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Transgender and sports

One Brow said:
It's annoying, frustrating, and telling that people keep wanting to discuss cis men in thread supposedly about trans women.
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People want to discuss the performance advantages of being biologically male versus female. Your idea that sports should be divided up by what kind of clothes people want to wear is bonkers.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
People want to discuss the performance advantages of being biologically male versus female.
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Technically, once you have started hormone therapy, you have changed your biology and are no longer biologically male.

However, if you really want to discuss the performance advantages, shouldn't there be significant performance advantages to discuss? So, there has been a grand total of one trans woman winning an Olympic medal, and she wasn't even the best player on that soccer team. There's been 1 WNBA player that I know of, and she hasn't been a star. Instead, the bigots focus on Connecticut track meets and Ivy League swimming, not exactly hot-spots of athletic talent. Your supposed performance advantages for trans women are an illusion, conjured out of your own hate and fear.

Al-O-Meter said:
Your idea that sports should be divided up by what kind of clothes people want to wear is bonkers.
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Your idea that this is my idea or represents my idea is an evil, ugly, lie, based on the bigoted notion that trans women are not really women.
 
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TheGoldStandard said:
Fish, I agree with you. With most sports, biological males, on average, have strength and size advantages over their biological female counterparts.
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Predictably, you went on an evidence-free rant that focused on cis men.

TheGoldStandard said:
Taking estrogen, removing your testes or blocking estrogen won't take away a lot of advantages a biological male will develop over their lifetime. Taking a position that this is not the case is as absurd as the stance most anti-vaxxers take, you are simply trying to make your stance fit a false narrative.
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Since no one has taken that position, an honest person would drop it. I expect you to repeat it frequently.

TheGoldStandard said:
We aren't seeing trans men dominating male sports,
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Did you know the first trans Olympian was a trans man?

TheGoldStandard said:
... we see a good # of trans women are leading the pack in their region, schools or overall sport, and there is a reason for that.
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There is. They are leading in areas that don't produce/recruit large numbers of top-level women athletes, so they have a better chance to dominate there.

TheGoldStandard said:
We are at the very beginning of this,
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Slippery slope arguments are fallacies.

TheGoldStandard said:
I have no problem competing on a fair playing field. I also think someone that takes testosterone or HDH but stops in time to pass testing should still be banned, even if their intent was not to get an unfair advantage. Biological males have a similar advantage.
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Why don't you trust the governing body of a sport to decide what they consider to be a fair playing field for their sport?

TheGoldStandard said:
I support the trans community, I just think their is an unfair advantage for trans women to participate in most cis women sports.
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No doubt you'll start using data, as opposed to anecdotes, to prove this. I mean, you're not just some bigot, right? You really support trans people, so you'd only limit them based on some sort of evidence, right?
 
One Brow said:
Technically, once you have started hormone therapy, you have changed your biology and are no longer biologically male.
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You have said some dumb things but this one is a prize winner. Being biologically male is about gamete production. It doesn't matter is you are a human or a lizard or a fish or a plant. You don't stop being biologically male by suppressing a hormone during adulthood, or wearing dresses, or changing the pronouns in your twitter bio. That isn't how biology works.

One Brow said:
Instead, the bigots focus on...
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Wokesters focus on name-calling to distract from how ridiculous their argument is.

One Brow said:
Your idea that this is my idea or represents my idea is an evil, ugly, lie, based on the bigoted notion that trans women are not really women.
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Trans women are not really biological women. Name-call all you want but EVERYONE knows this truth. Trans women are biological males who are uncomfortable that they are biological men.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
You have said some dumb things but this one is a prize winner. Being biologically male is about gamete production.
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You have committed a greater irony unintentionally than I could have done deliberately. No pre-pubescent children are biologically male by this definition. Castrated men are not biologically male by this definition. Men over 70 are not biologically male by this definition. Trans women who have had bottom surgery are not biologically male by this definition.

Al-O-Meter said:
That isn't how biology works.
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Your profound ignorance of biology is expected.

Al-O-Meter said:
Wokesters focus on name-calling to distract from how ridiculous their argument is.
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Just speaking the truth about you. I'm sure it's painful.

Al-O-Meter said:
Trans women are not really biological women. Name-call all you want but EVERYONE knows this truth. Trans women are biological males who are uncomfortable that they are biological men.
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Bigots will be bigots. They will complain about being called bigots, but that won't stop them from being bigots. They seek the respectability of being considered rational without doing the hard work of providing rational opinions.
 
gandalfe said:
How many people would have heard of Kobe Bryant if there wasn't an NBA?

I mean, that is seriously one of the dumbest things I've read on this site. I know what you're trying to say, but.... you're saying it badly.

Speaking of Kobe, he mentioned 3 WNBA players who were playing at the time who could keep up in the NBA. Not be stars, but keep up. There was Diana Taurisi, Elena Delle Donne, and... I don't remember the other one. But I think it would be safe to say that Kobe knew more about basketball than you or me. And that was just 3 who played at the time off the top of his head.
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What you meant to say is "how many people would have heard of kobe with no pro basketball?" Well none. But see with pro basketball you would still have heard of kobe but not lisa leslie. Lisa leslie needed a seperate womens league to be heard of. Why is that?
 
LogGrad98 said:
One result of a quick google. Looks like generally women's world records are about 85 to 90% that of men's world records for same sports. Didn't dig deep enough to find the sports that are tilted the other way. Just grabbed the first link that looked interesting.

We Thought Female Athletes Were Catching Up to Men, but They're Not

Across dozens of sports, women's world speed records consistently fall 10 percent short of men's records.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
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Yep and its obvious.
 
fishonjazz said:
What you meant to say is "how many people would have heard of kobe with no pro basketball?" Well none. But see with pro basketball you would still have heard of kobe but not lisa leslie. Lisa leslie needed a seperate womens league to be heard of. Why is that?
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Assuming your hypothetical is correct, maybe it's because our society values men and their accomplishments and abilities more than women? Can you honestly say with a straight face that there have been no women in the time the NBA has existed who would have been better players than, say, Paul Shirley? Or Dante Exum? Adam Morrison?
 
gandalfe said:
Assuming your hypothetical is correct, maybe it's because our society values men and their accomplishments and abilities more than women? Can you honestly say with a straight face that there have been no women in the time the NBA has existed who would have been better players than, say, Paul Shirley? Or Dante Exum? Adam Morrison?
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Yes, there are no women. They’d be annihilated someone like Exum.


Our beloved US Women’s Soccer Team lost to a bunch of boys.
 
Keefe said:
Yes, there are no women. They’d be annihilated someone like Exum.


Our beloved US Women’s Soccer Team lost to a bunch of boys.
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Informal game, and the boys had something to prove, not sure that shows that much tbh.
 
gandalfe said:
Assuming your hypothetical is correct, maybe it's because our society values men and their accomplishments and abilities more than women? Can you honestly say with a straight face that there have been no women in the time the NBA has existed who would have been better players than, say, Paul Shirley? Or Dante Exum? Adam Morrison?
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Of course thats what im saying. And of course its true. Somewhat related story: I went to the harlem globetrotters game a few weeks ago. They have a woman on the team. They kept passing her the ball and leaving her wide open for mid range jump shots and she kept missing. Eventually she finally made one and the crowd gave the obligatory "a woman scored!" cheer. She was quite obviously the worst player on the court for either team. (I know that harlem globetrotters isn't "real" basketball but you can still tell who can play and who cant.)
No woman in the history of basketball has been good enough to play in the nba. Im certain of that.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Informal game, and the boys had something to prove, not sure that shows that much tbh.
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Seems like a great opportunity for the women to prove something as well.
 
LogGrad98 said:
They didn't care, they had just won a championship. Last thing they wanted was an injury for no good reason.
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Strange to even play the game then.
 
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