Mike Elliott (Head of Medical) Leaves Utah Over Mitchell Dispute

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I did not realize the mom's on facebook filled out the injury reports.

Its very different. The medical field is wild. I don't think Donovan was sitting there thinking... " you know I can use this injury to get more power in the organization... lets get that Elliot guy out of here". I think he disagreed with the assessment and treatment program and brought in his own professionals. While he ended up hobbled in the end it may have been that he was never going to be 100% this season... if he sits the whole post season out is that the right approach?

These calls are tough... I think it was a combo of a player being a bit less trusting that he could have been but I also think the trainer/doctor had his ego bruised by a player going somewhere else for an opinion/treatment.

My mother had Leukemia when I was young. During a pregnancy with my sister after she had recovered she was having shortness of breathe issues for months. Her very well respected doctor brushed it off even though she came to him multiple times with the concern. Said she was a "nervous mother". She had a LONG medical history that should have required further investigation. The day she gave birth she went into cardiac arrest because the treatments she received when she had cancer had weakened her heart and it was failing and had been struggling for months. She was in the ICU on a ventilator for a week. Eventually she recovered but her life was cut short several year later. The doctor flat out missed... got lazy. I was the only one at home taking care of my other sister while both parents were at the hospital... the doctor called me several times a day for updates during that time. He knew he missed he got lazy... he was a good doctor. We should have got a second opinion. Medical practice is hard... we can guess what happened but this is likely a scenario where player and team doctor both have some share in the blame.

I'm not sure if Mitchell is the one explicitly thinking about the power structure, but I bet you anything his agent/team are using that approach whenever they can.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The training staff, because the training staff makes the reports lmao. This isn't even debatable in my mind. How can you have power to sit someone out, but not enough power to even list a players as "probable"? No power to tell Quin or any of the players that Mitchell wasn't a 100% go either? I guess Mitchell put pressure on them to not say anything until the most inopportune time possible. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

OK, so you are a member of the medical staff.

Do you want a job next year? Do you listen to your team leader (Elliott) who you know is going to be on the hot seat because of his willingness to go against Mitchell's desires, or are you going to go for job security and appease the star's wishes? You have to understand this **** can get political and not everyone on a medical staff is going to be on the same political team. People are going to look after their own careers and do what they think is in their best interest. Elliott clearly is highly respected. He knows he can get a job elsewhere. He can probably get damn near any professional sports job he wants. Jazz let one of the best in the business go over some BS. Really sucks we let someone go who wasnt scared to stand up to the pressure a star like Donovan can put on someone. I'm sure the Jazz will get someone good, but will they ultimately just be a yes man?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Sure, but like I said earlier in a response, I'm guessing it because he had a lot of support from a guy like Snyder. The entire Jazz FO last year was on thin ice. It probably felt like give into Mitchell or risk being fired/forced out of a job the following year. Snyder the only guy who really has job security so I'm guessing he was the voice that let Elliott have his way for Game 1.

*of course this is all speculation*

Right its all speculation and that's why I'm handing out blame pie to both sides... the issue is if there is blame to be handed out you don't want to be the head trainer... you want to be the star player. Star players are much harder to find even though it seems Mike was very good at his job. It sucks it had to come down to this but after the blow up I saw no other way around it.

 

[KqWIN]

OK, so you are a member of the medical staff.

Do you want a job next year? Do you listen to your team leader (Elliott) who you know is going to be on the hot seat because of his willingness to go against Mitchell's desires, or are you going to go for job security and appease the star's wishes?

You do realize that they sat out Mitchell right? There is no world were I don't have the balls to list him on the injury report but also sit him out without warning him, the coaches, or the players.

 

[KqWIN]

Its also a scenario where Donovan may know its never going to be perfect so its time to go even if it is not going to be great.

Even if its just Donovan's team that clears him Mike can still put him on the report... can still tell management that he won't clear him if he doesn't feel great about it... the players can plan appropriately. If he's in the dark and has the final call he can always say "not so fast guys". The messaging after was that everyone was blindsided.

Yeah, there's zero excuses for having the team blindsided. If Mitchell had his sister hack into the Jazz twitter account and tweet out the injury report without him on it, the team still should have known.

It's not just Mitchell who is pissed about that, it's the whole team.

 

[MT Steve]

Elliott was proven right almost immediately and it probably led to Mitchell having a diminished off-season in terms of ability to train at 100%.

I mean, what was the alternative? Sitting Mitchell the whole playoffs so that it wouldn't diminish his off-season?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Right its all speculation and that's why I'm handing out blame pie to both sides... the issue is if there is blame to be handed out you don't want to be the head trainer... you want to be the star player. Star players are much harder to find even though it seems Mike was very good at his job. It sucks it had to come down to this but after the blow up I saw no other way around it.

Yeah like I said, I get it's part of the price to have a guy like Donovan. Wish it wasnt. I think it's a big reason why the Spurs were so good because they never had a guy who forced those compromises. I accept it though.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean, what was the alternative? Sitting Mitchell the whole playoffs so that it wouldn't diminish his off-season?

Sit Mitchell for the Grizzlies series until they went down 2 games. I think the game 1 loss was pretty flukey. I think the Jazz could have won the series without Mitchell personally.

 

[LogGrad98]

Who can Ryan get from BYU to fill this spot?


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I have a friend who went to BYU who is a chiropractor and a jazz fan. I bet he'd do it

 

[MT Steve]

Sit Mitchell for the Grizzlies series until they went down 2 games. I think the game 1 loss was pretty flukey. I think the Jazz could have won the series without Mitchell personally.

I'm not sure honestly. I imagine Conley's hamstring would've still gone out, especially with the heavier load. I also don't think we would've won both games in Memphis.

 

[NAOS]

Its also a scenario where Donovan may know its never going to be perfect so its time to go even if it is not going to be great.

Even if its just Donovan's team that clears him Mike can still put him on the report... can still tell management that he won't clear him if he doesn't feel great about it... the players can plan appropriately. If he's in the dark and has the final call he can always say "not so fast guys". The messaging after was that everyone was blindsided.

This

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah like I said, I get it's part of the price to have a guy like Donovan. Wish it wasnt. I think it's a big reason why the Spurs were so good because they never had a guy who forced those compromises. I accept it though.

Tim was a once in a generation guy. Manu and Tony fell in line perfectly too. Can you imagine how much social media stink would happen if a guy like Manu wasn't starting... even though its the smart move. I just don't see getting two of those types of egoless star talents on the same team again.

Rudy has some of those qualities but I think he can struggle too when not getting touches. He might be as close as we get.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm not sure honestly. I imagine Conley's hamstring would've still gone out, especially with the heavier load. I also don't think we would've won both games in Memphis.

Yeah, I think Conley's hamstring was probably ****ed either way. I think it was a ticking time bomb that was going out. Best case would have been to win the series without Mitchell, Conley gets hurt at some point in the series, but the Jazz still close it out. Mitchell goes into the Clippers series healthy and is able to carry Utah.

I get that is probably unrealistic. Mitchell's ankle probably still would have been compromised regardless. *Also I think it's more of a foot injury than ankle but Utah is covering it up*

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This

Also medical professionals don't have much motivation to be aggressive on this stuff. I remember my neck was giving me problems and the doc asked how I got hurt. I said playing basketball. They weren't willing to do an MRI but they said I could go to PT and that I should stop playing basketball for 6-9 months and then come back and check in. I did PT for a few weeks but there was no way I was just going to sit out for 6-9 months without any kind of diagnosis.

The best doc I had was one that treated by broken/dislocated finger. He said he wouldn't do surgery unless the had too... said there was some ligament damage. Asked if I could still play... he said "if I tell you no are you going to listen?" we both laughed. He gave me tips on immobilizing it and said I was more likely to re-injure playing with the kids with it not wrapped then wrapping it up and playing. He got it.

 

[homeytennis]

What are Elliot's credentials? MD, physical therapist, athletic trainer, chiro or barista from Starbucks?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, I think Conley's hamstring was probably ****ed either way. I think it was a ticking time bomb that was going out. Best case would have been to win the series without Mitchell, Conley gets hurt at some point in the series, but the Jazz still close it out. Mitchell goes into the Clippers series healthy and is able to carry Utah.

I get that is probably unrealistic. Mitchell's ankle probably still would have been compromised regardless. *Also I think it's more of a foot injury than ankle but Utah is covering it up*

I actually think the second part might have been why Donovan was originally unhappy. I think they may have misdiagnosed it originally. Again... as you know... total guess. It also may have been jammed/dislocated and not just a sprain.

It all sucks... the hamstring... the ankle... it sucks. Pray we can manage this and be healthy this year.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I actually think the second part might have been why Donovan was originally unhappy. I think they may have misdiagnosed it originally. Again... as you know... total guess. It also may have been jammed/dislocated and not just a sprain.

It all sucks... the hamstring... the ankle... it sucks. Pray we can manage this and be healthy this year.

Teams underreport things all the time at the behest of the player's management (see the thing with Zion recently). A history of foot injuries makes your value drop way more than some sprained ankles. Mitchell probably got frustrated with it because it made him look soft for sitting so long with just an "ankle" injury.

Again, speculation, but knowing what he know about Donovan and how obsessed he is with his brand, I would bet on it.

 

[SteakNEggs]

They didnt blindside the team man. Mitchell got himself cleared through his own medical team that leaked it to the media over the chain of command for clearing that stuff.

I'm not @oneye, but this is Mitchell being extremely power hungry. Elliott was proven right almost immediately and it probably led to Mitchell having a diminished off-season in terms of ability to train at 100%.

I don’t agree with Cy much but he’s spot on here.

 

[enchilada_style]

Juicy


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[NUMBERICA]

I don’t agree with Cy much but he’s spot on here.

Nah. Edging into oneye territory.

There's no valid reason for how the playoffs were handled. They clearly had no actual plan on how to proceed or the stones to see it through, and then compounded the issue by not being transparent with the team, let alone the media/official reports.

The circus of how it played out was inexcusable. I still don't see the utility of sitting Mitchell in playoffs at all. Either Mitchell's injury was serious enough to shut him down for the season, or he could've toughed it out a game earlier. I really think the idea of contextually sitting him *some* games on a team with no depth and wear/injury issues with players that could pick up the slack was silly.