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Alec Baldwin shoots and kills one, injures another.

RandyForRubio said:
Any semblance of proper gun safety would have prevented this.

Any time I am handed a gun, I ask whether it is loaded or not…and no matter the answer, I check for myself. Every. Single. Time. I double and triple check guns I’ve handled. This is absolutely an inexcusable accident.
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You are probably a well educated gun owner rather than an actor though.
I mean if I'm gun ignorant and an actor and someone gives me a gun on set (like has happened in many previous movies I was in) and the director tells me to aim the gun at the bad guy in the movie and shoot him with the fake bullets from the fake (prop) gun then maybe I just do what the director says (like in all the other movies I have done) with no worry about safety since I'm under the assumption that I'm just making a movie with a prop gun that fires blanks only.
 
fishonjazz said:
You are probably a well educated gun owner rather than an actor though.
I mean if I'm gun ignorant and an actor and someone gives me a gun on set (like has happened in many previous movies I was in) and the director tells me to aim the gun at the bad guy in the movie and shoot him with the fake bullets from the fake (prop) gun then maybe I just do what the director says (like in all the other movies I have done) with no worry about safety since I'm under the assumption that I'm just making a movie with a prop gun that fires blanks only.
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From everything that I have read and understood recently about how this process works in Hollywood, the armored clears it, yells out “cold gun”, then the AD takes it, checks it, again with the “cold gun”, and then the actor takes it, checks it, proceeds.

Alec Baldwin has acted in movies with guns before. These professionals take it very seriously. I mean, how many movies with guns do we have every year? A LOT! And how many deaths have we had in all those movies…3? That’s not a lot. Primarily because people do their job.

And how did this unqualified girl get her job as an armorer? Was it because of her dad? Because they had diversity quotas they had to meet? Just stinking hire the people that are qualified, doesn’t matter what gender or sexuality they are.

And yeah, Baldwin is an actor. He probably doesn’t know a lot about guns. Talks about them a lot. You’d think somebody who is going to talk that much about guns would know the basic rules of how to handle them. I know for a fact that they have safety classes on set to make sure those who are handling know what they’re supposed to do. Somebody died because this prick didn’t do his job right.
 
fishonjazz said:
You are probably a well educated gun owner rather than an actor though.
I mean if I'm gun ignorant and an actor and someone gives me a gun on set (like has happened in many previous movies I was in) and the director tells me to aim the gun at the bad guy in the movie and shoot him with the fake bullets from the fake (prop) gun then maybe I just do what the director says (like in all the other movies I have done) with no worry about safety since I'm under the assumption that I'm just making a movie with a prop gun that fires blanks only.
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Additionally Fish, from what I’ve read, these actors very, very, rarely actually point their guns at people while filming. It’s highly discouraged. Everything I’ve read says they’re all told to act like the gun is loaded.

Also, the gun used was an old Colt style pistol, which means you’d have to **** the hammer for it to fire. Baldwin really doesn’t have any legitimate excuse. He screwed up. It’s incredibly unfortunate, I feel bad for him, but anybody trying to take blame away from him is mistaken (I’m not trying to say you’re doing that either).
 
fishonjazz said:
You are probably a well educated gun owner rather than an actor though.
I mean if I'm gun ignorant and an actor and someone gives me a gun on set (like has happened in many previous movies I was in) and the director tells me to aim the gun at the bad guy in the movie and shoot him with the fake bullets from the fake (prop) gun then maybe I just do what the director says (like in all the other movies I have done) with no worry about safety since I'm under the assumption that I'm just making a movie with a prop gun that fires blanks only.
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This is very true. That is exactly what you do. That is why this is on the director and the armorer. The armorer should probably do jail time. That is the point of the most negligence. Unless you are messing around and pick up some random gun from the prop desk and start firing it not knowing what the status is, then it should be on the actor as well.
 
fishonjazz said:
You are probably a well educated gun owner rather than an actor though.
I mean if I'm gun ignorant and an actor and someone gives me a gun on set (like has happened in many previous movies I was in) and the director tells me to aim the gun at the bad guy in the movie and shoot him with the fake bullets from the fake (prop) gun then maybe I just do what the director says (like in all the other movies I have done) with no worry about safety since I'm under the assumption that I'm just making a movie with a prop gun that fires blanks only.
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What kind of movies were you in? Do they require me to acknowledge that I'm at least 18 years old in the state of Utah to watch?
 
Avery said:
What kind of movies were you in? Do they require me to acknowledge that I'm at least 18 years old in the state of Utah to watch?
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His kind of movies you have to get permission from a federal judge or move to guatamala.
 
RandyForRubio said:
From everything that I have read and understood recently about how this process works in Hollywood, the armored clears it, yells out “cold gun”, then the AD takes it, checks it, again with the “cold gun”, and then the actor takes it, checks it, proceeds.

Alec Baldwin has acted in movies with guns before. These professionals take it very seriously. I mean, how many movies with guns do we have every year? A LOT! And how many deaths have we had in all those movies…3? That’s not a lot. Primarily because people do their job.

And how did this unqualified girl get her job as an armorer? Was it because of her dad? Because they had diversity quotas they had to meet? Just stinking hire the people that are qualified, doesn’t matter what gender or sexuality they are.

And yeah, Baldwin is an actor. He probably doesn’t know a lot about guns. Talks about them a lot. You’d think somebody who is going to talk that much about guns would know the basic rules of how to handle them. I know for a fact that they have safety classes on set to make sure those who are handling know what they’re supposed to do. Somebody died because this prick didn’t do his job right.
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Exactly. And a cold gun is just that, no ammo, live or blank. Blanks can still be dangerous, and should not be pointed at people. The proper procedure when pointing a gun, even a cold gun, is to have plexiglass in place to protect the film crew. Lots of corners cut on this one.
 
Lots people I know seem to be ******** on Baldwin for this because of his past comments due to gun/police violence.

It's not even close to the same thing. He has to live with other's negligence for the rest of his life. The Amorer ****ed up big time and, obviously, wasn't ready to follow her dad's footsteps.

I'm not a fan of Baldwin (don't hate him, just don't care for him,) but this **** up isn't on him. However, unfortunately, it is because of his name, being an actor and well, acting.

Oof... can you imagine being that guy right now?

RIP the cinematographer and I hope the gal that was wounded makes a full recovery.

Baldwin will never be the same - all due to some "professional's" massive **** up and failure.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
Exactly. And a cold gun is just that, no ammo, live or blank. Blanks can still be dangerous, and should not be pointed at people. The proper procedure when pointing a gun, even a cold gun, is to have plexiglass in place to protect the film crew. Lots of corners cut on this one.
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He's an actor. Professionals above him ****ed up, not him. 100%.

He gets to live with the blame from people like you.
 
Archie Moses said:
Lots people I know seem to be ******** on Baldwin for this because of his past comments due to gun/police violence.

It's not even close to the same thing. He has to live with other's negligence for the rest of his life. The Amorer ****ed up big time and, obviously, wasn't ready to follow her dad's footsteps.

I'm not a fan of Baldwin (don't hate him, just don't care for him,) but this **** up isn't on him. However, unfortunately, it is because of his name, being an actor and well, acting.

Oof... can you imagine being that guy right now?

RIP the cinematographer and I hope the gal that was wounded makes a full recovery.

Baldwin will never be the same - all due to some "professional's" massive **** up and failure.
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It absolutely lies on Baldwin as well.

Read up on proper protocol of how this is supposed to go down, from armorer, to assistant director, to actor. They are all supposed to check. Baldwin has done movies with guns before, you really think he doesn’t know protocol? And he’s one of the producers that decided to cheap out, which is why the actual professionals decided not to be a part of this because they deemed it unsafe.

Yeah, I feel bad that for the rest of his life, Baldwin will have to live with the fact that he accidentally killed somebody. That is going to be an awful feeling. But there is no denying that he is also at fault here due to negligence. Him making prior comments about cops saying “I wonder how it feels to unknowingly kill someone.” Or his comment about Liz Cheney sounding just like her dad and wondering if she’s ever accidentally shot somebody in the face…those comment are just very unfortunate irony.
 
RandyForRubio said:
It absolutely lies on Baldwin as well.

Read up on proper protocol of how this is supposed to go down, from armorer, to assistant director, to actor. They are all supposed to check. Baldwin has done movies with guns before, you really think he doesn’t know protocol? And he’s one of the producers that decided to cheap out, which is why the actual professionals decided not to be a part of this because they deemed it unsafe.

Yeah, I feel bad that for the rest of his life, Baldwin will have to live with the fact that he accidentally killed somebody. That is going to be an awful feeling. But there is no denying that he is also at fault here due to negligence. Him making prior comments about cops saying “I wonder how it feels to unknowingly kill someone.” Or his comment about Liz Cheney sounding just like her dad and wondering if she’s ever accidentally shot somebody in the face…those comment are just very unfortunate irony.
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Eh, it's not so awful.


Wait you said accidentally. Nevermind. Carry on.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
He was the producer that hired the armorer. Blame will come from the deceased's family.
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Of course.

It's like if I hired someone to cement my driveway and they accidentally buried someone with cement, is it my fault?

Baldwin kind of bugs me, but he hired people or people on set ****ed up - not him. 100%

Don't point blame at him.
 
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RandyForRubio said:
It absolutely lies on Baldwin as well.

Read up on proper protocol of how this is supposed to go down, from armorer, to assistant director, to actor. They are all supposed to check. Baldwin has done movies with guns before, you really think he doesn’t know protocol? And he’s one of the producers that decided to cheap out, which is why the actual professionals decided not to be a part of this because they deemed it unsafe.

Yeah, I feel bad that for the rest of his life, Baldwin will have to live with the fact that he accidentally killed somebody. That is going to be an awful feeling. But there is no denying that he is also at fault here due to negligence. Him making prior comments about cops saying “I wonder how it feels to unknowingly kill someone.” Or his comment about Liz Cheney sounding just like her dad and wondering if she’s ever accidentally shot somebody in the face…those comment are just very unfortunate irony.
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This is dumb. I have.

It wasn't Baldwin's job.
 
Archie Moses said:
Of course.

It's like if I hired someone to cement my driveway and they accidentally buried someone with cement, is it my fault?

Baldwin kind of bugs me, but he hired people or people on set ****ed up - not him. 100%

Don't point blame at him.
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It could be your fault if you hired an incompetent person and knew they were reckless with lack of due care, although criminal liability would be harder to stick, but still possible depending on the state. Which is why cutting corners and hiring an uninsured contractor can bite you in the butt if they or someone else gets injured while they are performing work.

I doubt Baldwin will be charged criminally, even though you could argue he was reckless or did not exercise due caution, which in New Mexico can be enough for involuntary manslaughter and all the stories coming from crewmembers (which may or may not be accurate) make it seem like it was a ********, and Baldwin was the producer in charge. I do believe the people target shooting and leaving bullets in the are more to blame. But questions arise. Did Baldwin know they were target shooting with that gun? Did the armorer? And with that knowledge did he pull the trigger without checking it? It would be up to the prosecutor or grand jury to decide if charges are brought and against who.

I actually like Baldwin as an actor, and have no animosity towards him. Even if he was reckless to the point of legal cupability, I still feel bad for they guy either way. Ultimately, he pulled the trigger which killed a mother with young kids. I don't know how I could handle that, even if you want to call it an "accident".

More than likely Baldwin will be sued in civil court, and the film insurance will settle with the family.
 
Archie Moses said:
This is dumb. I have.

It wasn't Baldwin's job.
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Plenty of cases where company officers have been charged criminally for implementing unsafe practices that harm or kill employees, both for manslaughter, and negligent homicide. Baldwin was the producer in charge of the set.
 
Archie Moses said:
Of course.

It's like if I hired someone to cement my driveway and they accidentally buried someone with cement, is it my fault?

Baldwin kind of bugs me, but he hired people or people on set ****ed up - not him. 100%

Don't point blame at him.
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Baldwin did not follow protocol by checking if the gun was "cold" and he pointed the gun in an unsafe direction and pulled the trigger and killed a person. He is not blameless.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
It is unclear if Baldwin is the producer or just an executive producer, which many actors get the title for prestige, but don't have much if any control over the set. If he was the producer, and he let all of this occur, at a minimum, he should be financially liable, although I'm sure they have insurance on set.
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www.hollywoodreporter.com

‘Rust’ Tragedy: Was an Inexperienced Producing Team to Blame?

With questions swirling around the deadly shooting on the Alec Baldwin indie Western, a closer look behind the scenes reveals that the film was led by a ragtag group of six men who have produced only nine movies combined. "Everything about it screams amateurish."
www.hollywoodreporter.com www.hollywoodreporter.com

“As with any film, the buck stops with the producers. They are the men and women in charge of hiring and to whom crewmembers can take complaints. What’s notable about Rust is that it featured a hodgepodge group with little to no experience in that capacity. Baldwin, who discharged the prop gun that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Oct. 21, was one of the film’s six producers. (On a narrative feature film, “producer” is the top distinction, while “executive producer” is the next rung down. The opposite is true in TV and with documentaries.) Sources involved with the production say it wasn’t merely a vanity title, as is often the case with name actors and actresses, and that Baldwin had developed the project from scratch with Souza and shares “story by” credit. Still, it marked only the fifth time Baldwin has served as a producer on a narrative feature film during his 41-year acting career (Souza’s 2019 drama Crown Vic being his most recent outing)”.

swiftheadline.com

Alec Baldwin's role as producer on 'Rust,' explained - swiftheadline

Being a film producer can mean different things to different people. And when a star like Alec Baldwin takes a producer credit on a film, it can signal a variety of levels of involvement in the project itself. While a film producer performs many tasks through the life of a film — from its...
swiftheadline.com swiftheadline.com
 
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