Blow the !@$%!%#$ Team Up

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we are making a major shift or "blowing it up", I see no reason to keep Conley if he has any market at all. That's not fair to him, and although his contract isn't fully guaranteed for 23-24, it still isn't a clean team option.

Mike needs to go unless we simply cannot trade him.

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I think the Lakers, Clippers, and Wiz would have interest... and we should move him. There is a lot of money in that partial guarantee but could be stretched and waived next year if you needed the space. I generally agree though... any shift or blow up then I think Conley is moved and either Donovan moves to pg or you are just blowing it up so don't need Mike at all.

Dallas may lose Brunson and you could do a move with the Mavs too... I think Mike will still have some value even though he struggled this series... all of our guys struggled so that might not stick to just him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Dream Team for next year:

Mike Conley
RJ Barrett
Bogey
Chet Holmgren
Rudy Gobert

Clarkson/Fournier/Burks/Whiteside/Grimes

Knicks pull the trigger on this deal because they don't have to give up too much in terms of future assets. It's not the monster haul of picks everyone likes to dream about. They give up their first this year (which is contingent on being in position to draft Chet or Jabari) and Dallas's first next year. They also give up two 2nd rounders in 2023 that project to be early 2nd rounders.

Jazz get Chet. Him and Gobert become the most feared defensive duo in the NBA. RJ breaks out as a primary option star, averages 24 on the season. Burks comes back to Utah better than ever as the primary backup PG to Conley (who will be playing reduced minutes). Fournier teaches the team how to play with Gobert. Jazz Win the ring in 2023.

 

[LogGrad98]

Frankly just moving Mitchell could net us enough to pivot directions and keep moving forward. We should get a good young player and picks for him easy. That is the move that makes the most sense to keep winning.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Dream Team for next year:

Mike Conley
RJ Barrett
Bogey
Chet Holmgren
Rudy Gobert

Clarkson/Fournier/Burks/Whiteside/Grimes

Knicks pull the trigger on this deal because they don't have to give up too much in terms of future assets. It's not the monster haul of picks everyone likes to dream about. They give up their first this year (which is contingent on being in position to draft Chet or Jabari) and Dallas's first next year. They also give up two 2nd rounders in 2023 that project to be early 2nd rounders.

Jazz get Chet. Him and Gobert become the most feared defensive duo in the NBA. RJ breaks out as a primary option star, averages 24 on the season. Burks comes back to Utah better than ever as the primary backup PG to Conley (who will be playing reduced minutes). Fournier teaches the team how to play with Gobert. Jazz Win the ring in 2023.

View attachment 12016

I think if the Knicks give up a top 4 pick they keep RJ... if they are smart any deal they do for Donovan also includes them keeping RJ... they sense I get is they regard RJ as in a similar tier to Donovan or that he will be there. Could be wrong and his shooting percentages dropped this year. He could be better on a team with more shooting (or some shooting) and I think Randle is kind of the worst type of guy to have RJ with.

I could be 100% wrong... its all theoretical... but just giving a slight counterpoint. They also might be desperate to improve and ready to make one of their short sighted dumb moves.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If you want a win now move I think a darkhorse could be Detroit. Say they land 3 or 4 would they do Grant and #3/#4 for Donovan. Would scrape some dollars off the cap... get us a wing and you draft one of Banchero, Chet, Ivey, Sharpe. You can move some of the other pieces around and also give Grant the somewhat "featured" role he'd want and hopefully have a decent defense. If the pick hits you are gold.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If you want a win now move I think a darkhorse could be Detroit. Say they land 3 or 4 would they do Grant and #3/#4 for Donovan. Would scrape some dollars off the cap... get us a wing and you draft one of Banchero, Chet, Ivey, Sharpe. You can move some of the other pieces around and also give Grant the somewhat "featured" role he'd want and hopefully have a decent defense. If the pick hits you are gold.

Also provides some cap relief as Detroit can take on some salary... could likely sneak Gay into that deal too... they have cap space.

They may not do it unless they feel they are going to lose out on Brunson, Simons or the other guard free agents.

 

[Elizah Huge]

If you want a win now move I think a darkhorse could be Detroit. Say they land 3 or 4 would they do Grant and #3/#4 for Donovan. Would scrape some dollars off the cap... get us a wing and you draft one of Banchero, Chet, Ivey, Sharpe. You can move some of the other pieces around and also give Grant the somewhat "featured" role he'd want and hopefully have a decent defense. If the pick hits you are gold.

That’s very interesting.

I know he’s injury prone but I’d be interested in Anthony Davis.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So quick thought... not sure how we get it done... but say we got a good offer for Donovan but wanted to keep it together to compete... would we be able to sneak Collin Sexton in a sign and trade for Bogey or maybe even Mike plus a scrap or two from what we get in the Donovan deal?

I don't think he's in Don's tier but he's a solid young player and has some ************* to him... we need that desperately.

 

[LoPo]

I'm a Don guy, but I'm also a realist: there is no way we trade Donovan AND get better in the process.

We will get more potential for Don instead of a ready to lead type player. By the time that potential evolves, Rudy regresses and his contract starts really hurting. So as one thing improves, other things decline.

We were 100% healthy this playoffs, and we struggled. It's a fools errand to build around Rudy. It's too late fellas.

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[LogGrad98]

That’s very interesting.

I know he’s injury prone but I’d be interested in Anthony Davis.

Davis with Gobert would be defensively devastating.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think if the Knicks give up a top 4 pick they keep RJ... if they are smart any deal they do for Donovan also includes them keeping RJ... they sense I get is they regard RJ as in a similar tier to Donovan or that he will be there. Could be wrong and his shooting percentages dropped this year. He could be better on a team with more shooting (or some shooting) and I think Randle is kind of the worst type of guy to have RJ with.

I could be 100% wrong... its all theoretical... but just giving a slight counterpoint. They also might be desperate to improve and ready to make one of their short sighted dumb moves.

Yeah, idk either.

You can also modify the trade to make it more Knicks friendly (taking out Fournier/Gay).

I just think that this is a deal that let's them get their hometown star in his prime without having to sacrifice a single future pick of their own.

The Dallas first next year is going to be in the 20s. Then they give up two early 2nd rounders. If you take Fournier out they are only trading one starter to get Donovan.

I could also make an alternate trade like this that is more focused on drafting Jabari...

Let's the Knicks get off Randles contract.

Gives them a core of Mitchell/RJ/Bogey. Also think this frees up max money for them the following year..

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm a Don guy, but I'm also a realist: there is no way we trade Donovan AND get better in the process.

We will get more potential for Don instead of a ready to lead type player. By the time that potential evolves, Rudy regresses and his contract starts really hurting. So as one thing improves, other things decline.

We were 100% healthy this playoffs, and we struggled. It's a fools errand to build around Rudy. It's too late fellas.

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Yeah, the Jazz can't possibly improve on a first round ext lmfao

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, idk either.

You can also modify the trade to make it more Knicks friendly (taking out Fournier/Gay).

I just think that this is a deal that let's them get their hometown star in his prime without having to sacrifice a single future pick of their own.

The Dallas first next year is going to be in the 20s. Then they give up two early 2nd rounders. If you take Fournier out they are only trading one starter to get Donovan.

I could also make an alternate trade like this that is more focused on drafting Jabari...
View attachment 12017
Let's the Knicks get off Randles contract.

Gives them a core of Mitchell/RJ/Bogey. Also think this frees up max money for them the following year..

Yeah something like this I can definitely see as appealing... I loathe Randle's contract. I guess its the ultimate buy low and cross your fingers. I think Jabari has a shot to be pretty awesome.

I just wonder if we could get something super solid for Donovan then get Sexton cheap as a budget version of what Donovan does... if we want to win now and give ourselves more upside.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah something like this I can definitely see as appealing... I loathe Randle's contract. I guess its the ultimate buy low and cross your fingers. I think Jabari has a shot to be pretty awesome.

I just wonder if we could get something super solid for Donovan then get Sexton cheap as a budget version of what Donovan does... if we want to win now and give ourselves more upside.

Yeah I hate Randle too lmao. I also hate the idea of Sexton. With building around Rudy I want everyone to be tall and a willing passer. We going to have to coach the ball stopping out of Randle, so I don't want to deal with doing it with Sexton as well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah I hate Randle too lmao. I also hate the idea of Sexton. With building around Rudy I want everyone to be tall and a willing passer. We going to have to coach the ball stopping out of Randle, so I don't want to deal with doing it with Sexton as well.

Oh no... can't have Randle and Sexton together. I was thinking if you nabbed Grant and #3/#4 out of Detroit you might be able to swipe Sexton on the cheap.

Sexton, Grant, Rudy, Banchero/Ivey/Chet is an okayish start to building something... IDK I was just looking at guys that might be undervalued and Sexton is a guy to watch.

I think Detroit will land one of Brunson, Simons, Sexton, Tyus Jones with their cap space so they may not be interested.

I'd rather just blow the whole thing up... the more I think about it the more I am sold it is the best path. You could keep guys like Randle in those scenarios and let them rehab value if you aren't trying to win.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And the route may not be to look for budget versions of Donovan (like Sexton) but you move Donovan and you do need more creators. Having better passers would be amazing but if you got a budget creator and used the excess trade value to fill out the wings then maybe its a better version of what we have built in the past.

Guys like Sexton get a some serious stink on them when in losing situations but then get looked at differently if they can be somewhat efficient in winning situations. Lavine, Booker, are some guys that come to mind... Derozan too. I think his injury and the fact he doesn't fit as well with that Cavs team now could push his value down to the 15m- ish per year range and in the right situation his volume could be valuable.

Just spitballing.

 

[LoPo]

This is more realistic and has an actual long term future:

Rudy, Conley and Rudy Gay
for
Collins, Capella and Huerter

Atlanta wants to save on long term money. Although they spend more this coming year, they start saving over the long term as Trae and Hunter have new deals. Rudy and Trae make a fantastic tandem while Conley is great leadership off the bench for them.

Utah loses the best player in the trade but reloads with more youth and quality roster depth. We save enough money next year on this deal that it's conceivable that we avoid the luxury.

 

[SojoDave]

I think the Jazz FO has a huge challenge. Even our tradeable players aren't going to be easy to move. If we do blow the team up, it could be a long time before we are in contention. Just ask the Sacramento Kings. I would be surprised if we make huge changes. I don't know if Ryan Smith bought the team so he could suffer through a long rebuild.

 

[NUMBERICA]

All depends on what you can get for Mitchell.

Can you get two starters, a lottery pick, and a good future first for him? Then maybe you rebuild around Gobert for a year or two and try it out.

If you can't, just blow it all up.

… 3rd option, just blow it up and bottom out for two+ years.

 

[416Klawzz]

Just a question who do you think Smith, Ainge and Wade rather build around Mitchell or Gobert?