The United States is NOT a democracy and never was

[Al-O-Meter]

Welcome back to Middle School where we relearn something Americans should have all been taught in 7th grade Social Studies and had reinforced in 8th grade Civics. The United States is not a democracy. It never was. The United States is a republic. America’s government does have democratically elected positions but that does not make it a democracy and adding ‘representative’ to the beginning of democracy doesn’t fix the fundamental reason the US is not a democracy, representative or otherwise.

What is a democracy?

The defining characteristic of a democracy is right in the word itself. It comes from the Greek ‘demos’, meaning ‘the people’, and ‘kratia’, meaning ‘power, rule, authority’. In a democracy it is the will of the people that is the supreme authority. In a representative democracy, the people elect representatives to speak on behalf of their constituents but it is still the will of the people that is the highest authority.

The US elects representatives who govern on behalf of their constituents so doesn’t that make the US a representative democracy?

No, the United States is not a representative democracy even though the people of the United States democratically elect representatives to govern on their behalf. This becomes crystal clear when you understand that a law passed by the people’s representatives with broad popular appeal can be struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. In the United States, the US Constitution is a higher authority than the will of the people. THAT is what makes the United States a republic.

It is true the people can amend the US Constitution, but even that process must be done in accordance with the US Constitution. In the American system of government the US Constitution is the highest authority. It is above the ‘will of the people’, and that is a very good thing. Majorities of people can be fickle, vindictive, and make stupid decisions. The popular majority cannot be counted on to preserve the rights of individuals at all times, and it was that point more than any other for the founders of our country to choose to fashion our system of government as a republic.

Those telling you that our democracy is in danger are trying to manipulate you with a lie. We don't have a democracy. We never did. We have a republic for as long as we can keep it.

 

[Red]

Call it whatever you want, it evolved to “one man, one vote” with the expansion of the franchise over time. In 2020, Trump tried, very hard apparently, to throw my “one vote” away. Or rather, he tried to render it meaningless. He had help, too. Key members of the Republican caucus. A mob on 1/6. Key right wing media figures, and key Republicans, pushing the Big Lie, Trump’s invalid, illegitimate reason for trying to overturn the results of the election. I cast a vote for the man who won the election. I decided I might as well take it personally that Trump,and his allies and supporters want to overturn this election, and try to prevent a peaceful transfer of power. I played by the rules and voted for the winner. I want a full accounting. I played by the rules and exercised my right to vote. I expect everyone to,
play by those rules, and if not, I want to know why.

You have spent an inordinate amount of time promoting Franklin’s words, as it were, which were accurate after all. But distinguishing democracy from a constitutional republic is not really the point of much of what we have been discussing in the threads involving 1/6, and the thread involving “why Republicans want to restrict the vote”, etc. The democracy I am visualizing is contained within that phrase “one man, one vote”(yes, I recognize it’s not really gender specific). My vote went to the winning candidate. I’m resentful, and insistent on a full accounting of 1/6, and the effort it represented to make an effing joke of that concept.

Anyone who gives a damn about this republic should want a full accounting of Trump’s effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

In relation to what Trump attempted, in relation to 1/6, your points are irrelevant.

 

[fishonjazz]

Lol


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[One Brow]

In the American system of government the US Constitution is the highest authority. It is above the ‘will of the people’, and that is a very good thing. ... and it was that point more than any other for the founders of our country to choose to fashion our system of government as a republic.

If the Constitution is the highest authority, we do not have a republic.

Definition of REPUBLIC

a government in which the power belongs to a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by the leaders and representatives elected by those citizens to govern according to law… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

 

[Al-O-Meter]

In relation to what Trump attempted, in relation to 1/6, your points are irrelevant.

What happened on January 6th is in the past. When people say "our democracy is in danger", they are talking present tense. They aren't talking 1/6 but rather trying to make an argument for the Federal government to seize control of the elections away from the states. In the context of passing the so-called "voting rights act", anyone who tell you our democracy is in danger is lying.

The lie is especially transparent seeing as the United States has been there, done that as far as shenanigans in the Electoral College taking away the seating of a candidate who won the popular vote and should have rightfully won the majority of the electoral vote except for a backroom deal to faithlessly switch enough electoral votes to make the loser the President. The event was so obviously untraumatic to US History that it didn't end our government as we know it and wasn't even important enough for nearly everyone to know which President it was. That phrase is a telltale of the information being given with the phrase is highly suspect.

Spoiler: This is who the President and candidate were.

The President who received 47.9% of the vote as compared to his challenger who got 50.9% of the vote and should have won the 185+ electoral votes needed to win in 1876 where Rutherford B Hayes and Samuel J Tilden.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If the Constitution is the highest authority, we do not have a republic.

It is and we do. If you still have a PoliSci textbook lying around from college, look it up in that because Webster is playing loose with their terms.

 

[One Brow]

It is and we do. If you still have a PoliSci textbook lying around from college, look it up in that because Webster is playing loose with their terms.

It is a dictionary, and any effort to define terms according to how the public uses them will be loose.

However, why don't you quote a definition of republic from somewhere that describes us and excludes China?

 

[One Brow]

The lie is especially transparent seeing as the United States has been there, done that as far as shenanigans in the Electoral College taking away the seating of a candidate who won the popular vote and should have rightfully won the majority of the electoral vote except for a backroom deal to faithlessly switch enough electoral votes to make the loser the President. The event was so obviously untraumatic to US History that it didn't end our government as we know it and wasn't even important enough for nearly everyone to know which President it was.

Without checking your spoiler, I already knew that was Presidents, aka, more than one. The "fraud" and before him, the kid.

Still, it's good to know you don't think it matters if the President who wins the EC still loses. It does tell us where you stand.

 

[LogGrad98]

Without checking your spoiler, I already knew that was Presidents, aka, more than one. The "fraud" and before him, the kid.

Still, it's good to know you don't think it matters if the President who wins the EC still loses. It does tell us where you stand.

I think he is trying to say that if his guy loses the EC he should still win the election and if someone loses the popular vote and still wins the election there is something wrong, as long as it isn't George Bush because that was good and right apparently.

 

[Red]

Sometimes democracy looks like this. Thousands gathered on the lawn of the Capital. Exercising freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. Stopping short of invading and trashing the People’s House. I can’t remember the speaker that day, 1970 I think, but this is what..democracy…looked like, at times. Took too long, but it did make a difference.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Sometimes democracy looks like this. Thousands gathered on the lawn of the Capital. Exercising freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. Stopping short of invading and trashing the People’s House. I can’t remember the speaker that day, 1970 I think, but this is what..democracy…looked like, at times. Took too long, but it did make a difference.

That is what freedom of speech and freedom of assembly looks like. Claiming those things are democracy is what "concept creep" looks like and it is a significant contributor to people on the political right and political left having difficulty talking to each other. Speech is violence. Silence is violence. Male swimmers are now the best girl swimmers. Making your voice heard with a group of like-minded people is now imposing a right to rule. Apologies for coming across so harsh. I know what you meant Red, but the crazy things people are doing to language is a thing I find deeply concerning.

 

[Gameface]

This is really funny because I was going to post a pet peeve yesterday about how fun it is to have someone explain that the United states is a Constitutional Republic.

So this thread makes it about the 1,000,000th time I've had it unnecessarily explained to me that the United States is NOT a Democracy.

The point is SO incredibly relevant... oh wait, it isn't.

 

[One Brow]

Male swimmers are now the best girl swimmers.

Who are these male swimmers with Olympic gold medals in the women's categories? Or, were you referring to Iszac Henig, who still has a female body, as they have not taken any gender-altering hormones yet? Do all you conservanuts get your talking points from the same source?

 

[LogGrad98]

This is really funny because I was going to post a pet peeve yesterday about how fun it is to have someone explain that the United states is a Constitutional Republic.

So this thread makes it about the 1,000,000th time I've had it unnecessarily explained to me that the United States is NOT a Democracy.

The point is SO incredibly relevant... oh wait, it isn't.

But did you catch on that the country is NOT a Representative Democracy? That is an important point, for, uh, reasons. Don't want you to miss that one.

You're welcome.

 

[LogGrad98]

Who are these male swimmers with Olympic gold medals in the women's categories? Or, were you referring to Iszac Henig, who still has a female body, as they have not taken any gender-altering hormones yet? Do all you conservanuts get your talking points from the same source?

Pretty sure he is referring to Lisa Thomas. Not exactly olympic gold but breaking all kinds of women's swimming records.

UPenn transgender swimmer Lia Thomas sparks outrage by shattering women’s records

Lia Thomas, a 22-year old transgender swimmer at the University of Pennsylvania, has been shattering women’s records at the school.

nypost.com

 

[One Brow]

Pretty sure he is referring to Lisa Thomas. Not exactly olympic gold but breaking all kinds of women's swimming records.

UPenn transgender swimmer Lia Thomas sparks outrage by shattering women’s records

Lia Thomas, a 22-year old transgender swimmer at the University of Pennsylvania, has been shattering women’s records at the school.

nypost.com

You mean, the person that Iszac Henig soundly outswam?

 

[LogGrad98]

You mean, the person that Iszac Henig soundly outswam?

I have no horse in this race, I just think this is who he was referring to.

 

[Red]

They remain united behind Trump, and they have decided that if they cannot have democracy and Republican rule, then democracy has to go.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/19/america-biden-trump-authoritarinism

One way to help dilute, defuse, hopefully stamp out, all this brouhaha over 1/6, all this anguish over the “fate of American democracy” is to simply convince people “what democracy??”.

You know, “C’mon folks! You’re worried over nothing. Trust us, our system of governance is safe, ignore the hue and cry over the dangers to our “democracy”. This is a made up crisis by some very unAmerican people. Made up by people who don’t even know our system of governance!”

Silly people.C’mon, do you really think this is happening:

“How are Republicans justifying their assault on democracy? They consider themselves the sole proponents of “real America”, and they believe to be defending it against the insidious forces of leftism and “wokeism” that have supposedly captured the Democratic party. What follows from that proposition is that Democratic governance – whether or not it has the support of a majority of the electorate – is fundamentally illegitimate: the Democratic party is not simply a political opponent, but a radically “un-American” enemy.”

And, what could go wrong? All this anguish over 1/6, and the 1/6 Committee, all this worry over something that does not exist, and never has!

What could go wrong?

“Could it actually happen here? Without effective federal legislation to protect and reform democracy, the country will rapidly turn into a dysfunctional pseudo-democratic system at the national level – and on the state level will be divided into democracy in one half of the states, and authoritarian one-party rule in the other. As a whole, America would cease to be a democracy.”

(The above paragraph strikes me as a high probability outcome. Silly me I guess).

Besides, if you’re that concerned, you can always take part in the American tradition of protest. You can take to the streets and voice your concerns:

“Practice corporeal politics. Power wants your body softening in your chair and your emotions dissipating on the screen. Get outside. Put your body in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. Make new friends and march with them.”
― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

Understand, as the years unwind, you may find that avenue has had a few roadblocks put up:

US Protest Law Tracker - ICNL

The US Protest Law Tracker, part of ICNL’s US Program, follows initiatives at the state and federal level since November 2016 that restrict the right to protest. Click this link to see the full Tracker.

www.icnl.org

 

[Al-O-Meter]

How are Republicans justifying their assault on democracy?

Welcome back to Middle School where we relearn something Americans should have all been taught in 7th grade Social Studies and had reinforced in 8th grade Civics. The United States is not a democracy. It never was. The United States is a republic. Those telling you that our democracy is in danger are trying to manipulate you with a lie.

The truth is that the Republicans aren't doing anything. They aren't the party in power. Democrats are the majority party in the House. Democrats are the majority party in the Senate. Democrats have the White House. To distract from how totally feckless the Democrats have been over this past year some of their supporters are resorting to scare-mongering. That is all this is.

Hey Democrats, how about giving up on fanciful big lie claims that all future elections will be stolen and instead fix the inflation mess you caused? Remember the Bill Clinton winning campaign theme of "It's the economy stupid"? Maybe try responsible governance rather running the money printing presses as fast as possible, insisting the United States project the strength of wet toilet paper internationally, and demonizing half the country? Just a thought.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I get accused from time to time of making a big deal about the United States being a republic rather than a democracy. There is an important reason for it: I really love our country and I don’t want to see it destroyed.

If I asked you the difference between a monarchy and a democracy, I think most could tell me. If I asked you the difference between direct democracy and a representational democracy, again I think most could tell me. Now, if I asked you to tell me the difference between a democracy and a republic, I think nearly everyone would pause and most would search the internet to come up with an answer. I think nearly 100% of those who say “our democracy is in danger” would not be able to explain the difference between a democracy and a republic from their own knowledge.

Democracy is really dangerous. Democracy is control of you. I’d like to introduce you to a man who has shaped your life without you even knowing. He was named by Life magazine as one of the most influential people of the 20th century. His name is Edward Bernays, known as the father of public relations.

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
― Edward Bernays, Propaganda (book published in 1928)

If you got married or engaged and the engagement ring had a diamond, that is Edward Bernays. Bernays made smoking cool. Bernays worked with Progressive Democrats like Woodrow Wilson and Conservative Republicans like Calvin Coolidge. Much of the Red Scare was Bernays. He was the nephew of famed psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud and was the first to use Freud’s insights into human psychology to manipulate society. That you know who Sigmund Freud is at all is only because of Bernays making you know about him.

There was a great, award winning documentary series by the BBC that delved into Edward Bernays, the Freud family, and the impact they had on our society.



The techniques developed by Edward Bernays are incredibly effective. They work. They don’t always get everyone but they do snag the majority and if you employ them in the context of democracy then what you get is control of everyone.

The difference between democracy and a republic are the limitations on the public. In a democracy, representational or direct, it is the will of the people that has ultimate authority. In a republic there are guardrails that constrain the will of the people. That is the difference. Those repeating the phrase “our democracy is in danger” are repeating the marketing being used to justify tearing down the guardrails. If those guardrails get removed there will be nothing to stop these Bernays techniques from seizing absolute control of you. In a democracy, the individual is nothing. Only the majority matters and the majority can always be controlled.

For today at least, the United States is a republic and I am thankful for it.