NFL Talk
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7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Agree on Elway, agree to disagree on Manning. While there was some talk about him versus Leaf, Bill Polian will tell you that while the Colts did their due diligence on both players (as they should have), they decided on Manning rather early. Just because that didn't come out at the time was more about the Colts keeping everything internal so they had all of their options in regards to possible trades, etc. No need to tip your hand when you don't have to.
I think that Ryan Leaf had the measurments that would at least force you to look into him if you were a GM with the #1 pick, however I think each and every GM at the time would have ended up selecting Manning over Leaf.
With that being said, most of Manning's draft stock came from his pedigree and football smarts more than anything else. That's why I'm more inclined to put Luck in the Elway category. His physical talents are off the charts, plus he seems to have the cerebral part of it down as well.
It's not really a disagreement. The only knock on Manning was that he couldn't beat Florida and was a proven commodity. I remember wishing the Rams would have tanked the season to get Manning.
Andrew Luck - 6'4'' 235 Lbs
73.1% Completition
14 TD - 2 INT
1,383 Yards
12 Rushes - 60 Yards - 1 TD
Kellen Moore - 6'1'' - 191 Lbs
74.0% Completition
14 TD - 4 INT
1391 Yards
5 Rushes - 5 Yards - 0 TD
Landry Jones - 6'4'' 229 Lbs
69.3% Completition
13 TD - 5 INT
1814 Yards
10 Rushes - 2 Yards - 2 TD's
To me there are many 'options' at QB and if I had the 1st pick I would STRONGLY consider trading if someone offered me a package that I couldn't resist. Give me your 1st round pick for the next 3 years along with a few 2nd's and I trade down and draft Moore or Jones.
73.1% Completition
14 TD - 2 INT
1,383 Yards
12 Rushes - 60 Yards - 1 TD
Kellen Moore - 6'1'' - 191 Lbs
74.0% Completition
14 TD - 4 INT
1391 Yards
5 Rushes - 5 Yards - 0 TD
Landry Jones - 6'4'' 229 Lbs
69.3% Completition
13 TD - 5 INT
1814 Yards
10 Rushes - 2 Yards - 2 TD's
To me there are many 'options' at QB and if I had the 1st pick I would STRONGLY consider trading if someone offered me a package that I couldn't resist. Give me your 1st round pick for the next 3 years along with a few 2nd's and I trade down and draft Moore or Jones.
I've never seen Moore projected as a first round pick which to me is surprising. He looks like the real thing to me.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Usually I'd tend to agree with you but not this year. Luck is so much better than those other two quarterbacks, at least according to experts, that you go with him. He's "the sure thing" much like the other two best prospects of the last 30 years, Elway and Megatron. And though it's a team sport you really do win or lose based on your qb play. Take the sure thing and run with it for the next 15 years. I can't comment on Moore much but Jones will flame out imo.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Luck. Take the sure thing.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
I'm with Salmon. Normally I would package the #1 for a king's ransom, but not in this case. Luck is just too good to pass up. I'm also curious why you didn't include Matt Barkley in your above post. I think it's a pretty safe bet that he comes out this year and I'd put him way ahead of Kellen Moore. Moore has had a great college career but he's pretty small and I'm not sold that his Boise St. numbers are going to translate to the NFL. Landry Jones and Matt Barkley have ideal NFL size and IMO stronger arms. I'd like to see Miami go with either of them if they're unable to snag Luck, but I don't even see Moore as a 1st round pick at this point.
The only recent QB with similar size to Moore that I would consider a legit franchise QB would be Drew Brees. You just don't see alot of QB's around 6 feet tall dominating at their position in the NFL.
//r00t 4 Jazz
Well-Known Member
Normally I would think Barkley should be the second best pro prospect but with the recent run of USC QB's (Matt Leinart and Sanchez) it would make me nervous but if he turns into a Palmer then great.
No particular reason I didn't include Barkley.. just threw a few up there that I knew had put up good numbers vs. what Luck is doing. Barkley is probably a better prospect but Moore just wins and puts up numbers. Hard to complain about that.
I can see Moore being a 'Brees' type where he flies under the radar but turns into a star in the right system.
I can see Moore being a 'Brees' type where he flies under the radar but turns into a star in the right system.
Jets should draft Kellen Moore. Sanchez blows, Moore has better intangibles.
The what scares me about Moore but at the same time I love. He has the intangibles but if you look at the most QB's in the NFL he is tiny.
Peyton Manning - 6'5'' - 230 Lbs
Drew Breesy - 6'0'' - 209 Lbs
Phillip Rivers - 6'5'' - 228 Lbs
Big Ben - 6'5'' - 241 Lbs (More like 265)
Kibbles & Vick - 6'0'' - 215 Lbs
Tom Bunchen - 6'4'' - 224 Lbs
Tony Oh No - 6'2'' - 228
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 6'2'' - 225 Lbs
Peyton Manning - 6'5'' - 230 Lbs
Drew Breesy - 6'0'' - 209 Lbs
Phillip Rivers - 6'5'' - 228 Lbs
Big Ben - 6'5'' - 241 Lbs (More like 265)
Kibbles & Vick - 6'0'' - 215 Lbs
Tom Bunchen - 6'4'' - 224 Lbs
Tony Oh No - 6'2'' - 228
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 6'2'' - 225 Lbs
Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
Moore is just too small for a 1st round pick. It's a serious disadvantage and less accomplished QBs will be picked much earlier than him.
Being a tall QB is fine and dandy, but it is hardly a must.
I wouldn't say a must but if you look at the success rates of the good QB's currently and in the past there seems to be many more tall QB's. Even Montana, Steve Young, and Farve were all 6'2''. The other thing to consider is how much the game continues to evolve with monster size players that run faster and that are stronger.
Lamar Woodley - 6'2'' - 265 Lbs
Jack Lambert - 6'4'' - 220 Lbs
Lambert was considered by many as a freak for the team in the 70's. Woodley is considered just a bigger back but more the norm now.
QB's need to be taller to see over their O lines as well....
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Drew Brees is the only recent "smallish" QB I can think of who has consistently played at an all-pro level. While being a big QB isn't a "must", it's probably as close as it can get. As Cope mentioned, LB's and D-lineman are bigger than ever. Not only do you want a QB who can handle the punishment, it's hard for a 6'1" QB to see his passing lanes when all of the O-lineman and D-lineman infront of him are mostly 6'3" and bigger.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Shows how much you know about football. Hardly a must? Please.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Brees is 6'0". Vick is 6'0". McNabb is 6'2". Yes, it's a hardly a must. I'm not saying it's not important. It is very much so. I'd have trouble drafting a qb who's less than 6'2" or 6'3", minimally. But again, it's not a must. It's not some absolute for success.