Occupy Wall Street

[LogGrad98]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the NYC Occupy Wall Street protestors don't want the NYC homeless crashing their party?
They may have backed off their stance a bit now, but they did not want the homeless, or "fake protestors" coming and eating their food.
They had to change the menu from gourmet items, to plain brown rice. Well, they though about it, I don't know if they did it.

On NPR they talked about this. Several of the OWS groups changed their menus for a time to discourage freeloaders. It does seem ironic, or at least strange. They are the "99%" fighting for the little guy, but not the little guy that is hungry and possibly can't afford to donate. Also, they are the 99% that are being economically down-trodden, but by one account they had menus with things like braised duck, sushi, all-organic catered vegetarian/vegan, etc. Hardly the standard fare of the economic down-trodden. Not that they are not entitled to whatever the organizers can swing, but it does make it tough to take their message seriously.

 

[The Thriller]

This is the classic, SHOOT THE MESSENGER argument that the right wing is preaching today.

Just ignore the valid concerns over wealth distribution, the lobbying, and how "corporations are people too" so lets let them buy off our government

I say lets give more tax cuts to the rich. Job creation has been just wonderful this past decade because the richies have received so many tax cuts and trickle down economics is working out so well....

Everyone knows that the best government is run by the super wealthy and (minority) in the USA.

You can really see who drinks the foxnews kool-aid on here, just from watching their posts. It's hilarious how tea party peeps are bagging on the OWS protesters. When the exact same arguments, such as changing meals, excluding others, protesting while they "could" be working, not having a clear message, etc could all easily be said about the Tea Party.

 

[The Thriller]

Why would anybody attribute tax policy to our difficulty in creating jobs right now? Derivatives, derivatives, derivatives, offshoring. That's why we're in this mess and that's why it's not going to be fixed anytime soon because those things take years to correct.

Very debatable.

And further, I was merely making an attempt at humor, since all we ever here from the right side is more corporate welfare. The American people are basically blackmailed by the right, into thinking that unless the Bush Tax cuts, oil subsidies, and farm subsidies are continued, then the economy will never recover, things will be soooo much more expensive, and we'll all be punished and face weeping, walling, and gnashing of teeth. What we see, out of the right, is nothing more than corporations blackmailing Americans. The same could be said about the left, about entitlements and environmental groups. Which is true, Americans are constantly being blackmailed and intimidated by both sides. However, I find that there's a link to who's doing the blackmailing and through whom. It's obvious that there's a connection between what your government does and who pays them the most.

If you cannot see it, then you're willingly ignorant. If you cannot see the risk in allowing a few corporations or wealthy hands control your government, then all is lost for you.

Lastly, I find it hilarious how you and a few other posters are having a mass orgy to blast the OWS people for essentially doing what your tea party folks were doing. Exercising their freedom of speech. If you disagree with their message, that's fine. To me, the tea party has been hijacked by the Koch brothers and I don't support the tea party's message at all today. However, you cannot be honest and on one hand support protesting and then on the other, insult the OWS people for what they're doing right now. Everything, from changing dinner meals to excluding some from participating, from missing work and school to outright intimidation of opponents, from throwing down huge chunks of money to wasting days and days on protests, have been done by the tea party protesters.

Once again, shoot the message, if you dare. Which, essentially, foxnews and co don't do.

But go ahead, shoot the messengers. While at the same time, drink up! It's tea time!

 

[The Thriller]

Why did you delete your message?

Tea time?

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Lastly, I find it hilarious how you and a few other posters are having a mass orgy to blast the OWS people for essentially doing what your tea party folks were doing. Exercising their freedom of speech. If you disagree with their message, that's fine. To me, the tea party has been hijacked by the Koch brothers and I don't support the tea party's message at all today. However, you cannot be honest and on one hand support protesting and then on the other, insult the OWS people for what they're doing right now. Everything, from changing dinner meals to excluding some from participating, from missing work and school to outright intimidation of opponents, from throwing down huge chunks of money to wasting days and days on protests, have been done by the tea party protesters.

Me? The guy that is always ranting about banks on here? Not at all. I'm just sitting back and watching from 2,200 miles away or whatever it is. I'm not for or against them right now because nobody has been able to paint me a clear picture of what they actually are. 99% of the media guys don't even know the difference between an anarchist and a libertarian. I'd have to go to New York and scope out the protests for myself to tell you if I'm against them or for them for certain. For now, I just take single issues that float out from the crowd and decide based on that. I'll judge them collectively retroactively since my vantage point sucks at the moment.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Why did you delete your message?

Tea time?

No, I decided I didn't want to get into this stuff today....but since you quoted it.....

 

[The Pearl]

This is the classic, SHOOT THE MESSENGER argument that the right wing is preaching today.

Just ignore the valid concerns over wealth distribution, the lobbying, and how "corporations are people too" so lets let them buy off our government

I say lets give more tax cuts to the rich. Job creation has been just wonderful this past decade because the richies have received so many tax cuts and trickle down economics is working out so well....

Everyone knows that the best government is run by the super wealthy and (minority) in the USA.

You can really see who drinks the foxnews kool-aid on here, just from watching their posts. It's hilarious how tea party peeps are bagging on the OWS protesters. When the exact same arguments, such as changing meals, excluding others, protesting while they "could" be working, not having a clear message, etc could all easily be said about the Tea Party.

I will play along. How are increasing taxes on whomever your target group is going to improve the lot of the OWS crowd? Nobody, even some of the smarter supporters and smarter economic minds in this country have no answer to this question. Remember the collection of additional taxes, at whatever marginal rate you desire, flows to the US Treasury. There is no existing legislation that would flow these additional funds to the 99%. Other than a separate earmarked trust fund specifically designated for total redistribution, the current situation for many will not change. You are just compressing the 1% down to the 99%. It just makes the 1% less rich, but the 99% is still in the same economic class. Your hot neighbors wife just gained 15lbs but you your wife is still ugly.

 

[The Thriller]

I will play along. How are increasing taxes on whomever your target group is going to improve the lot of the OWS crowd? Nobody, even some of the smarter supporters and smarter economic minds in this country have no answer to this question. Remember the collection of additional taxes, at whatever marginal rate you desire, flows to the US Treasury. There is no existing legislation that would flow these additional funds to the 99%. Other than a separate earmarked trust fund specifically designated for total redistribution, the current situation for many will not change. You are just compressing the 1% down to the 99%. It just makes the 1% less rich, but the 99% is still in the same economic class. Your hot neighbors wife just gained 15lbs but you your wife is still ugly.

LOL

I'm not saying that raising taxes should happen to punish the rich and help the 99%

I just find it humorous how the American public are being blackmailed. The "only hope" for the future is to make the Bush Tax cuts permanent. Just remember how a year or so ago the repubs wouldn't extend unemployment benefits unless the tax cuts were extended?

Nothing more, than blackmail.

And the right's solution to everything, is to throw away another tax cut or subsidy. Trickle down economics sure are working....

 

[The Thriller]

My wife, is pretty damn hot

 

[larryselbows]

I will play along. How are increasing taxes on whomever your target group is going to improve the lot of the OWS crowd? Nobody, even some of the smarter supporters and smarter economic minds in this country have no answer to this question. Remember the collection of additional taxes, at whatever marginal rate you desire, flows to the US Treasury. There is no existing legislation that would flow these additional funds to the 99%. Other than a separate earmarked trust fund specifically designated for total redistribution, the current situation for many will not change. You are just compressing the 1% down to the 99%. It just makes the 1% less rich, but the 99% is still in the same economic class. Your hot neighbors wife just gained 15lbs but you your wife is still ugly.

I can see where you're coming from, and I agree with you that taxing the rich at a higher rate than everyone else is class warfare. The problem I have is that the current system is strongly tilted for the rich as many pay only capital gains (17%). This has to be corrected somehow, as I would argue that it is it's own form of class warfare against the middle class.

I fear that if we don't lessen the debt burden somehow (there will have to be tax hikes along with some budget cuts) then the only way we can get ourselves out of the deep debt hole we are currently in is by inflating the dollar, which affects all of us, rich or poor.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

This is the classic, SHOOT THE MESSENGER argument that the right wing is preaching today.

Just ignore the valid concerns over wealth distribution, the lobbying, and how "corporations are people too" so lets let them buy off our government

I say lets give more tax cuts to the rich. Job creation has been just wonderful this past decade because the richies have received so many tax cuts and trickle down economics is working out so well....

Everyone knows that the best government is run by the super wealthy and (minority) in the USA.

You can really see who drinks the foxnews kool-aid on here, just from watching their posts. It's hilarious how tea party peeps are bagging on the OWS protesters. When the exact same arguments, such as changing meals, excluding others, protesting while they "could" be working, not having a clear message, etc could all easily be said about the Tea Party.

"What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say"

It was an interesting point I was making, because I cannot back a stance if 1) I don't know what that stance is, 2) They don't know what that stance is, or 3) The actions of the people pushing for something are contrary to what they are saying.

You who are quick to judge (incorrectly by the way) about what posters think, or where they stand may push me to do something though.
I just might start watching Fox News if you hate them so much.
You seem to have so much anger and hatred oozing out of your posts, that something you hate so much could actually be good?
I will continue to watch your posts so I know what to do.

By the way, do you have any movie recommendations, or books. Specifically any movies you hate, or books you despise?

TIA

 

[One Brow]

... but not the little guy that is hungry and possibly can't afford to donate.

Why do you assume that "donate" means "money"? Every interview I have read/heard has has talked about contributing to the safety, cleanliness, etc. of the grounds.

 

[The Pearl]

LOL

I'm not saying that raising taxes should happen to punish the rich and help the 99%

I just find it humorous how the American public are being blackmailed. The "only hope" for the future is to make the Bush Tax cuts permanent. Just remember how a year or so ago the repubs wouldn't extend unemployment benefits unless the tax cuts were extended?

Nothing more, than blackmail.

And the right's solution to everything, is to throw away another tax cut or subsidy. Trickle down economics sure are working....

You still didn't answer the question. All politics between left and right is blackmail. It is called compromise. I don't have a problem with putting raising taxes on the table if there is a concrete, economic reason for doing so. Doing so just to make everybody feel better or because Warren Buffett thinks so is idiotic. So what is the rational? To pay down the debt? Big deal, so the debt goes from X to X - whatever amount you raise taxes. No change there for the 99%.

And by the way Capital Gains taxes, with which Buffett is eluding too have two necessary components before it can be collected. First, an unrealized capital gain must EXIST, and second an unrealized capital gain has to be realized. It is a tax mandated by the government but totally in control of the taxpayer.

 

[One Brow]

You still didn't answer the question. All politics between left and right is blackmail. It is called compromise. I don't have a problem with putting raising taxes on the table if there is a concrete, economic reason for doing so. Doing so just to make everybody feel better or because Warren Buffett thinks so is idiotic. So what is the rational? To pay down the debt? Big deal, so the debt goes from X to X - whatever amount you raise taxes. No change there for the 99%.

Do you think infrastructure maintenance and improvements will help the 99%? If not, what do you think could?

 

[The Pearl]

I can see where you're coming from, and I agree with you that taxing the rich at a higher rate than everyone else is class warfare. The problem I have is that the current system is strongly tilted for the rich as many pay only capital gains (17%). This has to be corrected somehow, as I would argue that it is it's own form of class warfare against the middle class.

I fear that if we don't lessen the debt burden somehow (there will have to be tax hikes along with some budget cuts) then the only way we can get ourselves out of the deep debt hole we are currently in is by inflating the dollar, which affects all of us, rich or poor.

Raising the capital gains isn't going to change anything for the middle class. The rich will either pay it or not pay it depending on their decision to sell an asset. They will be just less rich. Again that money flows to the treasury. How does that change the plight of the middle class or lessen class warfare?

It seems there is this perception that the middle class is suffering, which may or may not be actually true, which has led to "throw anything against the wall as an explanation and hope it sticks" so that we can have explanations that make us feel better.

 

[GVC]

Clearly, the terrorists are to blame.

 

[The Pearl]

Do you think infrastructure maintenance and improvements will help the 99%? If not, what do you think could?

Sure, but that ship has sailed. Now, maybe increasing taxes on the "rich" for the purposes of funding a coast to coast infrastructure program? Very interesting. How many of the OWS crowd would be willing to move to Kansas and repair bridges to pay back their 150K loans?

 

[Agoxlea]

Sure, but that ship has sailed. Now, maybe increasing taxes on the "rich" for the purposes of funding a coast to coast infrastructure program? Very interesting. How many of the OWS crowd would be willing to move to Kansas and repair bridges to pay back their 150K loans?

You realize people already live in Kansas right?

 

[LogGrad98]

This is the classic, SHOOT THE MESSENGER argument that the right wing is preaching today.

Just ignore the valid concerns over wealth distribution, the lobbying, and how "corporations are people too" so lets let them buy off our government

I say lets give more tax cuts to the rich. Job creation has been just wonderful this past decade because the richies have received so many tax cuts and trickle down economics is working out so well....

Everyone knows that the best government is run by the super wealthy and (minority) in the USA.

You can really see who drinks the foxnews kool-aid on here, just from watching their posts. It's hilarious how tea party peeps are bagging on the OWS protesters. When the exact same arguments, such as changing meals, excluding others, protesting while they "could" be working, not having a clear message, etc could all easily be said about the Tea Party.

The Thriller agrees with the protest = the protestors are above criticism in any way shape or form or he will pull out his almighty stereotypes to slap you.

Got it.

 

[larryselbows]

Raising the capital gains isn't going to change anything for the middle class. The rich will either pay it or not pay it depending on their decision to sell an asset. They will be just less rich. Again that money flows to the treasury. How does that change the plight of the middle class or lessen class warfare?

It seems there is this perception that the middle class is suffering, which may or may not be actually true, which has led to "throw anything against the wall as an explanation and hope it sticks" so that we can have explanations that make us feel better.

I'm confused by what you mean when you say that the money flows to the treasury. By definition:

The basic functions of the Department of the Treasury include:

Managing federal finances;
Collecting taxes, duties and money paid to and due to the U.S. and paying all bills of the U.S.;
Producing all postage stamps, currency, and coinage of the U.S.;
Managing government accounts and the United States public debt;
Supervising national banks and thrift institutions;
Advising on domestic and international financial, monetary, economic, trade and tax policy – fiscal policy being the sum of these, and the ultimate responsibility of Congress.
Enforcing Federal finance and tax laws;
Investigating and prosecuting tax evaders;
Publishing statistical reports.

So in essence, the money we pay in taxes is used by the government for basic necessities. I suppose this does not directly impact the middle-class, but certainly it would help to balance the federal budget.

My point was simply that I think the rich should pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else. Not more, not less.

Finally, there isn't a perception that the middle class is struggling. The middle-class is struggling. How do we fix it? Who knows? But certainly, the plan we have in place now isn't working, and I think most people would agree that it has largely to do with irresponsible investing strategies by the large banks, the massive debt we took on during the Bush and Obama presidencies, and globalization of the world marketplace which has weakened the basic tenants of trickle down ideology.