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Jazz Offseason Plan

Ineptimusprime said:


Well, here it is. Woj and Lowe say Conley is likely coming back…but also, that the sense is the Jazz can’t afford to bring everyone back.

So yes, it sounds like the choice has been made to keep Conley over one of Ingles orBogey.
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“He loves their medical staff.”

Clearly DL is still Woj’s source here.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
So yes, it sounds like the choice has been made to keep Conley over one of Ingles orBogey.
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It's pretty stupid to me that we have to get rid of any of these three when we know that Ingles is likely retiring after the season. So instead of upsetting the fanbase and maybe even the stars, why can't we just "suck it up" for one year of big tax payments and truly take one big shot at it?

If we fail and have to shed money next summer, Favors and Bojan are expirings and much easier to deal. I'm very disappointed in the new ownership if we are simply cutting costs already when we seem so close to title contention.
 
LoPo said:
It's pretty stupid to me that we have to get rid of any of these three when we know that Ingles is likely retiring after the season. So instead of upsetting the fanbase and maybe even the stars, why can't we just "suck it up" for one year of big tax payments and truly take one big shot at it?

If we fail and have to shed money next summer, Favors and Bojan are expirings and much easier to deal. I'm very disappointed in the new ownership if we are simply cutting costs already when we seem so close to title contention.
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This may be why Ingles is being talked about as the one most likely to move. He is the one contenders want the most and this may be our last chance to get any sort of significant asset out of him. If we need to make another move, Bojan can be moved next deadline/offseason, as can Fav. Ingles could be moved at the deadline as an expiring, but he's likely to fetch a better return right now.

To me, to maximize our chances at title contention we need to do something a little bit different with minutes on the perimeter. Trading Ingles for an asset and picking up a usable player via FA is not going to materially affect our title chances. Honestly, as long as we have the Don, Mike, Rudy core surrounded by some semblance of a roster that makes sense around them, we will be a contending team.

And it's never as simple as "win-now." I am sure Ryan is trying to keep us in contention, while also preparing for the future (i.e., any potential major roster pivots we may need to make around Don to keep him around), while also looking at his own financial situation and the team's financial situation. It's a lot to balance. The dude just invested a lot of money into the Jazz. Do you really think he wants to turn around and cut another check for $40-$60 million right now when he can avoid that while also putting his own stamp on the team? I doubt it.

I too want Ingles around next year, but I'm not going to pretend that moving Ingles is going to materially affect our chances at a title next year so long as the player getting minutes in his place can do something better than Ingles (i.e. defending) even if overall it's a downgrade. It's still going to take health, some lucky bounces and the right matchups to win a title.

I guess what I'm saying is moving one member of the rotation to avoid tax and maybe pick-up a draft asset along the way is an okay way to balance winning now with a little bit of future planning. We'll still be a contender next year if one member of the rotation gets swapped out.
 
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Ineptimusprime said:
This may be why Ingles is being talked about as the one most likely to move. He is the one contenders want the most and this may be our last chance to get any sort of significant asset out of him. If we need to make another move, Bojan can be moved next deadline/offseason, as can Fav. Ingles could be moved at the deadline as an expiring, but he's likely to fetch a better return right now.

To me, to maximize our chances at title contention we need to do something a little bit different with minutes on the perimeter. Trading Ingles for an asset and picking up a usable player via FA is not going to materially affect our title chances. Honestly, as long as we have the Don, Mike, Rudy core surrounded by some semblance of a roster that makes sense around them, we will be a contending team.

And it's never as simple as "win-now." I am sure Ryan is trying to keep us in contention, while also preparing for the future (i.e., any potential major roster pivots we may need to make around Don to keep him around), while also looking at his own financial situation and the team's financial situation. It's a lot to balance. The dude just invested a lot of money into the Jazz. Do you really think he wants to turn around and cut another check for $40-$60 million right now when he can avoid that while also putting his own stamp on the team? I doubt it.

I too want Ingles around next year, but I'm not going to pretend that moving Ingles is going to materially affect our chances at a title next year so long as the player getting minutes in his place can do something better than Ingles (i.e. defending) even if overall it's a downgrade. It's still going to take health, some lucky bounces and the right matchups to win a title.

I guess what I'm saying is moving one member of the rotation to avoid tax and maybe pick-up a draft asset along the way is an okay way to balance winning now with a little bit of future planning. We'll still be a contender next year if one member of the rotation gets swapped out.
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Great post

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Ineptimusprime said:
This may be why Ingles is being talked about as the one most likely to move. He is the one contenders want the most and this may be our last chance to get any sort of significant asset out of him. If we need to make another move, Bojan can be moved next deadline/offseason, as can Fav. Ingles could be moved at the deadline as an expiring, but he's likely to fetch a better return right now.

To me, to maximize our chances at title contention we need to do something a little bit different with minutes on the perimeter. Trading Ingles for an asset and picking up a usable player via FA is not going to materially affect our title chances. Honestly, as long as we have the Don, Mike, Rudy core surrounded by some semblance of a roster that makes sense around them, we will be a contending team.

And it's never as simple as "win-now." I am sure Ryan is trying to keep us in contention, while also preparing for the future (i.e., any potential major roster pivots we may need to make around Don to keep him around), while also looking at his own financial situation and the team's financial situation. It's a lot to balance. The dude just invested a lot of money into the Jazz. Do you really think he wants to turn around and cut another check for $40-$60 million right now when he can avoid that while also putting his own stamp on the team? I doubt it.

I too want Ingles around next year, but I'm not going to pretend that moving Ingles is going to materially affect our chances at a title next year so long as the player getting minutes in his place can do something better than Ingles (i.e. defending) even if overall it's a downgrade. It's still going to take health, some lucky bounces and the right matchups to win a title.

I guess what I'm saying is moving one member of the rotation to avoid tax and maybe pick-up a draft asset along the way is an okay way to balance winning now with a little bit of future planning. We'll still be a contender next year if one member of the rotation gets swapped out.
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You make a lot of sense here, but I still can't wrap my head around the thought process for trading Joe.

to save money?
to get a player or asset who likely won't replace what Joe does on and off the court?
when 99% of fans absolutely love Joe?
when our wings are so thin?
when Joe is effectively our 2nd best PG?
when Mike is so injury prone?
when Bojan and Favors might just be dumped next year to save more money?
why not just trade Bojan this summer and let Joe retire a Jazz man next summer?
to just get anything for Joe instead of losing him for nothing?
to save money?

This whole idea sets an amazingly bad tone for the start of Ryan's tenure. Worst yet, without Joe, Rudy and Don might not have a mediator when things get rough.
 
infection said:
“He loves their medical staff.”

Clearly DL is still Woj’s source here.
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Yeah JZ gonna have to fight to get in Wojs good side… we will know when it changes because the focus will turn to the fact that they need to dump Favs salary because “at the time when they signed him the leadership believes he could be more than just a backup 5 and that isn’t the case”… something like that.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
The Knox deal proposal sucks for us.

And please, for the love of Xenu, here’s a new rule — if you are referencing something posted elsewhere on the internet, can everyone please post the link!
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Well there is a case to be made for the trade… here it is…

We want to get a more versatile wing in even if that wing isn’t as good a shooter as Bogey… so would Batum or Gay take the taxpayer MLE from us if they are a bench player? Maybe? But that spendy is justified if the player is getting more than just Niang minutes… and the role is now more enticing imo. The picks help restock the cupboards and give us some upside potential… the savings help keep things together.

One other note: we’d get a decent trade exception in that case… would let us go into the season and see if anything nifty comes up.

I am not a believer in Knox… I’m fine with keeping him I guess but I think you could spin him off to OKC for Williams or Roby… saves a little more dough and you get a more ready player. If you have Gay/Batum in Bojan spot… save some money… and get some young players that can either be assets or pieces that grow into replacements for Joe and Mike then it’s not nearly as poopy.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Well there is a case to be made for the trade… here it is…

We want to get a more versatile wing in even if that wing isn’t as good a shooter as Bogey… so would Batum or Gay take the taxpayer MLE from us if they are a bench player? Maybe? But that spendy is justified if the player is getting more than just Niang minutes… and the role is now more enticing imo. The picks help restock the cupboards and give us some upside potential… the savings help keep things together.

One other note: we’d get a decent trade exception in that case… would let us go into the season and see if anything nifty comes up.

I am not a believer in Knox… I’m fine with keeping him I guess but I think you could spin him off to OKC for Williams or Roby… saves a little more dough and you get a more ready player. If you have Gay/Batum in Bojan spot… save some money… and get some young players that can either be assets or pieces that grow into replacements for Joe and Mike then it’s not nearly as poopy.
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Great post.

Bojan for Knox, #19 and #32
- We save $12+ million in salaries

Use #30 or #32 to dump Favors (sucks but saves a ton of money)
- We save $10 million in salaries

Try to flip Knox to a rebuilding team who likes him
- We save $4 million in salaries

Then sign Batum to start at PF (wishful thinking but maybe he takes a little less money since he'll be a starter)
- We add $5.9 in salaries

In a perfect world, we lose Bojan and Favors, but we gain Batum and #19. And overall, we save around $20 million in salaries.
 
Part of me doesn't want us to get a pick in the early 20s late teens... I don't want to yell at the TV in disappointment when we pass on Butler. If he's off the board it hurts less.
 
The dream would be to do the Bogey trade and have Duarte fall to 19. That way you're at least getting a pretty safe two-way rotation player in exchange for Bogey.
 
LoPo said:
Great post.

Bojan for Knox, #19 and #32
- We save $12+ million in salaries

Use #30 or #32 to dump Favors (sucks but saves a ton of money)
- We save $10 million in salaries

Try to flip Knox to a rebuilding team who likes him
- We save $4 million in salaries

Then sign Batum to start at PF (wishful thinking but maybe he takes a little less money since he'll be a starter)
- We add $5.9 in salaries

In a perfect world, we lose Bojan and Favors, but we gain Batum and #19. And overall, we save around $20 million in salaries.
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It would open up a lot of possibilities. I think if you drop that much salary you can stomach the Favs deal if you can't move it without attaching picks. It would also open up like a JC for Kuzma and #22 deal if you didn't think you could get a FA combo forward. Send Favs/Knox/#30 to OKC for Williams and Roby... draft 19/22 and nail one of the picks... I think #30 is plenty of draft capital to send out with Favs deal if you really felt you needed to clear it.

There would need to be some follow up deals so it didn't look like you were tearing it down... but it could open up some **** for us.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The dream would be to do the Bogey trade and have Duarte fall to 19. That way you're at least getting a pretty safe two-way rotation player in exchange for Bogey.
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Virtually every mock I’ve seen has Duarte still on the board around there unless this has dramatically changed in the last week.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Virtually every mock I’ve seen has Duarte still on the board around there unless this has dramatically changed in the last week.
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Oh he will go either 14th to GS or 17th to Grizzlies (based on the rumors). There is a chance he's there at 19 but I'd say its less than 50%.
 
LoPo said:
Great post.

Bojan for Knox, #19 and #32
- We save $12+ million in salaries

Use #30 or #32 to dump Favors (sucks but saves a ton of money)
- We save $10 million in salaries

Try to flip Knox to a rebuilding team who likes him
- We save $4 million in salaries

Then sign Batum to start at PF (wishful thinking but maybe he takes a little less money since he'll be a starter)
- We add $5.9 in salaries

In a perfect world, we lose Bojan and Favors, but we gain Batum and #19. And overall, we save around $20 million in salaries.
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If you put it all into one deal... so Bojan to NY, Knox to OKC, Utah gets 19, 32, and Williams from OKC... then the trade exception gets bigger and could be pretty useful. I hope if we pinch pennis on Bogey we don't give up value to drop Favs too. You'd have an 18.7M trade exception to play around with. You can wait until people see they need a center after FA and make maybe a better move to drop Favs... then you could hunt at the trade deadline with a big trade exception to make any kind of deal work. Most likely it goes unused but you have the ability to make a medium sized deal if something good comes up.

A lot of folks wouldn't want to hear it here... but you could also match a reasonable offer on Niang (under 5M) if you wanted to.
 
I think DeRozan might be the guy the Lakers swipe... either for MLE or in a sign and trade. I think it is part of the reason they are really trying to move some salary to clear enough room under the apron to use the full MLE or complete a sign and trade.
 
KqWIN said:
I’ve long thought that moving Bogey for a pick was the best way to cut salary. Hopefully the Jazz do that instead of dumping 30 to off Favors.
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I think the NY deal makes a lot of sense for both parties... they have more space than they can use responsibly. Bojan fits a big need for them. Helps them be more more appealing (maybe slightly) for vet free agents.

It also clears more salary for next year and opens up a lot of maneuvers. If they nailed the follow up moves we could replace his production and add some flexibility and young talent that we desperately need.
 
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