Jazz Offseason Plan

[Handlogten's Heros]

If there's a term for when a journalist's single priority is to make sure they don't embarrass the people they are covering because those people are their sources, Tony Jones would be the picture in the wikipedia page. The dude is a shill of the highest order.

Anyway, yeah. The Batum thing... ****. Can any of the prognosticators that were saying 'he'd be the 9th guy, he'd be supplanting Niang - a guy who is probably not an NBA player when the moment matters. Even a cooked Batum would be better, but I basically guarantee he isn't. He's demonstrated that his situation matters greatly to him and it reflects in his play,' get a voice, even a teeny tiny one? The more glimpses we get to observe how the sausage is made in FOs, the more I'm convinced they're just some lucky people.

So now they're going to prioritize getting Batum now that he will be several times more expensive, will likely require multiple years that he wouldn't have last year, and which will be yet another roadblock on developing anybody that might be worth a **** that they get in the draft (though I suspect that the Jazz trade out or down to get off Favors' deal that not-at-all coincidentally features many of the same drawbacks as would Batum's hypothetical deal).

If I was Donovan, I'd be biding my time here.

It’s so funny... professionals should be able to project what the needs will be and add protections against those needs. It’s easy to say after the fact... yeah that guy is good. Batum in Charlotte was not motivated... they told him he was out of the rotation... he wasn’t old but that guy gonna look washed when that’s how you treat him.

Even if they didn’t get Batum... Craig, Bazemore types were out there. Even if you feel you needed a backup 5 there were some options like Jamychal Green that could be really beneficial (and we cheaper) than blowing the whole wad on Favs. Especially when you had to know a money crunch was coming.

Pros see this stuff before it happens... not react to a ****** situation after the fact... and when they throw they hands up like “well what can we do now this bed is made” wellllll who made the bed?

 

[homeytennis]

It makes you wonder who and what were driving things personnel wise. I thought the team was going to the extreme to avoid the luxury tax. with all the bizarre roster moves paying teams to take players off the Jazz hands. Then there was the cutting of NWG. I cheered it at the time but thought the timing was weird given his sterling play in the preseason. There was some fallout from the Gonzaga community including a prominent Jazz alum and then NWG's subsequent play in Europe. I'm thinking maybe Quin wasn't the guy that jettisoned him along with the waiving of Jeff Green. If things were as toxic between Quin and DL as has been written, nothing would surprise me.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think Rudy ends up on the block before season ends. Not in a we need to trade him mode, but almost a Melo Deron situation with him and Simmons maybe. We see what they uncover in their effort to trade him and maybe see something that works for us. Nothing good pops up and we will wait and see what happens. If he was trade eligible I think we’d be looking.

You sign Conley, hopefully find a good use for taxpayer MLE, look to save some money on Favs or maybe JC and Bojan... see how it looks and if it looks bad you move Mike or Rudy and part of that deal is you’d be trying to cut 10M or so from the budget. I didn’t see Ryan going 60M into the tax for a 2nd round exit. Tax is determined by end of year salary so you can get a look before you decide to slash the budget.

Yeah, most of this is more-or-less where I've landed. I'm just squirming in my seat cuz this team is obviously not that close. If they couldn't close the deal in the most open path to the Larry O'Brien Trophy probably ever, why would basically the same team BUT A YEAR OLDER get any closer in a more-crowded field?

It's fine. It's fine.

 

[oneye]

Mike is getting older, at the same time, CP3 is older, has had a lot of injury issues and at age 36 has looked great this year. It’s very possible Mike will be fine over the next few years, but he’s for sure getting to a point it’s questionable.

 

[LoPo]

It all comes down to Conley. Our whole off-season it seems.

Not only did we overpay to get him, but now we have to probably overpay him again so our roster doesn't crumble. I hate this situation.

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[NUMBERICA]

It all comes down to Conley. Our whole off-season it seems.

Not only did we overpay to get him, but now we have to probably overpay him again so our roster doesn't crumble. I hate this situation.

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I'm hoping for a sign-and-trade. It might force the Jazz's hand to try out something else while getting something out of the asset of Conley ('s Bird Rights).

And yes, I trade a COOL FUN SEASON LOL!1 that failed spectacularly, early, and predictably for a chance to believe that something better might be built.

 

[homeytennis]

I think GMs having a bunch of 2nd round picks was conventional wisdom about five years ago but now it seems out of fashion. For fun I went back and looked at relatively late 2nd round picks from 2013-20 (45th pick on) and found that Niang and Shake Milton were the pick of the litter. Undrafted players had a better chance of success than the 2nd round guys. If I were Brantley and Oni, I would be calling my agent looking for overseas deals.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Mike is getting older, at the same time, CP3 is older, has had a lot of injury issues and at age 36 has looked great this year. It’s very possible Mike will be fine over the next few years, but he’s for sure getting to a point it’s questionable.

I do see that but we also have to remember... CP is like one of the best to ever do it. We shouldn’t expect anyone else to follow a similar path... kinda like Lebron. Mike might figure this thing out but his decline will naturally be sharper than CP3’s because he wasn’t as good as he was.

 

[LoPo]

I'm hoping for a sign-and-trade. It might force the Jazz's hand to try out something else while getting something out of the asset of Conley ('s Bird Rights).

And yes, I trade a COOL FUN SEASON LOL!1 that failed spectacularly, early, and predictably for a chance to believe that something better might be built.

Sign and trade would be the best thing for us, but many people around here don't want to believe that.

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[Ineptimusprime]

Well the other problem with waiting a year is that Conley would be another year older (and likely another year of missing playoff games since it seems pretty clear his hamstring condition is degenerative) which might make his contract negative-value, Bojan would be an expiring, and again, another year to add and develop talent would be lost. I hope they understand that they're gambling the longer they wait (again, assuming they really think they have a chance at retaining Donovan).

If they basically just double-down, the next-most sensible thing is to aggressively blow up the team in 2.5 years.

I'm sorry, y'all, this years playoffs confirmed every concern I had in dramatic fashion and I just don't see this build getting there and I think is just ****ing around.

There’s really no justification to not move Bojan or Joe this offseason if an opportunity to get younger and longer presents itself.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I did like the suggestion of bringing back Neto. Yes having an nba player available to play every night... even though some nights you don’t need him is fairly valuable.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Sign and trade would be the best thing for us, but many people around here don't want to believe that.

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I don’t think the return would be good enough. I get that Mike likely isn’t healthy 100% of the time but when he is the quality of player is far superior to what I’ve seen suggested when we do a sign and trade.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I did like the suggestion of bringing back Neto. Yes having an nba player available to play every night... even though some nights you don’t need him is fairly valuable.

Should never have let him go. Guys that can be useful in a pinch, don't complain about not being in the rotation (and kind of even benefit from it), and are good locker-room guys are important.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don’t think the return would be good enough. I get that Mike likely isn’t healthy 100% of the time but when he is the quality of player is far superior to what I’ve seen suggested when we do a sign and trade.

Yes, but if they get him back, they are going to hold onto him like grim-death, lock the team into this stupid microscopic backcourt, and marry themselves to Mike's degenerative hamstring condition.

If they re-sign him with the intent of trading him mid-season, that is what I think is most preferable. Unfortunately, I just don't think this org has the stones or the foresight to do something like that.

(And none of this means that Conley isn't a great player, but I am just not not a believer that this is the path for the Jazz, especially after how the season ended.)

 

[LoPo]

I don’t think the return would be good enough. I get that Mike likely isn’t healthy 100% of the time but when he is the quality of player is far superior to what I’ve seen suggested when we do a sign and trade.

Overpaying to bring Mike back will probably involve a long deal at too much money. I envision something like 3 years and $20 per year. Ridiculous money.

We already have overpaid Favors. Overpaid Rudy. We really going to invest $70+ million a year on those 3?

I know Conley is a B asset, but I would take two C assets for him that are younger.



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[Ineptimusprime]

Overpaying to bring Mike back will probably involve a long deal at too much money. I envision something like 3 years and $20 per year. Ridiculous money.

We already have overpaid Favors. Overpaid Rudy. We really going to invest $70+ million a year on those 3?

I know Conley is a B asset, but I would take two C assets for him that are younger.



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This is like Hayward offseason-lite. Totally dependent on Conley’s decision to stay or not.

It’s like the Hayward offseason, because we are totally hamstrung and paralyzed until we know what Conley is doing, but it’s “lite,” because keeping or losing Conley isn’t on the same level as keeping or losing Hayward was in 2017.

I would be okay with either outcome, I just hope waiting around to see what Conley decides doesn’t cause us to miss out on a deal that would have made us better. Like, we may not be able to pull off a draft night deal that would make us better because we need to know what Conley is doing before we decide the type of player we’d need to move Bogey/Ingles/Clarkson for.

We’re just stuck being reactive rather than proactive.

If this offseason is just giving up assets to move Fav, resigning Conley, and then signing a bunch of old dudes, then it’s going to be painful.

 

[LoPo]

This is like Hayward offseason-lite. Totally dependent on Conley’s decision to stay or not.

It’s like the Hayward offseason, because we are totally hamstrung and paralyzed until we know what Conley is doing, but it’s “lite,” because keeping or losing Conley isn’t on the same level as keeping or losing Hayward was in 2017.

I would be okay with either outcome, I just hope waiting around to see what Conley decides doesn’t cause us to miss out on a deal that would have made us better. Like, we may not be able to pull off a draft night deal that would make us better because we need to know what Conley is doing before we decide the type of player we’d need to move Bogey/Ingles/Clarkson for.

Exactly right. Conley has us by the balls. We can make the playoffs without him for sure, but we our title chances are weaker if we just lose him for nothing.

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[Ineptimusprime]

Exactly right. Conley has us by the balls. We can make the playoffs without him for sure, but we our title chances are weaker if we just lose him for nothing.

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Mike is Steve Ballmer grabbing balls.

We can be proactive like the guy on his right and try to get his hands off our balls (explore sign and trade options), or we can be like the guy on his left and just let it happen (wait and see what he decides).

We’re the guy on the left for sure.

 

[infection]

The other option is the go all the way the **** in. This is the dangerous option but it’s the option that gets us the youth and players we need...

What this looks like... Favs and a 2024 1st (unprotected... start with top 10 and negotiate down to close the deal) for Lu Dort and Kenrich Williams. Saves some money and gets you cheap athletic production and Lu is under team control... so if he develops into something more he’s restricted... we’d have some salary freeing up then. Add a pick swap in 2025 if that closes the deal. Presti has a thousand picks but he knows he needs to tank one more year. Lu has great value because he is so cheap and productive... something they don’t get the full benefit of because their cap space is only used as dumping grounds.

Getting vets will help but long term Donovan is looking around and no on is really on his timeline. Lu is... pray you nail the puck this year... then maybe you are in bizness.

I’d do this because our window is now (well, yesterday, really, but you know what I mean). We aren’t getting this close again in a while.

I did like the suggestion of bringing back Neto. Yes having an nba player available to play every night... even though some nights you don’t need him is fairly valuable.

Yeah. That makes sense. But you know what would have made even more sense? Not letting him leave so that you have the privilege of paying NWG more in the hopes that he develops into Neto.

 

[infection]

Mike is Steve Ballmer grabbing balls.

We can be proactive like the guy on his right and try to get his hands off our balls (explore sign and trade options), or we can be like the guy on his left and just let it happen (wait and see what he decides).

*Sam Cassell.