listening to the obvious jabs at our existing bigs in an attempt to somehow make room for Kanter. Like we should scrap all of our bigmen and start Kanter. Please mother*******. Kanter is good, and will perhaps be really good, but the kid needs to pay his dues and prove himself. Until then, Al and Sal aren't going anywhere. And sure as **** Kanter is not taking one of their spots until he shows he can play in the NBA. I'm excited about Kanter, but this whole "Big Al sucks, make room for Kanter" bull**** has got to stop. It's stupid and annoying as ****.

This, for the most part.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Not all 20 and 10 seasons are created equal. If you get your 20 inefficiently, while playing pathetic defense and team ball, you probably aren't helping your team win.

We're supposed to be talking about Jefferson in this thread, not Boozer ;-)

 

[Deleted member 848]

One gripe I would like to point out, simply because I can and I find this annoying....

Look. I love that the Turks have come to share in the collective good and excitment that Kanter brings to this board and the Jazz. But ****, I'm tired of listening to the obvious jabs at our existing bigs in an attempt to somehow make room for Kanter. Like we should scrap all of our bigmen and start Kanter. Please mother*******. Kanter is good, and will perhaps be really good, but the kid needs to pay his dues and prove himself. Until then, Al and Sal aren't going anywhere. And sure as **** Kanter is not taking one of their spots until he shows he can play in the NBA. I'm excited about Kanter, but this whole "Big Al sucks, make room for Kanter" bull**** has got to stop. It's stupid and annoying as ****.

Great post. I don't want to clump all the turks together; some of them, like Aybars and memoismoney tend to contribute very positively. Theres definitely one that sticks out from the pack though, we all know who I'm talking about. Claims about Kanter being great defensively, and being at WORST an equitable post-force to one of the best in the league are astonishing

 

[sepanol]

And Sepanol, you saying that Kanter's post moves are close to as good as Big Als AT WORST is one of the most laughable claims I have ever read on this forum. Not gonna argue Kanter vs Al with you any longer, it is painfully evident that you will side with your fellow-countryman until the end, no matter what.

Well i supported Kanter from the day one and it is no secret, but it is not because my countryman, it is because he is a very promising player. I honestly dont see any important weaknesses on his game like Big Al has, and you should make something clear, blocking is not directly related to being a good defender. Big Al has a good blocking timing but there are many other things in defense that you have to do. He blocks shots but he doesnt really alter shots, he has no lateral quickness, he is a very bad pick and roll defender, and he doesnt use his brain in the game generally.
These are big obstacles if you wanna be an elite big man in the league. I dont say Kanter will for sure, but i think so, and i am pretty sure he will be better than Big Al overall and you dont need to be a basketball guru to make this guess

 

[sepanol]

Easy. Back to the basket scoring, man-to-man defense, help defense too (consider Boozer plays no defense), durability, attitude, ability to score against taller players, etc.

Attitude i am not sure, and we will see it more clear this year, when he will get benched in certain games. Man to man defense and help defense , i cant say he does it very well, just because Boozer sucks he may seem better.

I also think Big Al is a better player but that is not mainly because he is a very good player , it is rather because Boozer sucks, who the hell would give him a 80 million 5 year contract, we are really lucky to have KOC as our manager

 

[sepanol]

I am going to remember you saying that. Not that I don't hope that would happen cuz if it does happen, that means that Jazz hit a jackpot with that NJ pick, but to say that Kanter is going to be better than Al before he plays an NBA game against serious competition is just absurd.

I can give you that Kanter hustles on the defensive end but I didn't see his defense being superior to Al's, even considered the difference of competition they were facing. Plus, if Al has Asik behind him, he might all of a sudden become a better defender than what people think of him.

If you are talking about the eurobasket games, he didnt really had much time together with Omer Asik, he played center more than PF. And he was mostly with Oguz Savas which isnt a very good defender also.

Anyway, you may call it absurd, but thats just what i see. I dont believe one player will change all of a sudden and play completely different. I dont see Kanter failing in nba, maybe he may not end up being the star player as i expect but i am adamant on the idea that he will be a better player than Big Al overall.

 

[sepanol]

When all you did was use statistics to suggest that he wasn't average.

Sorry, but you're in the minority here. Most people have seen enough of Big Al to see what he truly is. An average big man who can score in bunches (especially against stupid super aggressive bigs who will fall for his cheap fakes), but never be depended on as an offensive player. A shotblocker who rotates slowly, isn't athletic enough to hedge, and is relatively soft. Sure, he might block a shot or two due his his height. But never a defensive stopper.

Again, he's good. Not great. Not bad. Just good.

It's not an insult. It's just reality.

You read my mind i think

 

[sepanol]

One gripe I would like to point out, simply because I can and I find this annoying....

Look. I love that the Turks have come to share in the collective good and excitment that Kanter brings to this board and the Jazz. But ****, I'm tired of listening to the obvious jabs at our existing bigs in an attempt to somehow make room for Kanter. Like we should scrap all of our bigmen and start Kanter. Please mother*******. Kanter is good, and will perhaps be really good, but the kid needs to pay his dues and prove himself. Until then, Al and Sal aren't going anywhere. And sure as **** Kanter is not taking one of their spots until he shows he can play in the NBA. I'm excited about Kanter, but this whole "Big Al sucks, make room for Kanter" bull**** has got to stop. It's stupid and annoying as ****.

I am a utah fan since Kanter was matching his big brother Memo when he was shooting 3s against Houston in 2007.(he wasnt even going to highschool then) Well it is short comparing to most of the guys here but i was a poster here long before Kanter was even mentioned in the same sentence with Utah so exclude me if you mentioned about me (Also i never rated Memo highly even though he is my countryman as well)

And i never said Big Al sucks, he is just a good player who isnt worth giving 14 million per year, do we agree here? or anyone thinks opposite of me

So i guess the point i argue with everyone is that i want him to leave right now while people wants him to stay, am i right till here?

So i wonder, while we have so much flexibility in the big man rotation, having promising players like Kanter and Favors, why do we not use him as a trade asset, or instead people want him to stay 2 more years until he proves he cant be our franchise guy and leaves without letting us gain any assets in return and signing 80 million for 5 year deal with another stupid team just like Chicago did with Boozer?

So is it the only thing we arguing about? Because i am really looking at the fact from logical and management side, (not even basketball side) or are there really people who believes Big Al is the man, he will carry us in his shoulders to the nba finals once the other players around him gets better?

 

[GVC]

We're supposed to be talking about Jefferson in this thread, not Boozer ;-)

Uh...I'm not a big Boozer fan, and I think it was the right decision to let him go, but he was both a lot more efficient scoring the basketball and a lot better at team play on the offensive side of the court with the Jazz than Big Al was last season. I was definitely talking about Jefferson.

 

[GVC]

Tell me once, I'm not retarded. Don't dedicate the next 5 posts about it as if you're on some "accuracy-crusade"; if you really want to hand it to Ben10 do it over PMs.

It was my intention to only tell you once. You and Ben10 weren't willing to leave it at that. And if someone calls me wrong, I'm not just going to let that lie and deal with it in PMs. Why should I do something you and your lackey aren't willing to do?

I just expect a little intellectual honesty is all.