The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[Red]

I agree that social cohesion is a serious issue but I don't see a lot of evidence that global leaders, or at least our President is terrified of it. On the contrary, Joe Biden seems to be deliberately ripping the nation into pieces to play one off the other. There was a poll out recently from Quinnipiac that showed 76% of Americans believed political instability was the biggest threat our nation faced. A plurality of respondents in that poll said they believed Biden is doing more to divide the country.

Political Instability Not U.S. Adversaries, Seen As Bigger Threat, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Nearly 6 In 10 Think Nation's Democracy Is In Danger Of Collapse | Quinnipiac University Poll

"A fear of the enemy within, not a foreign threat, punctuates a grim assessment by Americans of a democracy in peril and a future of deepening political divisions," said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy.

poll.qu.edu

Immediately after this poll was released showing that a plurality of Americans believed Joe Biden was dividing the country, Joe seemed to feel the need to prove all those people correct. His very next public speech told Americans to pick a side. Are they going to be on this side or that side? To make sure his meaning wasn't missed for being to subtle, he invoked names from the actual American Civil War where Americans took up arms to kill each other! "Do you want to be on the side of Abraham Lincoln or Jefferson Davis?” Biden said. If you want the United States to descend into Civil War, Joe Biden is your guy.

Didn’t he also say, as a candidate, and again recently, that we’re engaged in a battle “for the soul of the nation”? That’s an undefinable kind of idea I guess, suggesting to me the question “who do we want to be”? One of the two major parties seems to be divorced from reality in their interpretation of, and reaction to, recent history. One struggles to understand how there can be any dialog at all with people divorced from reality. In some instances, even willing to see the insurrectionists of 1/6 as the actual “true Americans”, the “patriots” on 1/6. Certainly, those who believe that, are at least psychologically at war with what they view as an illegitimate government. It likely is a low grade civil war from their perspective. Not every Republican would call the insurrectionists the “real patriots”, but their silence and rejection of the 1/6 committee is tacit approval of the warped mind of Donald Trump, and his power to dictate the party line.

Whatever else I want, I can’t see rallying around a lie and letting a lie inspire actions at the state level to stack the deck for a party still allied tightly with a power hungry, seemingly very mentally sick man. Find the surveys that find each side sees the other as a grave danger to America, something to that effect is out there, and, at least psychologically, as it were, we seem to already be in a low grade civil war.

It’s a shame, but the republicans are fine with 1/6. Biden was speaking of their efforts to possibly subvert democracy at the state level. In response to a stolen election that was never stolen, but in the aftermath of which, many of them acted in support of both Trump’s lie, and Trump’s effort to himself steal the election. Seems to me THEY want to precipitate civil war acting like that. They wanted to overturn a legitimate election. These are loyal Americans? That seems WAY more divisive than anything Biden said. Seems seditious, what state would we be in if they had succeeded? Seems silly to accuse Biden of dangerous speech that divides Americans under the circumstances. Think the Republicans kinda outdid him dividing Americans. Bigly.

On the other hand, just saw a poll saying only 6% of the electorate consider election reform an important issue. That wouldn’t surprise me, either. I expect the worst, barring somebody, or some issue, who can inspire the higher angels of our nature.

 

[The Thriller]

Didn’t he also say, as a candidate, and again recently, that we’re engaged in a battle “for the soul of the nation”? That’s an undefinable kind of idea I guess, suggesting to me the question “who do we want to be”? One of the two major parties seems to be divorced from reality in their interpretation of, and reaction to, recent history. One struggles to understand how there can be any dialog at all with people divorced from reality. In some instances, even willing to see the insurrectionists of 1/6 as the actual “true Americans”, the “patriots” on 1/6. Certainly, those who believe that, are at least psychologically at war with what they view as an illegitimate government. It likely is a low grade civil war from their perspective. Not every Republican would call the insurrectionists the “real patriots”, but their silence and rejection of the 1/6 committee is tacit approval of the warped mind of Donald Trump, and his power to dictate the party line.

Whatever else I want, I can’t see rallying around a lie and letting a lie inspire actions at the state level to stack the deck for a party still allied tightly with a power hungry, seemingly very mentally sick man. Find the surveys that find each side sees the other as a grave danger to America, something to that effect is out there, and, at least psychologically, as it were, we seem to already be in a low grade civil war.

It’s a shame, but the republicans are fine with 1/6. Biden was speaking of their efforts to possibly subvert democracy at the state level. In response to a stolen election that was never stolen, but in the aftermath of which, many of them acted in support of both Trump’s lie, and Trump’s effort to himself steal the election. Seems to me THEY want to precipitate civil war acting like that. They wanted to overturn a legitimate election. These are loyal Americans? That seems WAY more divisive than anything Biden said. Seems seditious, what state would we be in if they had succeeded? Seems silly to accuse Biden of dangerous speech that divides Americans under the circumstances. Think the Republicans kinda outdid him dividing Americans. Bigly.

On the other hand, just saw a poll saying only 6% of the electorate consider election reform an important issue. That wouldn’t surprise me, either. I expect the worst, barring somebody, or some issue, who can inspire the higher angels of our nature.

Good post. Hard for Biden to be seen as successful or a unifier when one entire political party completely views him as illegitimate and his voters as being aliens, undeserving of having any political rights.

"Conservatism" is no Longer Enough

All hands on deck as we enter the counter-revolutionary moment.

americanmind.org

What are republicans doing to unite the country?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You’d also know what MLK said about “color blindness.”

No idea but I do know he died over half a century ago and in a different world. MLK Jr. was a product of a time closer to 1898 than to today. I'm more concerned with what the current President of the United States said two days ago.

I also know what constant fawning for the Black vote with transparently fake white supremacy-this and systemic racism-that is doing to move opinion in the Hispanic community.

What are republicans doing to unite the country?

Not being crazy. By public opinion polling it appears that not being crazy has universal appeal.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

...their silence and rejection of the 1/6 committee...

The people who breached the Capitol on January 6 are real Americans. They are criminals and should all be prosecuted but I do not believe we should revoke their citizenship. Jail is fine.

As for the 1/6 committee, it is a joke. First of all it is not the role of Congress to prosecute Americans. We have police and a justice system for that. Even if Congress did have the police power to enforce the law, putting on a musical number with Lin-Manuel Miranda and the Hamilton cast as part of the enforcement proceedings is not usually how quests for justice go in the real world, but I'll admit that having a moment of silence with candlelight vigil for all of the woman who was shot was a nice touch. It is a show to distract from how bad Democrats are doing with their majorities in the House, Senate, and Presidency. Why would the Republicans want to join in? Maybe some of them can sing and dance but I would rather they set about limiting the damage the majority can do for the rest of this year while trying to figure out how to convince the American public to remove those goofballs from power.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Japan, South Korea, and Vietnam aren’t in Asia?

South Korea currently has a 93 percent vax rate and 40 percent boosted. South Korea has 6,200 deaths for the entire pandemic, which would basically be half a week here in the United States. Kansas has more Covid deaths than South Korea despite having 1/25th the population.

That’s not figuring it out? Goodness. I’d love to hear your contradictory arguments.

The United States has such a god awful Covid response, safety net, and health care system. It’s why we’re going to see over 1 million dead by spring break. We account for 20 percent Of the total deaths from this pandemic. Many other countries have figured it out, we haven’t.

Mask wearing, testing and tracing, good ventilation, and vaccination really work. States have millions sitting in the coffers from the fed gov that they’re not using to end this pandemic.

They are still dealing with it. It's still a huge problem there. Less people dying is great, that doesn't mean it's okay in those places. They haven't figured it out. They are dealing with the new variants as well. They are dealing with problems as well.

 

[fishonjazz]

Not being crazy. By public opinion polling it appears that not being crazy has universal appeal.

Lol. It doesn't get crazier than MTG. How about believing jews controlling space lazers to start california wildfires? Kinda crazy right?

 

[fishonjazz]

The people who breached the Capitol on January 6 are real Americans. They are criminals and should all be prosecuted but I do not believe we should revoke their citizenship. Jail is fine.

As for the 1/6 committee, it is a joke. First of all it is not the role of Congress to prosecute Americans. We have police and a justice system for that. Even if Congress did have the police power to enforce the law, putting on a musical number with Lin-Manuel Miranda and the Hamilton cast as part of the enforcement proceedings is not usually how quests for justice go in the real world, but I'll admit that having a moment of silence with candlelight vigil for all of the woman who was shot was a nice touch. It is a show to distract from how bad Democrats are doing with their majorities in the House, Senate, and Presidency. Why would the Republicans want to join in? Maybe some of them can sing and dance but I would rather they set about limiting the damage the majority can do for the rest of this year while trying to figure out how to convince the American public to remove those goofballs from power.

You say that they are criminals and should be prosecuted. Police dont prosecute. Prosecuters (lawyers) do. Anywho, if you think they should be prosecuted then why not by congress? Are there any folks in congress with a law degree do you reckon? Plus judges are doing the sentencing which is the important thing here.

 

[Red]

As for the 1/6 committee, it is a joke.

From an interview of Yale historian Timothy Snyder:

“Are you encouraged at all by the work of the January 6 committee and also the charges that the Department of Justice unveiled, where they've actually started charging people with seditious conspiracy?

I hate to always be negative, and I won't be, but let me just start with a proviso. It's really too bad that, thanks to the archaic institution known as the filibuster, we don't have a bipartisan January 6th committee. We did have majorities in both the house and the Senate for something like that, but nevertheless, it doesn't exist. And that's a shame because democracy depends upon reflection and self-correction, and the January 6th committee is about reflection and self-correction, and so it's too bad that it couldn't have been done in the broadest way possible”.

That said, the work that it's doing is incredibly important. Democracy depends upon facts. Democracy depends upon knowing what's going on, operating in the shadow of a big lie, as a lot of us are doing — and even those of us who don't believe in the lie have to deal with it all the time — is incompatible with democracy. Myths and personality cults, and massive doses of self-deception, are incompatible with democracy. Figuring out just what happened, step by step, is compatible because it gives us that chance to reflect and to improve and to move on. So the work that the January 6th committee is doing is absolutely indispensable.

 

[Red]

@The Thriller, one of our favorite American historians….

Yale history professor Timothy Snyder told Insider he fears American democracy may not survive another Trump campaign

Author and historian Timothy Snyder thinks the 2024 campaign could end with the loser claiming power — and that could break up the United States.

www.businessinsider.com

A dream of power, an awakening to destruction

How the events of last January 6 put the existence of the United States in question

snyder.substack.com

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You say that they are criminals and should be prosecuted. Police dont prosecute. Prosecuters (lawyers) do.

Thank you Captain Obvious. Did you miss the part where I wrote "We have police and a justice system for that."

Anywho, if you think they should be prosecuted then why not by congress?

Because I believe in the separation of powers. We have a separation of powers with checks and balances for a reason. Judges *ARE* doing the sentencing because the 1/6 Committee is a Lin-Manuel Miranda musical. The court room proceedings and the musical at the capitol are not the same thing. There is no hypocrisy in being supportive of the courtroom proceedings while at the same time being dismissive of the musical at the Capitol. I'm simply treating the 1/6 Committee as the show it is, and personally I liked the work Lin-Manuel Miranda did in Moana better but Dwaye Johnson was a big part of that.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Democracy depends upon knowing what's going on, operating in the shadow of a big lie, as a lot of us are doing — and even those of us who don't believe in the lie have to deal with it all the time — is incompatible with democracy. Myths and personality cults, and massive doses of self-deception, are incompatible with democracy.

Wow, he thinks a lot of things are incompatible with democracy, a lot of things that are inseparable from the human condition. Maybe that is why democracies always fail in short order and why our founders went with a constitutional republic form of government. The biggest lie around right now is the gaslighting of the United States as a democracy, which is a Catch-22. In the mind of Timothy Snyder the United States is incompatible with democracy because of the lie and self delusion about being a democracy, and the only way it could be compatible with democracy is to purge the lie of the United States being a democracy.

Meh. It is fun to play with but in the end Timothy Snyder is just some dude on the internet with an opinion.

On the topic of Catch-22, if you haven't seen the Hulu production of Catch-22, it is great. I highly recommend it.

 

[The Thriller]

Wow, he thinks a lot of things are incompatible with democracy, a lot of things that are inseparable from the human condition. Maybe that is why democracies always fail in short order and why our founders went with a constitutional republic form of government. The biggest lie around right now is the gaslighting of the United States as a democracy, which is a Catch-22. In the mind of Timothy Snyder the United States is incompatible with democracy because of the lie and self delusion about being a democracy, and the only way it could be compatible with democracy is to purge the lie of the United States being a democracy.

Meh. It is fun to play with but in the end Timothy Snyder is just some dude on the internet with an opinion.

On the topic of Catch-22, if you haven't seen the Hulu production of Catch-22, it is great. I highly recommend it.

As has been explained to you several times before, the FFs feared a “direct democracy” not a representative democracy, as we have today.

Yeah… that’s uhhh alarming. I thought by 2024 they’d be touting Russian style kleptocracy. But now I think it’s probably going to happen by the midterms.

What’s sad is the misunderstanding about what the founders actually meant when they talked about terms like “democracy” and “republic.” A democracy at that time meant what we understand today as a “direct democracy.” Clearly, a direct democracy (like in Athens) where everyone gets to vote and decide things would be stupid. But no country today has a direct democracy. Democracies today have some form of electing representatives, presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, etc. Today’s “representative democracy” is no different than yesterday’s “republic.” They mean the same thing.

Republicans are claiming that we aren’t a democracy but a republic are doing this because:
A) they fundamentally misunderstand the difference between a direct democracy, representative democracy, and republic.
B) they’re trying to conflate democracy to being a direct democracy in order to justify minority rule, like what we had in the 1800s or what South Africa had until apartheid failed or like Russia today. Who are becoming minorities? White conservative Christian men. They want to rule over the majority of multiethnic people. That’s all there is to it.

Sen. Mike Lee’s tweets against “democracy,” explained

A prominent Republican senator set off a controversy by tweeting that “we’re not a democracy.” Here’s what he actually meant — and why the seemingly minor controversy actually matters.

www.vox.com

And

The Constitution has been amended since then. Perhaps you didn't hear about that? Changes include the direct election of Senators and increased voting eligibility for non-property owners, non-whites, women, that those aged 18-20. We started out as a republic where one legislative branch was unelected and white property-owning men decided things for the country, and have since moved on to being a democracy.

And

Lol at him conflating democracy with direct democracy. Now I understand why his argument seemed so stupid and wrong. He was saying that we aren't a direct democracy. Well duh. Like is that even possible? Does it even exist anywhere?
Silly argument

1. So in your view, who in America, blacks, women, non-landowning white males, should see their voting rights curtailed?

2. What problems do you believe this (curtailing voting rights) would solve?

 

[The Thriller]

@The Thriller, one of our favorite American historians….

Yale history professor Timothy Snyder told Insider he fears American democracy may not survive another Trump campaign

Author and historian Timothy Snyder thinks the 2024 campaign could end with the loser claiming power — and that could break up the United States.

www.businessinsider.com

A dream of power, an awakening to destruction

How the events of last January 6 put the existence of the United States in question

snyder.substack.com

Good thoughts here.

I’m not sure if Trump matters much anymore. The GOP elites, you know, the donors like the DeVos, Prince, Koch, Mercer, etc families don’t care about american democracy. The RW media ecosystem is too wealthy and powerful. And republicans are proving that you don’t have to have any alt ideas or policies. You can just distract Americans with racism and outrage and a large swath of the population will be mindlessly entertained. @Red
Snyder’s nightmare dream might happen regardless of who the GOP candidate is in 2024. We have too many elites, Fox News hosts, and mindless drones addicted to outrage who actively WANT that nightmare to happen.

A major part, the most animating part, of representative democracy is that people are supposed to care about others and political parties must compete in the marketplace of ideas for voters. That’s being rendered obsolete. So im
Not sure if trump matters going forward as long as:

1. Republicans control such large parts of the media and voting mechanisms (like gerrymandered maps). This makes it impossible for the GOP to be held accountable.
2. Large swaths of the American population remain mindless “proles” entertained by Facebook, Fox News, and boobs. This makes it impossible for self-governance as people are too distracted to be concerned with getting informed and governing. They merely jump from one outrage issue (Dr Seuss) to another (CRT) without ever actually solving problems.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

As has been explained to you several times before, the FFs feared a “direct democracy” not a representative democracy, as we have today.

You can repeat it all you want but it still doesn’t make what you’re saying true. We have a constitutional republic. Our Chief Executive is elected by a slate of electors in the Electoral College while the heads of our Judicial Branch are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Until the 17th Amendment, the people didn’t even get to vote on their Senators. The United States is a constitutional republic with a set of enumerated rights specifically designed to thwart mob rule. The United States is not a democracy now and never has been.

1. So in your view, who in America, blacks, women, non-landowning white males, should see their voting rights curtailed?

2. What problems do you believe this (curtailing voting rights) would solve?

I don’t see the world the way you do. Lumping people into this genetic trait or that ethnic heritage for determining how to treat them is a bizarre concept to me. A more direct answer to your question would be: (1) Those people who live in dense population centers should have a curtailed voice (2) to keep big cities from being the sole focus of the government. I favor a system where the Legislative Branch is bicameral with half being representative of the people and the other half being representative of the states. I also believe the slate of electors appointing the President should be similarly weighted to the way the Legislative Branch is. Luckily we can do a system like that because we aren’t a democracy and don’t have to deal with one person equaling one vote.

 

[Gameface]

Wow, he thinks a lot of things are incompatible with democracy, a lot of things that are inseparable from the human condition. Maybe that is why democracies always fail in short order and why our founders went with a constitutional republic form of government. The biggest lie around right now is the gaslighting of the United States as a democracy, which is a Catch-22. In the mind of Timothy Snyder the United States is incompatible with democracy because of the lie and self delusion about being a democracy, and the only way it could be compatible with democracy is to purge the lie of the United States being a democracy.

Meh. It is fun to play with but in the end Timothy Snyder is just some dude on the internet with an opinion.

On the topic of Catch-22, if you haven't seen the Hulu production of Catch-22, it is great. I highly recommend it.

Confirmed, Catch-22 on Hulu is very good.

 

[The Thriller]

You can repeat it all you want but it still doesn’t make what you’re saying true. We have a constitutional republic. Our Chief Executive is elected by a slate of electors in the Electoral College while the heads of our Judicial Branch are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Until the 17th Amendment, the people didn’t even get to vote on their Senators. The United States is a constitutional republic with a set of enumerated rights specifically designed to thwart mob rule. The United States is not a democracy now and never has been.

What you described is a representative democracy. Why does a written constitution and branches of government fundamentally change this for you?

This is how I used to describe this to students, imagine a big tree. The tree represents social and political orders. Within the tree are branches, which represent different types of governments, monarchies, oligarchies, and democracies. The stems and leaves are the specific forms of government. What you described, a constitutional republic, would be a stem which branches off from democracy.

I don’t see the world the way you do. Lumping people into this genetic trait or that ethnic heritage for determining how to treat them is a bizarre concept to me.

Wait a second, this isn't just me making stuff up. In 1787 did women have the right to vote? Did blacks? Did non-landowning white men? It's bizarre to me that you keep ignoring current voting rights issues as if there's no historic pretext.

(1) Those people who live in dense population centers should have a curtailed voice (2) to keep big cities from being the sole focus of the government. I favor a system where the Legislative Branch is bicameral with half being representative of the people and the other half being representative of the states.

The Senate and EC still exist, right?

I also believe the slate of electors appointing the President should be similarly weighted to the way the Legislative Branch is. Luckily we can do a system like that because we aren’t a democracy and don’t have to deal with one person equaling one vote.

We also see the problems with letting the minority impede the country's progress, right? The last 10 years have given us ample evidence, right? Increased polarization, anger, and now attacks on the very democracy.
I also believe that a slate of electors deciding things causes problems too, right? Like if a handful of state legislators had overruled citizens and Secs of State, then Trump easily could've been re-elected despite having lost the popular vote by 8+ million, right?

 

[The Thriller]

Allowing a slate of electors determine elections vs popular vote causes... Issues. As Donald Trump hopes to exploit next time:

 

[The Thriller]

Isn’t it nice to have a governor who is making policy to revive small towns, provide jobs and health care, and help the forgotten man who has been mocked by college educated elites? This certainly is going to improve lives! /s

 

[Al-O-Meter]

What you described is a representative democracy. Why does a written constitution and branches of government fundamentally change this for you?

The will of the people is the supreme authority in a representative democracy. In a republic it is not. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a constitution that supersedes the will of the people for the government to be a republic, but it does have to be something abridging the will of the people. Our republic is a constitutional one.

Wait a second, this isn't just me...

As funny as it is that you just lumped yourself in with those who denied women and Black people the vote for this genetic trait or that ethnic heritage, I know that isn't what you intended.

I also believe that a slate of electors deciding things causes problems too, right?

We should take a moment to appreciate the role our system played in protecting the 2020 election. The nation was horribly divided with a demagogue fighting for the nation’s soul. There were allegations of fraud and court challenges everywhere. There was even what happened at the Capitol Building on January 6th. None of it mattered. With all the chaos, everything worked like clockwork. Safe Harbor happened on December 8. The Electoral vote happened on December 14 at which point Biden became the President Elect. January 6th was a ceremonial date and no Mike Pence could not have named Trump as President because that isn’t how the system works. On January 20 the duly elected President was sworn into office. The system did the job it was designed to do and did so beautifully.

 

[The Thriller]

The will of the people is the supreme authority in a representative democracy. In a republic it is not. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a constitution that supersedes the will of the people for the government to be a republic, but it does have to be something abridging the will of the people. Our republic is a constitutional one.

As funny as it is that you just lumped yourself in with those who denied women and Black people the vote for this genetic trait or that ethnic heritage, I know that isn't what you intended.

We should take a moment to appreciate the role our system played in protecting the 2020 election. The nation was horribly divided with a demagogue fighting for the nation’s soul. There were allegations of fraud and court challenges everywhere. There was even what happened at the Capitol Building on January 6th. None of it mattered. With all the chaos, everything worked like clockwork. Safe Harbor happened on December 8. The Electoral vote happened on December 14 at which point Biden became the President Elect. January 6th was a ceremonial date and no Mike Pence could not have named Trump as President because that isn’t how the system works. On January 20 the duly elected President was sworn into office. The system did the job it was designed to do and did so beautifully.

You’re a dishonest *******. This entire post is just spin, misquotes, bad faith arguments, and actual falsehoods. What a sad person you are. That’s okay, I won’t give you the thrill of arguing over this anymore. Shame