Are the Jazz going to trade Rudy?

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ryan hasn’t given many clear signals that he likes big tax bills; so the evidence suggests the size of Rudy’s contact will have a direct influence of “team building dynamics.”

My hope is they duck the tax this year but only because there is no avoiding it next two years. But let’s be honest... they will likely find ways to get out of it in the future that will have negative basketball consequences.

 

[NAOS]

My hope is they duck the tax this year but only because there is no avoiding it next two years. But let’s be honest... they will likely find ways to get out of it in the future that will have negative basketball consequences.

Unfortunately, I can’t make myself believe anything but this.

 

[KqWIN]

It's not just Ryan Smith's money. Paying Rudy $45 million in a few years is destroying roster flexibility.

Think about it. If we pay Rudy more than others would/could give him ($35 million for example), we could still give a full MLE ($9.5ish) and still be under $45 million.

There is no fair way to explain a supermax for Rudy. We would be spending against ourselves.

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There is no more roster flexibility with Rudy on a normal max versus a supermax. We will be over the cap and tax either way. It's just more money. There's no way to spend the difference between $35M and $45M. The exceptions you get are exactly the same. It's not like you get $10M more to spend if Rudy is at $35 vs $45.

 

[LoPo]

There is no more roster flexibility with Rudy on a normal max versus a supermax. We will be over the cap and tax either way. It's just more money. There's no way to spend the difference between $35M and $45M. The exceptions you get are exactly the same. It's not like you get $10M more to spend if Rudy is at $35 vs $45.

Yeah, but when Rudy's extra $10 million brings such a luxury tax penalty that we are discouraged from using our biggest exceptions, that's a big deal.

If we are using draft picks dumping $340k, imagine how much we will sacrifice when Rudy's extra $10 million is really costing us $20 million plus not signing people.

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[oneye]

My hope is they duck the tax this year but only because there is no avoiding it next two years. But let’s be honest... they will likely find ways to get out of it in the future that will have negative basketball consequences.

They need to waive NWG and they are a few hundred thousand away from ducking it and avoiding repeater tax, which why not avoid it if you can for as long as you can? Idk how you get the little bit more trimmed to get off it, but NWG being waived almost gets you there. Is NWG worth $3 million? No. Just waive him.

 

[KqWIN]

Yeah, but when Rudy's extra $10 million brings such a luxury tax penalty that we are discouraged from using our biggest exceptions, that's a big deal.

If we are using draft picks dumping $340k, imagine how much we will sacrifice when Rudy's extra $10 million is really costing us $20 million plus not signing people.

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Once again...it’s just Ryan Smiths money. I understand that it’s not realistic to expect him to spend everything. But that is the only restriction, Ryan Smiths money.

 

[LoPo]

Once again...it’s just Ryan Smiths money. I understand that it’s not realistic to expect him to spend everything. But that is the only restriction, Ryan Smiths money.

Its Ryan Smith's money right now and we are using picks to shed 8 million.

But it doesn't matter whose money it is. Its dumb to pay Rudy the supermax.

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[KqWIN]

Its Ryan Smith's money right now and we are using picks to shed 8 million.

But it doesn't matter whose money it is. Its dumb to pay Rudy the supermax.

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It is significantly worse to let him walk for nothing or trade him for pennies IMO. If he walks, we have don't have cap space to sign him. If we trade him, that package isn't going to come close to what Rudy provides us. If you're willing to pay him the max but not the supermax, it's a better decision to pay him the supermax and off someone like Clarkson instead. Gobert is significantly better than any trade package we could get + Clarkson. But again, the only thing keeping the Jazz from having Gobert and Clarkson is Ryan Smith being willing to pay.

If you can put together a scenario where we letting him go or trading him is better, I'm all ears, but I really don't see it. Hopefully the Jazz can get him for less, but they've proven to be horrible at contract negotiations. Everyone, including the guys who want to be here, get paid a premium. Sounds like you don't want to give it to him on principle, but if it's the best move it's the move.

 

[LoPo]

It is significantly worse to let him walk for nothing or trade him for pennies IMO. If he walks, we have don't have cap space to sign him. If we trade him, that package isn't going to come close to what Rudy provides us. If you're willing to pay him the max but not the supermax, it's a better decision to pay him the supermax and off someone like Clarkson instead. Gobert is significantly better than any trade package we could get + Clarkson. But again, the only thing keeping the Jazz from having Gobert and Clarkson is Ryan Smith being willing to pay.

If you can put together a scenario where we letting him go or trading him is better, I'm all ears, but I really don't see it. Hopefully the Jazz can get him for less, but they've proven to be horrible at contract negotiations. Everyone, including the guys who want to be here, get paid a premium. Sounds like you don't want to give it to him on principle, but if it's the best move it's the move.

Why should we pay Rudy so much we have to sacrifice a quality guy like Clarkson?

I think we could get value for Rudy in a trade.

Lastly, Rudy will be an awful player by the time he ends the 4th year of an extension. Rim protectors with little ball skills are borderline worthless when they reach 30+ years old. Rudy will be 33 in year 5. Making $50 million.

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[KqWIN]

Why should we pay Rudy so much we have to sacrifice a quality guy like Clarkson?

I think we could get value for Rudy in a trade.

Lastly, Rudy will be an awful player by the time he ends the 4th year of an extension. Rim protectors with little ball skills are borderline worthless when they reach 30+ years old. Rudy will be 33 in year 5. Making $50 million.

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I don't think we can get fair value for Rudy. He's underrated to begin with, there are not many suitors for C's, he's not well liked among the "in crowd" of stars, and of course he's on a one year deal. I think in any Rudy trade, we get robbed. Seriously, what kind of package do you think Rudy on a one year deal is getting?

The reason why you would pay Rudy so much is because he's Rudy, not Jordan Clarkson. That's self pretty self explanatory to me. Clarkson should not prevent you from keeping Gobert. If you move on from Gobert, it's not like you get the equivalent of $35M in value. You either get nothing if he walks with zero cap space to replace him, or a trade package that won't be close to the value he would bring. I cannot fathom the Jazz getting a package that combined with Clarkson is more valuable than Gobert.

The future with an overpaid Gobert is significantly better than without him.

 

[LoPo]

I don't think we can get fair value for Rudy. He's underrated to begin with, there are not many suitors for C's, he's not well liked among the "in crowd" of stars, and of course he's on a one year deal. I think in any Rudy trade, we get robbed. Seriously, what kind of package do you think Rudy on a one year deal is getting?

The reason why you would pay Rudy so much is because he's Rudy, not Jordan Clarkson. That's self pretty self explanatory to me. Clarkson should not prevent you from keeping Gobert. If you move on from Gobert, it's not like you get the equivalent of $35M in value. You either get nothing if he walks with zero cap space to replace him, or a trade package that won't be close to the value he would bring. I cannot fathom the Jazz getting a package that combined with Clarkson is more valuable than Gobert.

The future with an overpaid Gobert is significantly better than without him.

We haven't gotten out of the 1st round built around Rudy. It was unknown Donovan that carried us to our only playoff series win in the Rudy era.

Continuing to build everything around Rudy, including our finances, is a poor decision.

The Wiz thought it was wise to pay Wall rather than lose him for nothing. That failed. The Chris Paul contract was seen as a negative. The monster Blake Griffin deal is seen as a negative. Steph Curry will be seen as overpaid before his deal is done.

Almost every player not named LeBron paid over $40 million at 30+ is a bad idea. Just look at the history of the league. Getting some value for a good player is better than overpaying one.

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[KqWIN]

We haven't gotten out of the 1st round built around Rudy. It was unknown Donovan that carried us to our only playoff series win in the Rudy era.

Continuing to build everything around Rudy, including our finances, is a poor decision.

The Wiz thought it was wise to pay Wall rather than lose him for nothing. That failed. The Chris Paul contract was seen as a negative. The monster Blake Griffin deal is seen as a negative. Steph Curry will be seen as overpaid before his deal is done.

Almost every player not named LeBron paid over $40 million at 30+ is a bad idea. Just look at the history of the league. Getting some value for a good player is better than overpaying one.

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Rudy is the best player on the team by a mile. Without him, we don’t even make the playoffs. He was the best player in the OKC series, and if Donovan or anyone else could throw the ball in the ocean the Jazz would have won both series against HOU.

John Wall tore his ACL and Achilles. That is a drastic situation, and you still can’t say the alternative of letting him leave is better.

Blake Griffin yielded great value in trade and built they foundation for what they have now.

Steph Curry is Steph Curry. You really think GSW is mad about having Steph Curry and would rather trade him instead? Ridiculous. He could be the worst player in the league for his last season. It doesn’t matter because you got to have Steph Curry on your team for for years.

You have to take the emotional side out of it. It’s about the best path forward. If there is a decent trade package....sure. But there won’t be. I cannot fathom thinking Jordan Clarkson is so important that you lose Rudy over him.

 

[Troat Guru]

Honestly I’d rather trade both Donovan and Rudy and start to rebuild than giving him a supermax.
If the Jazz really want to try to win something they can’t do that.
I mean, I really love Rudy and so I know perfectly well that he is the solid basement on which the whole team is built... but he cannot be the most paid player in a serious contender.
If we give him the supermax now, we’ll stay into mediocrity for the next 5 years...a complete rebuild seems to me a far better option tbh.
Overpaying Rudy is not the best option...but letting him walk out would be a terrible scenario as well.

Damn, really hope Rudy will stay here with a fair deal.

 

[LoPo]

Rudy is the best player on the team by a mile. Without him, we don’t even make the playoffs. He was the best player in the OKC series, and if Donovan or anyone else could throw the ball in the ocean the Jazz would have won both series against HOU.

John Wall tore his ACL and Achilles. That is a drastic situation, and you still can’t say the alternative of letting him leave is better.

Blake Griffin yielded great value in trade and built they foundation for what they have now.

Steph Curry is Steph Curry. You really think GSW is mad about having Steph Curry and would rather trade him instead? Ridiculous. He could be the worst player in the league for his last season. It doesn’t matter because you got to have Steph Curry on your team for for years.

You have to take the emotional side out of it. It’s about the best path forward. If there is a decent trade package....sure. But there won’t be. I cannot fathom thinking Jordan Clarkson is so important that you lose Rudy over him.

Rudy was why we beat OKC? Take off your Rudy homer glasses. What an ignorant take.

Rudy is the most important regular season player we have because we build the entire system around him. Our system is unique because he is unique. However, its not like our other professional basketball players couldn't find success playing a different system without him.

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[KqWIN]

Rudy was why we beat OKC? Take off your Rudy homer glasses. What an ignorant take.

Rudy is the most important regular season player we have because we build the entire system around him. Our system is unique because he is unique. However, its not like our other professional basketball players couldn't find success playing a different system without him.

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We beat OKC for a lot of reasons. Rudy was the best player in that series. Donovan played well and had some huge games, but that was a defensive series anchored by Gobert.

It is true that Rudy is the entire defense, specifically on defense. But even if we switch schemes, it doesn't mean we'll be good defensively. The Jazz would be a terrible defensive team regardless of what system they play without Rudy.

 

[Getting Traded]

We beat OKC for a lot of reasons. Rudy was the best player in that series. Donovan played well and had some huge games, but that was a defensive series anchored by Gobert.

It is true that Rudy is the entire defense, specifically on defense. But even if we switch schemes, it doesn't mean we'll be good defensively. The Jazz would be a terrible defensive team regardless of what system they play without Rudy.

Getting Favors back just pushed our defense up a couple of notches, so long as he stays healthy.

 

[LoPo]

We beat OKC for a lot of reasons. Rudy was the best player in that series. Donovan played well and had some huge games, but that was a defensive series anchored by Gobert.

It is true that Rudy is the entire defense, specifically on defense. But even if we switch schemes, it doesn't mean we'll be good defensively. The Jazz would be a terrible defensive team regardless of what system they play without Rudy.

First paragraph: you're a moron if you actually believe that. Some could argue Favors was as important as Rudy in that OKC series. Nobody as important as Don.

I never said we would be as good defensively without Rudy. I said we could find a way to win as much without Rudy. We would have to do it in a different way.

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[KqWIN]

First paragraph: you're a moron if you actually believe that. Some could argue Favors was as important as Rudy in that OKC series. Nobody as important as Don.

I never said we would be as good defensively without Rudy. I said we could find a way to win as much without Rudy. We would have to do it in a different way.

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I could see how you might say Mitchell was the most valuable because the Jazz didn't have another scorer at that time, but it's clear to me that Rudy was the best player in that series. That series was won on the defensive end and as we've said several times now, Rudy is the entire defensive system.

I don't care how we in, but you do have to find a way to win more than you can without Rudy. How do we do that? That is the point....by keeping spare pieces like Jordan Clarkson instead? There are only 10-15 players better in the league than Rudy. It's much easier said than done.

 

[LoPo]

I could see how you might say Mitchell was the most valuable because the Jazz didn't have another scorer at that time, but it's clear to me that Rudy was the best player in that series. That series was won on the defensive end and as we've said several times now, Rudy is the entire defensive system.

I don't care how we in, but you do have to find a way to win more than you can without Rudy. How do we do that? That is the point....by keeping spare pieces like Jordan Clarkson instead? There are only 10-15 players better in the league than Rudy. It's much easier said than done.

You aren't comprehending my point. It's not about Clarkson. Its about the next Favors, Clarkson, whoever to add to the roster we have thats lacking. Paying Rudy $10 more than fair costs us future depth.

As for OKC, Rudy went toe to toe with Adams. He lost as many battles as he won.

Don and Rubio outplayed PG and Westbrook. Don was the best player in the series by a bit.


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[KqWIN]

You aren't comprehending my point. It's not about Clarkson. Its about the next Favors, Clarkson, whoever to add to the roster we have thats lacking. Paying Rudy $10 more than fair costs us future depth.

As for OKC, Rudy went toe to toe with Adams. He lost as many battles as he won.

Don and Rubio outplayed PG and Westbrook. Don was the best player in the series by a bit.


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You're smart enough to know that basketball is a 5v5 game, and not a series of 1v1 matchups. Gobert is not the best defender in the league because of his matchup with the other C. That's not what makes him "the entire system". If you honestly think that looking across the matchups like that is the correct way to evaluate the game...I have nothing for you.

Without Rudy, we don't have Rudy. That's the difference you have to make up when you lose Rudy. If you have to off someone because Rudy is overpaid, that reality is better than letting Rudy walk or trading him for pennies. Whatever you get for Rudy in trade is not going to provide more value than Rudy without the spare parts you can't have.

So as painful as it is that we might not be able to sign a quality bench guy or two later on, it is significantly worse to not have Rudy Gobert. It's not a good thing to give Gobert the supermax. But it's also not a good thing to lose him for nothing or trade him for pennies. If you can put together a scenario where losing him for nothing or trading him for pennies makes us a better team, I'm all ears. But simply saying that supermaxing is bad does not contribute to the discussion.