Trade deadline discussion

[SoberasHotRod]

Obviously you make a great point, I mean I was astounded when I looked at defensive ratings. But with load management and age and that trick hammy he will miss games. And when that happens we suffer. Maybe now is the time to get off him when his price is high.
I mean I’m fine with Grant but would prefer a Shai Gilgeous Alexander Lou Dort combination or something similar to fill the void left by Conley but with some size.

Do you think OKC is going to give up SGA and Dort for Conley? I guess maybe you are referring to a hypothetical scenario?

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

Do you think OKC is going to give up SGA and Dort for Conley? I guess maybe you are referring to a hypothetical scenario?

Just threw it out there. Hypothetical, the numbers don’t line up and Alexander probably has a no trade clause or something. San Antonio could use a vet and I’d be all over Murray and White. As ridiculous as it may sound to some folks, Conley for Simmons probably makes the most sense for both parties.

 

[LogGrad98]

It's unpopular, but I would trade Conley. He's having a good year right now and is healthy so his value is high. In the playoffs, we will again have issues with Don, Mike and our lack of other good perimeter defenders.

Jerami Grant to Utah
Simmons to Detroit
Conley, Olynyk, and Detroit picks to Philly

Maybe we add Cory Joseph to the deal too if Detroit doesn't want him.



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I don't think that's unpopular at all. Many of us would welcome a Conley trade. I just don't think there's any way to get equal value considering the size of his contract. We overpayed to keep a good guard that just does not give us what we need. Plus he's a good guy, so they won't look at moving him.

 

[LoPo]

This year we have won 0 games without Mike. Our offense without Mike has been very dependent on Mitchell heroics. Ingles has mostly looked old. Butler hasn't shown anything yet.

I really wish we could be less reliant of Conley at this point, but the fact is we can't let him go.

It's also worth mentioning that Conley has been our best perimeter defender this year.

Last year, we won almost every game without Mike. It's regular season basketball.

The true test is playoff basketball. I don't have faith in Rudy, Don, and Mike with anybody else on our roster having what it takes to go the distance. Those three create a massive dilemma covering the perimeter adequately enough.

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[Isaiah 1:13]

The true test is playoff basketball. I don't have faith in Rudy, Don, and Mike with anybody else on our roster having what it takes to go the distance. Those three create a massive dilemma covering the perimeter adequately enough.

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i agree that a tandem of 6 foot nothing guards is generally not a winning formula in today’s NBA.

 

[jom2003]

Obviously you make a great point, I mean I was astounded when I looked at defensive ratings. But with load management and age and that trick hammy he will miss games. And when that happens we suffer. Maybe now is the time to get off him when his price is high.
I mean I’m fine with Grant but would prefer a Shai Gilgeous Alexander Lou Dort combination or something similar to fill the void left by Conley but with some size. Conley for Simmons works - we’d be a defensive juggernaut!

Malcom Brogdon

 

[LogGrad98]

Malcom Brogdon

Which is who we should have pursued instead of Conley in the first place.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ehhh … Mike is really good. Look this team is a second round exit unless they are 100% healthy and Don goes nuclear. Hope Rudy is a little more effective and just hope you get a little luck. If a JC for Marcus Smart trade comes along then maybe I can change my opinion but even then there is nothing that pushes us from fringy contender to favorite or even co favorite.

This team is fun… the window is now… but the window is barely even cracked open. I’m just gonna enjoy it and pretend we are a plucky under dog.

With regard to Jerami Grant… I like him and all but I think he’s super overrated out here. I’m not even sure he’d be an upgrade over Bogey… but Bogey might be our most underutilized offensive weapon. Grant is theoretically what we need but in reality I’m not sure he’s the defensive stopper/force folks think he is here… once guys start putting up big numbers on offense the defensive dirty work becomes super unappealing and it doesn’t just come back.

 

[infection]

Here's the trade:

Move Hughes and Udoka anywhere and for anything (besides salary).
Sign Dunn. Sign Johnson.
Waive Oni.

You've now made some shrewd and underrated basketball moves and you've also made some really good financial decisions.

Then watch Quin not use either guy and we flame out in the same fashion. At least your tax bill is lower.

 

[jom2003]

Ehhh … Mike is really good. Look this team is a second round exit unless they are 100% healthy and Don goes nuclear. Hope Rudy is a little more effective and just hope you get a little luck. If a JC for Marcus Smart trade comes along then maybe I can change my opinion but even then there is nothing that pushes us from fringy contender to favorite or even co favorite.

This team is fun… the window is now… but the window is barely even cracked open. I’m just gonna enjoy it and pretend we are a plucky under dog.

With regard to Jerami Grant… I like him and all but I think he’s super overrated out here. I’m not even sure he’d be an upgrade over Bogey… but Bogey might be our most underutilized offensive weapon. Grant is theoretically what we need but in reality I’m not sure he’s the defensive stopper/force folks think he is here… once guys start putting up big numbers on offense the defensive dirty work becomes super unappealing and it doesn’t just come back.

Grants’s D on kawhi was one of the main factors to nuggets coming from 1-3 down to winning that LAC series. He plays a much bigger role on offense now for Detroit but when he's focused on D we know he's capable. Very much like Barnes, may not be as offensively polished as Bogey, but they are more well rounded as players and can give us different looks when needed

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The defensive weak link in our starting guard rotation is not Mike Conley. I guess it could be argued that because Donovan is such a poor defender we need someone who is capable of making up the difference. That guy certainly isn't Brogdon who is probably a worse defender than Conley.
If we are going to be a significantly better team defensively, then Donovan has to step up.

 

[infection]

The defensive weak link in our starting guard rotation is not Mike Conley. I guess it could be argued that because Donovan is such a poor defender we need someone who is capable of making up the difference. That guy certainly isn't Brogdon who is probably a worse defender than Conley.
If we are going to be a significantly better team defensively, then Donovan has to step up.

Pretty crazy because he came out of college as a supposed defensive guy. And we talk about him being more aware and not taking plays off when he’s off-ball, but he can’t stay in front of anyone just as bad as anyone else on the team, which makes me think that not staying in front of people physically is only part of the equation with this team and there’s no accountability to the point where it’s impacted what appears to be people’s physical abilities.

 

[Jingled]

The defensive weak link in our starting guard rotation is not Mike Conley. I guess it could be argued that because Donovan is such a poor defender we need someone who is capable of making up the difference. That guy certainly isn't Brogdon who is probably a worse defender than Conley.
If we are going to be a significantly better team defensively, then Donovan has to step up.

Conley is actually one of our best perimeter defenders. He's still really quick for his age and does a much better job against small and quick scoring guards than the overrated Royce O'Neale. Donovan and Bogey are definitely the weak links defensively in the starting lineup.

 

[LoPo]

The defensive weak link in our starting guard rotation is not Mike Conley. I guess it could be argued that because Donovan is such a poor defender we need someone who is capable of making up the difference. That guy certainly isn't Brogdon who is probably a worse defender than Conley.
If we are going to be a significantly better team defensively, then Donovan has to step up.

In the playoffs, Don is the only reason we have had a chance due to his offensive output. Our worst playoffs in his time here was the series he struggled. His defense needs to be better, but it's okay if he's our worst defender because his playoff offense has been amazing.

The problem is that Conley isn't as impactful on both ends as we would like in the playoffs. Sure he has had some hot shooting moments, but overall, I don't believe he would help us as much as a true on ball defender.

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[LogGrad98]

The defensive weak link in our starting guard rotation is not Mike Conley. I guess it could be argued that because Donovan is such a poor defender we need someone who is capable of making up the difference. That guy certainly isn't Brogdon who is probably a worse defender than Conley.
If we are going to be a significantly better team defensively, then Donovan has to step up.

Brogdon is absolutely a better defender than Conley, not to mention 5 inches taller. He's averaging more assists and rebounds than Conley as well. He's a much better perimeter disruptor and he can body up bigger guards. He's being asked to do a lot on that pacers team so he's not like a defensive specialist or anything but if he came here he'd pretty much instantly be our best perimeter defender. He's also younger than Conley. We'd be wins ahead, and better in the playoffs, if we could magically swap Conley for brogdon.

Conley puts forth the effort and gets some accolades "for his age", but the fact is in the playoffs when we are constantly facing bigger guard lines were cannot hang defensively because our guards are too small. It's been exploited again and again, to the tune of multiple 50-point games from Murray just 2 years ago. Brogdon would provide the size we need at the guard spot.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Conley is actually one of our best perimeter defenders. He's still really quick for his age and does a much better job against small and quick scoring guards than the overrated Royce O'Neale. Donovan and Bogey are definitely the weak links defensively in the starting lineup.

Royce is a good defender, but in my opinion much better against Forwards than guards. The reason he is consistently looking bad is because he guards who Donovan should be guarding.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Brogdon is absolutely a better defender than Conley, not to mention 5 inches taller. He's averaging more assists and rebounds than Conley as well. He's a much better perimeter disruptor and he can body up bigger guards. He's being asked to do a lot on that pacers team so he's not like a defensive specialist or anything but if he came here he'd pretty much instantly be our best perimeter defender. He's also younger than Conley. We'd be wins ahead, and better in the playoffs, if we could magically swap Conley for brogdon.

I’m not sure this is really true of Brogdon’s defense… at least anymore. He gets blown by a lot… the pacers fans kinda hate him. I think he’s good but I think Mike is pretty clearly better. He doesn’t have the volume of Malcolm at this point but that’s by design.

I get that we want to get more size in the backcourt… and wing… but I think it has to come at the expense of a bench guy and not our starters.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Royce is a good defender, but in my opinion much better against Forwards than guards. The reason he is consistently looking bad is because he guards who Donovan should be guarding.

I think part of it is also the guards snake around screens and he can’t get as narrow as some dudes so he struggles. He’s also strong which can work against someone… putting a hand on a forward doesn’t move them like it does a guard. Get called for more fouls the more handsy you get on smaller guys.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Brogdon is absolutely a better defender than Conley, not to mention 5 inches taller. He's averaging more assists and rebounds than Conley as well. He's a much better perimeter disruptor and he can body up bigger guards. He's being asked to do a lot on that pacers team so he's not like a defensive specialist or anything but if he came here he'd pretty much instantly be our best perimeter defender. He's also younger than Conley. We'd be wins ahead, and better in the playoffs, if we could magically swap Conley for brogdon.

Conley puts forth the effort and gets some accolades "for his age", but the fact is in the playoffs when we are constantly facing bigger guard lines were cannot hang defensively because our guards are too small. It's been exploited again and again, to the tune of multiple 50-point games from Murray just 2 years ago. Brogdon would provide the size we need at the guard spot.

I think you might be getting a little hung up on size. In theory Brogdon could be a better defender, but in the last couple of years he hasn't been. I'm pretty confident Brogdon would not make our team any better defensively, and most likely makes our team worse offensively.

 

[LogGrad98]

Royce is a good defender, but in my opinion much better against Forwards than guards. The reason he is consistently looking bad is because he guards who Donovan should be guarding.

Royce just doesn't have the foot-speed to hang with the more athletic guards in the league. He's a PF in a guard body. Makes him an in between defender for anyone he's defending: not fast enough for guards, not tall enough for forwards. Look at what Porzingas did against O'Neal, just shot right over him again and again. He makes up for that physical size issue with grit and hustle but it isn't enough in the playoffs against bigger faster players.