Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we can get something out of Capela in a trade, I'm all for it. If we can clear enough salary to be able to use our full MLE I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Nurkic instead. If you have to go very cheap, bring back Hassan.

If Capela plays like he did last season, it's questionable if he's a starter. His FT shooting and finishing around the basket have fallen off where he's a sub par roll man and while the defense wasn't his fault, he's not a defensive anchor that's producing results.

I don't ultimately care how much "winning' value the Jazz get out of their C position if Rudy is gone. We're not winning anyways. If the FO would rather go cheap, I'm am incredibly in favor of that option if Capela can be dealt elsewhere.

The FO is trying to win though. They don't share your assessment if they trade Rudy (if the reports are remotely close to true). I don't need to have Capela in the deal but I don't see it as a major issue either. Going from Rudy to a cheap center and some iffy smallball options throws you to the 35 win territory real quick. Going from Rudy to Capela and adding in some interesting perimeter options gives you a chance. You end up in the 45 win territory imo... maybe more if a guy "pops" or if Donovan improves.

Nurkic will get more than MLE from Portland... that is the territory Capela is in. Last year he wasn't great but I think it was partly injury related.

If the FO did share your sentiment then why keep Donovan around if we aren't doing any winning?

 

[KqWIN]

If we trade Rudy the goal is going to be to win. Why would we trade him for the sake of trading him if we weren’t going to try and win.

That's a good question. Why are we trading Rudy? If we're trying to win, it is a terrible idea to trade Rudy. But we're discussing a Rudy trade because it seems like it's an inevitability.

 

[LoPo]

I don't think anyone really wants Capela right now, at least the shouldn't. If he was a FA today, his contract might be 50% of what it is. That's why I'm looking at Capela as a negative that should bring us back more value from ATL. He's definitely not a Rudy replacement. Tricking yourself into thinking we can do the same things with Capela is a mistake.

I agree 100%.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't see us being successful with Capela....and simply getting paid more does make Capela better. I think if Capela was a FA today he'd be close to the "cheap" zone anyways. Probably a full MLE guy.

Cheap for Locke is like $5M in Robin Lopez though. I think if Clint hit the open market MLE would be probably close... 4 years $50M or 3 years $60M? Its not much different. I think the injury thing is legit for Clint. He could bounce back this year.

 

[Elizah Huge]

We aren’t doing the deal for Capela we are doing it for Collins and hopefully Hunter. Capela is to make the salary work and we need a center so it’s a win-win. Our entire defensive strategy is going to change next year. Capela won’t be in the Rudy role because that won’t be our defense and he couldn’t do that role anyways so it doesn’t matter.

 

[KqWIN]

The FO is trying to win though. They don't share your assessment if they trade Rudy (if the reports are remotely close to true). I don't need to have Capela in the deal but I don't see it as a major issue either. Going from Rudy to a cheap center and some iffy smallball options throws you to the 35 win territory real quick. Going from Rudy to Capela and adding in some interesting perimeter options gives you a chance. You end up in the 45 win territory imo... maybe more if a guy "pops" or if Donovan improves.

Nurkic will get more than MLE from Portland... that is the territory Capela is in. Last year he wasn't great but I think it was partly injury related.

If the FO did share your sentiment then why keep Donovan around if we aren't doing any winning?

Like I said, if the FO does not want Capela I am fully on board. I never said that they wouldn't want him or it isn't realistic that they would want him. We're talking about Locke not wanting Capela, and I'm in total agreement with that.

Even in "win now" mode, I'd rather shift Capela around if the right deal is available. Going cheap isn't ideal at C like you said, but I think it's better than going fairly expensive at C with Capela. I don't want to be the team penciling in Capela as our starting C thinking he's solid for the next three years. Let someone else get caught holding the bag.

Also, I may be totally out of the loop here, but I'm not entirely sure what the "injury" issues were. He was on my fantasy team all year and he barely missed time. I know he had a knee injury in the play in, but that didn't effect him all season. Even in the season prior, he was not close to the rim finisher he was in HOU and I do wonder what it will be like when he's not playing with a mega-elite playmaker.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Is it fair to say that Capela is a Top 10 Center in the league? I just see him playing the same type of role that Steven Adams did for Memphis - great anchor for regular season success, but matchups in the playoffs can take him off the floor.

No... I haven't lined them up but I'd say he's closer to top 20. He's a starting caliber center. Adams is a solid player tier for him. It isn't ideal to pay him 20M but if you said he we are going to go the Plumlee or Khem Birch route I don't see a way to use that $10-14M delta in salaries to improve the roster around the cheap option.

Capela is quite a bit better than Plumlee, Birch, Robin Lopez type of player. If they gave close to full MLE to Hartenstein he might be better than Clint if he develops a bit more... but he's not been a 30 minute a night dude so its a risk... again how are you using the $10M delta in salaries to benefit the team?

 

[Elizah Huge]

Maybe we could flip Capela/16 for Turner. I’m not sure Indiana does it but who knows.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Like I said, if the FO does not want Capela I am fully on board. I never said that they wouldn't want him or it isn't realistic that they would want him. We're talking about Locke not wanting Capela, and I'm in total agreement with that.

Even in "win now" mode, I'd rather shift Capela around if the right deal is available. Going cheap isn't ideal at C like you said, but I think it's better than going fairly expensive at C with Capela. I don't want to be the team penciling in Capela as our starting C thinking he's solid for the next three years. Let someone else get caught holding the bag.

Also, I may be totally out of the loop here, but I'm not entirely sure what the "injury" issues were. He was on my fantasy team all year and he barely missed time. I know he had a knee injury in the play in, but that didn't effect him all season. Even in the season prior, he was not close to the rim finisher he was in HOU and I do wonder what it will be like when he's not playing with a mega-elite playmaker.

I believe its a heal achilles thing. Which would be concerning on its own of course. Conley had similar issues and has seemed to be fine.

If we can move him for something else then that's okay... I just think its weird for a guy like Locke to say "he's a poor man's Rudy" and then turn his nose at his salary. Are there more interesting options at center? Fo sho... Are we able to flip Capela for those options? Probably not. If Atlanta is desperate to do a Rudy deal and not include Capela then great. I just think if you don't take him then they send less other value... and the only beneficiary is going to be Ryan's wallet.

 

[jom2003]

Flexible, switchable players. Youth. Athleticism. It's not a "build around Don" as much as it is a "build around current playoff requirements."

This. So much about Rudy vs Don. But the truth is this roster isn't built for modern day basketball/playoff success regardless of who your top players are. Doesn't matter if you are building around Don, Rudy, Giannis, Embiid, Doncic or Joker. You will need 3D players that can guard multiple positions. Lots of them.

 

[jom2003]

That's a good question. Why are we trading Rudy? If we're trying to win, it is a terrible idea to trade Rudy. But we're discussing a Rudy trade because it seems like it's an inevitability.

Because prior management put ourselves in a tight spot where we don't have any meaningful assets for improvement. No picks + aging players with little value. Trading our best players in this case is the only way to get out of the rabbit hole.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe we could flip Capela/16 for Turner. I’m not sure Indiana does it but who knows.

I think that is a fair deal. I just think that we kind of need the draft pick to be good if we are going to have hope. I know the percentages and that it likely goes poorly. We aren't in a great position right now and need a pretty big win if the org is going to convince Donovan to stick around.

The Capela deals I think might be there that I'd like:

- Charlotte swaps Rozier for Capela to get a center. They have some salary concerns and its why you hear Hayward and Rozier for Westbrook type rumors. This helps balance the roster... Let me be clear... if I was the Hornets I wouldn't do this deal but I also wouldn't have overpaid Gordon.

- Depending on how concerned Chicago is with Ball's injury a Lonzo for Capela swap might work. They platoon center with Vuc and Clint... then they can let Vuc walk if the price ain't right.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And I get that taking Capela isn't ideal... I really do. I don't get the completely turning our noses at it like its dog ****. Its like on one side of the trade we are hyper focused on salary and the other we completely disregard it.

 

[KqWIN]

I believe its a heal achilles thing. Which would be concerning on its own of course. Conley had similar issues and has seemed to be fine.

If we can move him for something else then that's okay... I just think its weird for a guy like Locke to say "he's a poor man's Rudy" and then turn his nose at his salary. Are there more interesting options at center? Fo sho... Are we able to flip Capela for those options? Probably not. If Atlanta is desperate to do a Rudy deal and not include Capela then great. I just think if you don't take him then they send less other value... and the only beneficiary is going to be Ryan's wallet.

Yeah...that's just another one of those expressions that doesn't really mean anything. He is a poor man's Rudy in the sense that he plays the same role, but how poor are we talking here? I'm saying it's VERY poor and I do not want any part of that contract whether we are trying to still win or otherwise. Capela is a great rebounder, but he is no longer a good rim runner and isn't a strong defensive anchor either.

I'm definitely not telling ATL that we like Capela. Rather tell them we want Okogwu even if we know they won't give him up. We should treat Capela as negative value and expected extra value coming back. At the very least they've got to take on Rudy Gay.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Collins/Hunter is definitely a positive for this team. We all of a sudden become one of the more athletic teams in the league doing that.

Taking on Capela I'm hoping we can increase his trade value by the deadline, and start out with a big lineup of Capela/Whiteside/Udoka (fingers crossed)

Who knows though, Capela may thrive in our new coaches system, but he could also clog the paint.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think that is a fair deal. I just think that we kind of need the draft pick to be good if we are going to have hope. I know the percentages and that it likely goes poorly. We aren't in a great position right now and need a pretty big win if the org is going to convince Donovan to stick around.

The Capela deals I think might be there that I'd like:

- Charlotte swaps Rozier for Capela to get a center. They have some salary concerns and its why you hear Hayward and Rozier for Westbrook type rumors. This helps balance the roster... Let me be clear... if I was the Hornets I wouldn't do this deal but I also wouldn't have overpaid Gordon.

- Depending on how concerned Chicago is with Ball's injury a Lonzo for Capela swap might work. They platoon center with Vuc and Clint... then they can let Vuc walk if the price ain't right.

What do we do at Center in these scenarios though?

 

[KqWIN]

And I get that taking Capela isn't ideal... I really do. I don't get the completely turning our noses at it like its dog ****. Its like on one side of the trade we are hyper focused on salary and the other we completely disregard it.

Funny enough I think it's been the focus the other way. Everyone mentioning how expensive Rudy is, but there's been less mention that the players the Jazz would be getting back cost the same and would produce wayyy less wins. That's why I've always been firm that Rudy has strong value (especially if Collins-Capela is the core) and the Jazz should demand it from them. The Hawks shopping Collins perpetually doesn't help his value either. We've been throwing around Sabonis/Vucevic level hauls. I surely hope trader Danny does not settle for that.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Funny enough I think it's been the focus the other way. Everyone mentioning how expensive Rudy is, but there's been less mention that the players the Jazz would be getting back cost the same and would produce wayyy less wins. That's why I've always been firm that Rudy has strong value (especially if Collins-Capela is the core) and the Jazz should demand it from them. The Hawks shopping Collins perpetually doesn't help his value either. We've been throwing around Sabonis/Vucevic level hauls. I surely hope trader Danny does not settle for that.

I don’t know how you can say for certain that a combination of Collins/Hunter/Capela/16 wouldn’t produce more wins than Rudy. I just can’t fathom that line of thinking. Rudy is not Giannis.

 

[LoPo]

Maybe we could flip Capela/16 for Turner. I’m not sure Indiana does it but who knows.

I love it.

Dallas just got Wood for #26 and expirings. Maybe we could pull this off.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[whatthe]

I don’t know how you can say for certain that a combination of Collins/Hunter/Capela/16 wouldn’t produce more wins than Rudy. I just can’t fathom that line of thinking. Rudy is not Giannis.

Rudy has the best PER rating. Insanely productive on the offensive end. We are just getting junk for him in comparison. The advanced stats love Rudy and they hate all these players. It will be a step back according to the nerds.