McDaniels might bust. He might be Kelly Oubre. He might be 80% of Paul Geroge.
All three are possible outcomes.
All three are possible outcomes.
Following Potential 2020 draftees
- Thread starter Game6Conley
- Start date
What the Jazz really need is a big wing or forward with some size who can drive, draw two defenders, and make a play with a pass. They haven't had that since Hayward left. Maybe Brantley will be able to do that, but I don't get the sense that's he's going to be a starter for a while. This is why guys like Patrick Williams, Saddiq Bey and Aleksej Pokusevski would be really attractive to the Jazz. I don't know if McDaniels will be able to do that or not.
The Jazz need a bit more than just someone who can defend and spot up.
The Jazz need a bit more than just someone who can defend and spot up.
I agree with your general idea here. Not sure S. Bey really fits -- he'll make the right pass, sure, I don't know if he can draw additional defenders through his driving. I guess I'm more hopeful that Woodward can get to this point than you are.
One more question: any idea why Woodard was listed by Miss. State as a guard? I don't know much at all about the team, but it looks likely he started alongside two bigger players and two smaller players -- why didn't they call him a SF?
I'm not a believer in Woodard. We're talking about real ball skills here. Paul Reed would probably be better than Woodard, and he probably isn't going to cut it either.
As can't be said enough in my case, I'm claiming no particular expertise, but:
Here's where I'm at now on the 5 players we seem to be centering on.
Woodard: cleanest fit for seeing playing time next season, assuming Jazz roster doesn't change much through trade or FA (and Clarkson is retained); Jazz absolutely need the kind of athleticism he offers -- could perhaps even start, depending on how much Quin values his size, if defense is legit and offense matches or exceeds initial expectations -- lack of creation/feel on offense worries me a bit, but if he's the 5th option, I think he'll be OK -- I think I buy his shot long-term, as it looks smooth/easy (if a bit slow) -- offers the most defensive versatility
Bane: likeliest to be most ready to contribute next year -- I really like his feel/passing, am quite confident in his shot -- I worry about his athleticism, though I think he can still be a productive, winning player -- not sure I see a path for him to get minutes next year if we retain Clarkson (we have too many players who will/should be playing at 2/3)
Green: I love his defensive instincts and feet -- not at all sold that he'll offer much other than decent ball movement and the occasional flash of athleticism on the fast break offensively, but maybe he develops into something more -- like Bane, it's hard for me to see him having a path to minutes next year if Clarkson is around -- if there are long-term concerns about Donovan's defense, maybe he makes sense as someone who can fit with Donovan and take the tougher guard matchup -- hard to see (at least over the next year or two) how he gives us anything different than what Royce, and perhaps even Oni, gives us
McDaniels: I'm doubtful on him -- I can see the flashes and why the Jazz might bet on him, but I'd have to be more trusting/hopeful than optimistic about him reaching his potential -- I do like his: quickness, ability to block shots as a help defender, ability to get a shot
Tyler Bey: I wouldn't mind him, but wouldn't have great hopes either -- I'd have the most hope in his help defense and rebounding, along with the occasional athletic highlight -- I'd worry about his relative thinness for his position against certain competition, his shot, and general feel within an offense like the Jazz's
Here's where I'm at now on the 5 players we seem to be centering on.
Woodard: cleanest fit for seeing playing time next season, assuming Jazz roster doesn't change much through trade or FA (and Clarkson is retained); Jazz absolutely need the kind of athleticism he offers -- could perhaps even start, depending on how much Quin values his size, if defense is legit and offense matches or exceeds initial expectations -- lack of creation/feel on offense worries me a bit, but if he's the 5th option, I think he'll be OK -- I think I buy his shot long-term, as it looks smooth/easy (if a bit slow) -- offers the most defensive versatility
Bane: likeliest to be most ready to contribute next year -- I really like his feel/passing, am quite confident in his shot -- I worry about his athleticism, though I think he can still be a productive, winning player -- not sure I see a path for him to get minutes next year if we retain Clarkson (we have too many players who will/should be playing at 2/3)
Green: I love his defensive instincts and feet -- not at all sold that he'll offer much other than decent ball movement and the occasional flash of athleticism on the fast break offensively, but maybe he develops into something more -- like Bane, it's hard for me to see him having a path to minutes next year if Clarkson is around -- if there are long-term concerns about Donovan's defense, maybe he makes sense as someone who can fit with Donovan and take the tougher guard matchup -- hard to see (at least over the next year or two) how he gives us anything different than what Royce, and perhaps even Oni, gives us
McDaniels: I'm doubtful on him -- I can see the flashes and why the Jazz might bet on him, but I'd have to be more trusting/hopeful than optimistic about him reaching his potential -- I do like his: quickness, ability to block shots as a help defender, ability to get a shot
Tyler Bey: I wouldn't mind him, but wouldn't have great hopes either -- I'd have the most hope in his help defense and rebounding, along with the occasional athletic highlight -- I'd worry about his relative thinness for his position against certain competition, his shot, and general feel within an offense like the Jazz's
Functional comps/roles for the guys you just listed:
1) Woodard = Jamychal Green if we're lucky. That might be his ceiling. I'm not convinced he can shoot.
2) Bane = I'll go with Tony Jones' Wes Matthew's comp, though he's more a combo guard than a 2. Not sure he's really better than Jahmius Ramsey in the end.
3) Green = Donte Divincenzo, a fairly athletic 3D guard who can shoot at an avg rate and defend 2 positions.
4) McDaniels = Play him like he's Jerami Grant for a while then see if he can do more.
5) Bey = Backup defensive wing like Larry Nance Jr. Can guard 3 positions and provide energy.
1) Woodard = Jamychal Green if we're lucky. That might be his ceiling. I'm not convinced he can shoot.
2) Bane = I'll go with Tony Jones' Wes Matthew's comp, though he's more a combo guard than a 2. Not sure he's really better than Jahmius Ramsey in the end.
3) Green = Donte Divincenzo, a fairly athletic 3D guard who can shoot at an avg rate and defend 2 positions.
4) McDaniels = Play him like he's Jerami Grant for a while then see if he can do more.
5) Bey = Backup defensive wing like Larry Nance Jr. Can guard 3 positions and provide energy.
Theo Maledon could still be in play for the Jazz. He can play next to Mitchell, both on and off the ball. Maledon might be French for George Hill. The only real problem with Maledon is that his steal rate is low.
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A team with the 23rd pick in a **** draft isn't going to find what you're looking for in a wing.
Woodard is a clunky player if viewed as a wing. I see his real potential as a 4 and maybe even as a 5. Good rebounder, built like a truck, shows real ability to protect the rim (and we really could use a second-line rim protector against spread offenses, especially ones that have the athleticism to cover ground).
His off-the-bounce play is bad and his shot is slow and weird. Slotting him as a perimeter player (rather than a stretchy, switch, bouncy big) is a mistake in my mind and whether he sinks or swims in this league might be determined by how a team sees and utilizes him positionally.
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Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
When Robert Woodard played for Team USA as a youth player he was closer to 6'5" and was very much a swingman and impressed with his 3pt shooting and all around game IIRC.... He's only recently grown into the tweener forward he's pegged as in most places.
When teams were recruiting Woodard, and it was never much of a recruitment at all was a pretty poorly kept secret he was going to MSU like his father, those teams were recruting a swingman, not a forward.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
@Saint Cy of JFC or anyone else, what are your thoughts on Vernon Carey? Can he play the 4? Can he shoot threes or is he just a center in the nba?
Nice vid on Paul Reed. I'd take Reed ahead of Woodard. He's a better, more versatile defender at this stage.
Carey is a beast, but he might not be able to guard in space at all. I don't think he could play at the 4 in the modern game. His role projects as a backup 5. He can shoot a bit, but he's naturally a guy who wants to score in the paint. At best, he could be like a slightly smaller version of Demarcus Cousins, but his lack of length hurts his ability to guard the rim. So that makes him a backup, like Enes Kanter, or a better version of Caleb Swanigan. He's just an odd fit for the modern game.
If he can really turn himself into a stretch shooter, then he becomes more interesting--similar to Jontay Porter.
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
He’s intriguing, he’s got a funky looking shot but could be a shot in the are defensively for this team
I'll withhold judgment on Woodward's offensive potential as a wing, as I can't find any more Mississippi State games on youtube. But I do suspect that if the Jazz take him, it's with the idea of filling the 4-spot offensively and much of the time defensively (even if he gets labeled as a SF). I'm leery of expecting a 5 out of him, however, except in unusual circumstances. Size (including height) matters there. Might as well go with Juwan Morgan for the 4/5 role (or Achiuwa/Reed). What makes Woodward attractive to me is that he can go down to the 2 or 3 spot to guard the opponents' strong threats there if needed in specific circumstances. While I can see Achiuwa/Reed switching there usefully on occasion, I don't see them drawing key assignments there like I'm hopeful Woodward can.
To be clear, I'm not itching to cobble him as a regular 5, just situational or in a switch. I think his biggest selling point is his defensive versatility, but I think he should essentially be a 4 in the modern NBA (which is the new "swingman").
For those trying to figure out who's best or who you like out of Tyler Bey, Robert Woodard, and Paul Reed, I found these useful:
www.sports-reference.com
www.sports-reference.com
www.sports-reference.com
They create some distance between Bey and the others, IMO.
Tyler Bey College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Tyler Bey - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
Robert Woodard College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Robert Woodard - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
Paul Reed College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Paul Reed - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
They create some distance between Bey and the others, IMO.