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Jazz Offseason Plan

oneye said:
If you take a step back Donovan will ask for a trade next offseason. There are decent avenues the Jazz could take to reroute the ship but it’s going to take a couple years and at least one season of a big step back to do so. The issue is, the dude you lavish over will ask for a trade if you try to take the foot off the gas for a season or two and steer the ship in a different direction. If you knew for sure you could have Donovan another 5/6 years and he wouldn’t throw a fit if you got worse for a couple years you could do it, the Jazz don’t have that luxury and there’s no indication of it at all. They could completely re-work the roster to be more Donovan centric for the future but it would take a couple down years, and I don’t think he’d be okay with that. He’s committed to winning him a championship, not the Jazz.

Don’t re-sign Mike, gauge the market for Rudy, let a few contracts drop, open up cap space for a year or two from now and add longer wings, but you’re looking at 2 seasons of not being a contender, before getting back to possibly being a contender and they do. not. have. that. time.
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I agree that it would be a step back for the regular season. Of course it will be.

But what happens to Rudy's production if Conley leaves without us getting anything back? I believe that Rudy's offensive contribution will fall considerably without a true PG. And I'm a Don homer, but I acknowledge that he isn't a prototypical PG. He'll get better, but he's not going to bring out the best in Rudy.

And we talk about the next couple years, but what about Rudy's really bad extension years when he alone is taking up 30%+ of our cap number and he's aging and even more of a liability?

I think Don is more optimistic about taking a small step back now but have the franchise built around him with a brighter future than worrying about being a late playoff seed.
 
oneye said:
Why does this matter at all if you don’t get those prime years in a Jazz uniform? It’s irrelevant.
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I'm talking about reality. You're talking about your personal fantasy. This thread is for what we should do this offseason with what we know not some unknown alternate reality you create where Don forces a trade next summer.
 
LoPo said:
Look in the mirror. You said Van Vleet was better, and you're saying nobody has disrespected Donovan.

I'm not saying Don is the greatest player out there, but trading him for Dame would be ignorant. Don is heading into his prime while Dame is on the way out. Plus Don makes substantially less.

He plays as good of defense as Dame and Booker who you are so quick to throw praise at.
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You are ridiculous. The FVF reference was tongue and cheek based on the Raptor ratings. You can cook data to support any argument. Lillard's post season stats were better than DM. Booker's regular season FG% stats were better than DM. See how that works?

Why wouldn't I throw praise at DL and DB? They are both exceptionally great players. Just like DM. It's not a mutually exclusive thing. I wouldn't trade DM for DL, but I can objectively say DL is currently a better player than DM. You act like anyone saying anything good about someone other than DM is a direct shot at you. Get over it.
 
Bodhi said:
Yeah, to be clear there was some embellishment and not every single thing was dead on, but....

I hate this mentality of "well we could have it worse, look at all the stuff we got out of it". Well we didn't get a chip and that's why you do it.

Is that a tough bar to set of "chip or failure"? Sure, but SO many of our issues (no wing defenders, paying Fav's too much and drafting Doke etc etc) were pretty obvious to many people, yet we ran in headfirst to the playoffs happy having already wrapped up the ole consolation prize of regular season hero's.

I just dont really get a ton out best record, 3 all-stars, 6th man, DPOY (actually, listing them all out and then knowing we got bounced yet again in the semi's hurts worse) when it all amounts to the same result as a ton of other teams.

*shrug*
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It’s not just chip or failure imo. It’s give yourself the best chance at a chip or failure. In athletics it’s like playing your best game and getting beat… that isn’t necessarily failure imo. Showing up and being unprepared or not giving your best effort is failure . We had a lot of chances to improve. We didn’t make good moves around the edges this year… there were easy moves to make… we essentially hit a few step back threes and blew a couple layups.

For those overly positive on the job the front office did… the head honcho got the axe. Not that owners always get it right but Ryan doesn’t share your same outlook. Many of the front office members were apparently divided in some of the decisions we did. Not many number 1 seeds fire their GM. We can be highly critical of the front office moves this last year even though the got some things right in the past… you can say that M Night Shamyalan is a ****** film maker… even though Sixth Sense is awesome. That’s the movie that gets him the ability to make more movies… but keep ****ing up and eventually we take away the keys.

DL royally screwed up the stuff around the edges last offseason. Sorry if that isn’t pie in the sky positive… I see how awesome we were and know we could have been so much better too. It’s been a pattern that we are routinely lacking something we should already have and address it a season too late.
 
Hearsky said:
You are ridiculous. The FVF reference was tongue and cheek based on the Raptor ratings. You can cook data to support any argument. Lillard's post season stats were better than DM. Booker's regular season FG% stats were better than DM. See how that works?

Why wouldn't I throw praise at DL and DB? They are both exceptionally great players. Just like DM. It's not a mutually exclusive thing. I wouldn't trade DM for DL, but I can objectively say DL is currently a better player than DM. You act like anyone saying anything good about someone other than DM is a direct shot at you. Get over it.
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It’s just like I tell your mom… just cuz I invite over a couple other lady friends to join us doesn’t mean you aren’t still special and number one in my book.
 
fishonjazz said:
Well I feel like the jazz don't always draft poorly. I think Rudy and Mitchell were pretty good picks for when we took them.
I also don't think that we don't ever draft for defense. I don't think we drafted Udoka because he is similar to Jokic or something. I feel like we drafted him for his defense more than his offense.
I mean much of his post was correct but he was also tryimg to be as negative as possible and go worst case scenario.
We actually had a pretty dang good team this past season imo. I don't think you can do EVERYTHING wrong constantly (like his post seemed to insinuate) and have the #1 seed and best record in the league, defensive player of the year, 3 all stars, 6th man of the year (and runner up), coach of the year candidate, and runner up for executive of the year. Plus I like our new owner and enjoyed the addition of Dwayne Wade.

But ya, what a crappy franchise that can't get anything right. Jazz just totally suck top to bottom and I'm sure everything they will do (or not do) this off season will be the worst thing ever.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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The Jazz have done very well. No question there. The post was intentionally and obviously mostly tongue-in-cheek, with at least a few parts fear that something like that might actually happen sprinkled in.

If there are two things that have been proven, IMO, it’s that DL can build a good team, but cannot build a great team. I will continue to assume Zanik is DL-lite until proven otherwise.

I’d just like our GM not to be taken advantage of on deals, not overpay for everything, and take a couple of calculated risks in an effort to turn things great. I’m not saying the roster sucks, that we need to trade Rudy, or even that we should’t pursue Conley.

I’m just saying it couldn’t be more obvious we should be shopping Bogey, Ingles, Clarkson, and our pick for some starter level perimeter defense. But we are likely “erring towards continuity,” which frankly, has started to feel a bit more like complacency and risk aversion when you do it every goddamned offseason. We are never willing to take any even remotely risky swings.

It is and will continue to be why we are a perennial playoff team but never a real title contender.

Look at the Suns — they’ve taken some calculated risks. Picking Ayton over Luka was definitely against the grain, but has worked out perfectly. Taking on an aging Paul on an elephantine contract was definitely a risk.

We don’t do stuff like that. You could argue the Conley deal was risky, but unless the pick we convey next year turns into an All-Star, we won that deal even if Conley leaves for nothing next month.
 
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Again the Donovan for Lillard trade makes zero sense for us unless Donovan wanted out and we had a sign-and-trade ready with Conley for a really nice piece. Otherwise Conley leaving and swapping Donovan for Lillard makes us considerably worse.
 
Hearsky said:
You are ridiculous. The FVF reference was tongue and cheek based on the Raptor ratings. You can cook data to support any argument. Lillard's post season stats were better than DM. Booker's regular season FG% stats were better than DM. See how that works?

Why wouldn't I throw praise at DL and DB? They are both exceptionally great players. Just like DM. It's not a mutually exclusive thing. I wouldn't trade DM for DL, but I can objectively say DL is currently a better player than DM. You act like anyone saying anything good about someone other than DM is a direct shot at you. Get over it.
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I was just talking about the argument at hand. Don vs Dame is debatable, but given their age and contract, it was a stupid suggestion to trade Don for Dame.

As for Booker, I just don't see any reason to think that Booker is better. The guy is a scorer and that's it. This postseason is the only winning of his career, and it's on the back of fantastic GM work adding Paul, Crowder and Craig. Put Don on that team, and they are in the playoffs before this year and running away with this title.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
The Jazz have done very well. No question there. The post was intentionally and obviously mostly tongue-in-cheek, with at least a few parts fear that something like that might actually happen sprinkled in.

If there are two things that have been proven, IMO, it’s that DL can build a good team, but cannot build a great team. I will continue to assume Zanik is DL-lite until proven otherwise.
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Locke said some things that lead me to believe they are different and JZ is more aggressive/active personality. Obviously we shall see. Problem is if he is aggressive they will have to be fairly big moves… we don’t have assets for the easy fringe moves anymore.

And I’m okay with small moves… if they are smart and exhibit a consistent plan… can’t tell you how many times in the last 12 months I’ve shrugged my shoulder assuming there was a plan because the moves are so wonky… then at the end I’m still trying to figure out what they were doing… then you just figure out there really wasn’t much of a plan… if there was it sucked.
 
LoPo said:
I was just talking about the argument at hand. Don vs Dame is debatable, but given their age and contract, it was a stupid suggestion to trade Don for Dame.

As for Booker, I just don't see any reason to think that Booker is better. The guy is a scorer and that's it. This postseason is the only winning of his career, and it's on the back of fantastic GM work adding Paul, Crowder and Craig. Put Don on that team, and they are in the playoffs before this year and running away with this title.
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All facts.
 
LoPo said:
I was just talking about the argument at hand. Don vs Dame is debatable, but given their age and contract, it was a stupid suggestion to trade Don for Dame.

As for Booker, I just don't see any reason to think that Booker is better. The guy is a scorer and that's it. This postseason is the only winning of his career, and it's on the back of fantastic GM work adding Paul, Crowder and Craig. Put Don on that team, and they are in the playoffs before this year and running away with this title.
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I really don't think Booker "is a scorer and that's it" is the argument road you don't want to go down. That was Shaq's awkward AF, but legitimate complaint about DM. DM and DB non scoring career stats are nearly identical. DL's non scoring sats are better than DM.
 
Hearsky said:
I don't think "facts" means what you think it does. "This postseason is the only winning of his career, and it's on the back of fantastic GM work adding Paul, Crowder and Craig. Put Don on that team, and they are in the playoffs before this year and running away with this title." is an OPINION. Feel free to google it.
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What was Booker's winning percentage without Paul, Crowder and Craig? I'll hang up and listen.
 
LoPo said:
What was Booker's winning percentage without Paul, Crowder and Craig? I'll hang up and listen.
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Never has been even .500 in his career before lol. Dude was the epitome of empty stats. Remember when he scored 70 and they lost by double digits lol.
 
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