Trade deadline discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7506466

Alright... here's the deal.

We land Marcus Smart, Kenrich Williams, and Muscala.

We send out Ingles, Royce, and a 1st to Boston.

OKC is doing this to get a little worse this year... they need to do that. They also get Nesmith which is potentially a good future piece and a guy that needs some time. OKC can give him all he wants.

Boston and Utah both save money... OKC is way below the salary floor so the actual costs is not much. Boston gets a budget perimeter defender in Royce who can spot up and let Brown and Tatum dribble. They get a pick to help sweeten the pot for something bigger later. Not sure how high they are on Nesmith but he's not been good or playing much. If OKC didn't like Nesmith I do and would be willing to just keep him... but not sure he is able to contribute with where we currently are.

Utah starts Kenny Hustle in Royce's spot. Mix in Smart as you want. I'm sure I am ripping off Boston... or someone, but its semi-reasonable imo.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz are 1-5 versus the top 8 teams... 1 win came against a hobbled Milwaukee team. This is not a new trend. There is enough data to see a problem. We can't do a trade just for the hell of it... but if one of these defensive pieces is gettable we should push aggressively to get them.

Teams like Miami and Golden State have our number because they have long, switchy defenders who trap our guards, and they know how to attack the Jazz's defense. Those games are good reference points.

However, the Jazz had the Memphis game won (up by 2 pts with possession, with 14 secs. left) before a flukey brainfart by the officials screwed things up and gave the ball back to Memphis for a game-winning shot. The Jazz also rested Mike Conley against the Bulls, which I think turned that result. I would throw those Bulls and Grizzlies game out. The Jazz have quality wins this year over a red-hot shooting Celtics team, plus the Sixers on the road. We can disregard the Nuggets game because Jokic got hurt, and we can disregard the Bucks win because Khris Middleton was out.

However, it's clear that the Jazz have three real weaknesses they need to address:

1) Teams with long, athletic defenders have the potential to disrupt our ball movement and pick-and-roll efficiency by switching and trapping. At the same time, strong guards have the ability to slow Mitchell down. The Jazz need someone besides Mitchell who can put the ball down and beat switches. Jordan Clarkson can do this some of the time, while Bojan can punish certain mismatches. However, it would be nice if the Jazz had a long, athletic wing who could go to the rim and finish. Royce O'Neale and Rudy Gay aren't doing this enough. This is where Harrison Barnes or Jerami Grant could make a difference on offense.

2) The Jazz are not able to stop athletic, skilled guards at the point of attack, and they rely on Rudy to stop traffic in the paint. We've seen this against guys like Ja Morant and Anthony Edwards. As long as the Jazz are committed to Conely, Mitchell and Clarkson in the backcourt, they're going to have this problem. If they could bring in someone like Josh Hart or Josh Richardson, they might be able to address this without hurting our offense too much.

3) Big guards and wings who are skilled enough can score over our guards out on the floor. Mike Conley is too small to contest, and Donovan often dies on screens. We've seen guys like Tyler Herro, Desmond Bane and Brandon Ingram go off by simply side stepping and shooting over the top of our guards. Someone like Paul George or Kevin Durant will basically get open looks like he's practicing with his trainer. This is where the Jazz again need a long, athletic wing who can disrupt shooters.

The two-way impact of adding a wing like Jerami Grant or Harrison Barnes could make the Jazz as bulletproof as they're going to get, given their small backcourt.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Teams like Miami and Golden State have our number because they have long, switchy defenders who trap our guards, and they know how to attack the Jazz's defense. Those games are good reference points.

However, the Jazz had the Memphis game won (up by 2 pts with possession, with 14 secs. left) before a flukey brainfart by the officials screwed things up and gave the ball back to Memphis for a game-winning shot. The Jazz also rested Mike Conley against the Bulls, which I think turned that result. I would throw those Bulls and Grizzlies game out. The Jazz have quality wins this year over a red-hot shooting Celtics team, plus the Sixers on the road.

However, it's clear that the Jazz have three real weaknesses they need to address:

1) Teams with long, athletic defenders have the potential to disrupt our ball movement and pick-and-roll efficiency by switching and trapping. At the same time, strong guards have the ability to slow Mitchell down. The Jazz need someone besides Mitchell who can put the ball down and beat switches. Jordan Clarkson can do this some of the time, while Bojan can punish certain mismatches. However, it would be nice if the Jazz had a long, athletic wing who could go to the rim and finish. Royce O'Neale and Rudy Gay aren't doing this enough. This is where Harrison Barnes or Jerami Grant could make a difference on offense.

2) The Jazz are not able to stop athletic, skilled guards at the point of attack, and they rely on Rudy to stop traffic in the paint. We've seen this against guys like Ja Morant and Anthony Edwards. As long as the Jazz are committed to Conely, Mitchell and Clarkson in the backcourt, they're going to have this problem. If they could bring in someone like Josh Hart or Josh Richardson, they might be able to address this without hurting our offense too much.

3) Big guards and wings who are skilled enough can score over our guards out on the floor. Mike Conley is too small to contest, and Donovan often dies on screens. We've seen guys like Tyler Herro, Desmond Bane and Brandon Ingram go off by simply side stepping and shooting over the top of our guards. Someone like Paul George or Kevin Durant will basically get open looks like he's practicing with his trainer. This is where the Jazz again need a long, athletic wing who can disrupt shooters.

The losses against good teams dates back to the prior year.... if it was this year it can be explained away. Agree with a lot of your analysis. Its why I kinda like Smart more than some of the other options... though Quin will have to live with him free lancing a bit. He can play good solid defense, but if the other teams force a switch he's the type of guy that can find his way into the play somewhere.

I just saw how amped the crowd got when Donovan dug the steal out in the corner and how the whole team fed off the energy from the sequences.... it has just been so rare. Smart is the type of guy that makes those types of plays routinely.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The losses against good teams dates back to the prior year.... if it was this year it can be explained away. Agree with a lot of your analysis. Its why I kinda like Smart more than some of the other options... though Quin will have to live with him free lancing a bit. He can play good solid defense, but if the other teams force a switch he's the type of guy that can find his way into the play somewhere.

I just saw how amped the crowd got when Donovan dug the steal out in the corner and how the whole team fed off the energy from the sequences.... it has just been so rare. Smart is the type of guy that makes those types of plays routinely.

Yeah, if we're just talking about the defensive side of the ball, someone like Smart, Dort or Thybulle would single-handedly change who the Jazz are. Those guys can make offensive players retreat. I just don't like the big extension that's about to kick in for Smart.

If Dante Exum is healthy and on his game, he can have some of that effect defensively. I wouldn't rule out kicking Oni to the curb to bring back Exum on a team-friendly deal.

 

[UB]

Is Jerami Grant realistic?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Is Jerami Grant realistic?

I don't think so... I think he likely gets two late firsts and expiring salary or a first and a solid young prospect (JB likely not solid enough) and expiring salary... could even see them getting slightly more than that. I think he's a touch over-rated.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, if we're just talking about the defensive side of the ball, someone like Smart, Dort or Thybulle would single-handedly change who the Jazz are. Those guys can make offensive players retreat. I just don't like the big extension that's about to kick in for Smart.

If Dante Exum is healthy and on his game, he can have some of that effect defensively. I wouldn't rule out kicking Oni to the curb to bring back Exum on a team-friendly deal.

Issue is no one from the scrap heap is going to play more than Trent Forrest minutes.... which won't have an impact. We need to move a rotation piece to improve imo... in part to open up some playing time but also to find the better player.

I watched Smart a little and think he'd add some playmaking we need if we move Ingles. Could really benefit both sides of the ball.

 

[Jingled]

I think just about the only way we get in on a good deal is sliding in on a 3-4 team trade and snaking a guy like Smart, Melton... I just don't think a first plus Joe is what those teams are looking for... but if it is part of an asset grab for a bigger deal... Dame, Ben Simmons, Grant... then I can see us landing something worthwhile.

I completely agree with this. Some people seem to think Joe plus a 2026 or 27 first round pick is enough to get us someone like Grant, Barnes or Smart...That's just not going to happen. A lot of other teams could easily beat that offer.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7506466

Alright... here's the deal.

We land Marcus Smart, Kenrich Williams, and Muscala.

We send out Ingles, Royce, and a 1st to Boston.

OKC is doing this to get a little worse this year... they need to do that. They also get Nesmith which is potentially a good future piece and a guy that needs some time. OKC can give him all he wants.

Boston and Utah both save money... OKC is way below the salary floor so the actual costs is not much. Boston gets a budget perimeter defender in Royce who can spot up and let Brown and Tatum dribble. They get a pick to help sweeten the pot for something bigger later. Not sure how high they are on Nesmith but he's not been good or playing much. If OKC didn't like Nesmith I do and would be willing to just keep him... but not sure he is able to contribute with where we currently are.

Utah starts Kenny Hustle in Royce's spot. Mix in Smart as you want. I'm sure I am ripping off Boston... or someone, but its semi-reasonable imo.

IDK, just seems kind of weird OKC just giving away useful players just to get a bust.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

IDK, just seems kind of weird OKC just giving away useful players just to get a bust.

If they think the guy is a bust then they wouldn't. I don't think he's a bust but who knows. He's a solid gamble imo. He may have also just had a hot half season at Vandy... I think it's premature to call him a flat out bust.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades

www.espn.com

Jazz trade Ingles/Clarkson
Hornets trade: Oubre
Pelicans trade: Hart, Temple, Murphy, Justin James

Utah gets Temple/Hart/Filler
Hornets get: Ingles/Murphy
Pelicans get Clarkson/Oubre

Seems like a weird trade. Seems like a weird deal for the Hornets, but Ingles would fit their team better than Oubre offensively. Murphy gives them a 3&D guy with potential.

Utah does it to get Hart. He replaces Ingles/Clarkson as true 6th man. He would upgrade the defense and he brings a lot of versatility to the team. Temple could still be useful.

Pelicans do it because they get two good scorers. Their team just doesnt have any depth and this is a way to get two dudes under contract for next year when they are hopefully healthy with Zion.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades

www.espn.com

Jazz trade Ingles/Clarkson
Hornets trade: Oubre
Pelicans trade: Hart, Temple, Murphy, Justin James

Utah gets Temple/Hart/Filler
Hornets get: Ingles/Murphy
Pelicans get Clarkson/Oubre

Seems like a weird trade. Seems like a weird deal for the Hornets, but Ingles would fit their team better than Oubre offensively. Murphy gives them a 3&D guy with potential.

Utah does it to get Hart. He replaces Ingles/Clarkson as true 6th man. He would upgrade the defense and he brings a lot of versatility to the team. Temple could still be useful.

Pelicans do it because they get two good scorers. Their team just doesnt have any depth and this is a way to get two dudes under contract for next year when they are hopefully healthy with Zion.

Also, you can do the same trade with Hayes going to Charlotte (instead of Murphy) and Richards going to New Orleans. Would make more sense for Charlotte as they need a big and Hayes is talented.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Though looking at Hart's December splits, it seems pretty crazy to think the Pelicans would trade him. He's a pretty good fit with their current roster.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also, you can do the same trade with Hayes going to Charlotte (instead of Murphy) and Richards going to New Orleans. Would make more sense for Charlotte as they need a big and Hayes is talented.

Though looking at Hart's December splits, it seems pretty crazy to think the Pelicans would trade him. He's a pretty good fit with their current roster.

Doubt they'd give up on Murphy. Don't think Hayes has much trade value... there were reports he was available though.

Also, doubt they'd trade Hart as you mentioned... but Griffin has a way of over complicating things and I thought for sure they'd keep Lonzo (they had his restricted rights so it was their decision if they wanted it to be).

NO will do something weird I'm sure... maybe we can be the benefactor this time.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Temple is a guy I could see us getting if we use our trade exception. I also think it means we traded Royce and need Temple to do his best Royce impression.

 

[campaignist]

I'll use an analogy I bet has been used before: At this point, if they're serious about a title, the Jazz need a move like the Jrue Holiday to Milwaukee deal. Regardless of the price unless it's insane,
the question is who that's been suggested would elevate the defense in that way?

Can anyone of these dudes add that much value, and are getable?:

Jerami Grant
Marcus Smart
Harrison Barnes
Josh Hart
Josh Richardson

I've probably missed someone and I have no idea if any of them can. But I think they need a Jrue Holiday equivalent if they're going to do anything major.

 

[Jingled]

I wonder how much value JC has and what you could get for him and a future first? Joe's value has to pretty much be at an all time low.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I wonder how much value JC has and what you could get for him and a future first? Joe's value has to pretty much be at an all time low.

Joe's value is primarily as an expiring contract for a team that needs to save some money. Fortunately, there are a few teams, including the Rockets and Kings, that might fall into that category. Celtics need to trim a bit to get under the LT, but it's not much.

Clarkson would have value to several teams, including the Hawks, Lakers and Mavs.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Joe's value is primarily as an expiring contract for a team that needs to save some money. Fortunately, there are a few teams, including the Rockets and Kings, that might fall into that category. Celtics need to trim a bit to get under the LT, but it's not much.

Clarkson would have value to several teams, including the Hawks, Lakers and Mavs.

lmao hell no.

Joe's value is to a playoff team looking for the final piece.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

lmao hell no.

Joe's value is to a playoff team looking for the final piece.

Joe has barely been running the floor this year. He still works as a spot-up shooter or secondary facilitator depending on the matchup.