I don't really consider something a bump if it's at the top of the page already.
That said, let us just walk away starting... nnnow.
Reasons you left the LDS church.
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
That said, let us just walk away starting... nnnow.
Hi.
Looks like the atheists want an "adiscussion" here. I've noticed that quite often. It offends some that people talk about something they, the wise noble policemen of human thought, dictate can't exist. Then argue we made it up in our own heads, so it cannot be a valid idea.
I've got some news for you. The same case can be argued for gravity. Let's stop talking about it because we don't know what it is, it has evaded our comprehension, and has broken all the rules we've given it. A more general case could be made for anything invented by man, even science.
Well, some have claimed "I think, therefore I am" as a validation of human existence. If we stop thinking when some wise authority says we must, it's pretty sure we will from then on have a lesser sort of existence.
The Jews and Romans of the time persecuted christians because their gods told them ite was the right thing to do, just like God is telling many Ugandans to kill practicing homosexuals.
Of course you do. However, you said nothing to indicate a genuine disagreement, or provide evidence for why you think it was untrue.
I talk about Star Trek occasionally, even thogh that universe can't exist. In general, I have no objection to talking about what does exist. If someone tells me they spoke to Captain kirk (as opposed to an actor), I'll still think they are mistaken. If they tell me I need to speak to Captain Kirk, I'll tell them they are mistaken.
Gravity has empirical effects, and we know it exists because of them.
GVC
Well-Known Member
The disparity between how much respect the average religious person demands and gives is startling (in my experience).
GVC
Well-Known Member
That is, there's no reason why I wouldn't want to believe. I'm no enemy of religion or people who believe in God. If it makes you happy, and doesn't hurt anyone else, go for it. I'd love to believe, like anyone else, that I'll live forever in a heavenly paradise with a bunch of really good friends who love each other, play lots of wicked board games together, share perfect food and lengthy warm embraces. Truly, I would. I tried to believe for a long time. I served an honest and faithful mission for the Mormon church, taught at the MTC, tried to be a good Mormon. For whatever reason, I just don't believe it's true, and my life has been a lot better since I accepted that reality and moved on.
But seriously, if someone actually told you that Captain Kirk existed, and that they talked to him, would you really look at them and say (or in this case, type) the things that you say here? Again, who gives a rats butt hole if he thinks he talked to James T.?
I think I'm an average religious person, and in fact, I really only demand that people leave my faith and my beliefs alone. Don't mock them. Don't disparage them. Don't generalize them. Don't demonize them.
In short, just don't be an *** hole. Seriously, is that really too much to ask?
My experience is that yes, indeed, it is commonplace for self-styled, or group-defined, "religious" folks to demand much more respect than they give. It is also commonplace for "non-religious" folks. But anyone who wants to be an "exemplar" of Christian virtures who does that is missing perhaps one of most important teachings of Jesus, in my opinion. And yes, I am/have been "commonplace" because it takes more effort not to be. A lot of Mormons, and believers in other religions do try to hold up their particular standards as an example to those who don't follow their ways. I even see "liberals" take that stand.
It's just a much better to try to expect more of yourself than you do of others. For one thing, you really can't do much about others, and you definitely can do something about yourself.
Jesus is definitely on record for teaching that we should focus on improving ourselves, and be willing to do good to others so far as we know or can. Patience, compassion, forgiveness. . . . a lot of the vaunted virtues seem to be directed outward towards others. . . .
I think the problem can be aggravated by demands from outside a faith that it should be compromised somehow. . . . . that's when the "us/them, good/bad, selflove/othershate" stuff comes into play to shore up weak believers' confidence in the way they are. But a lot of us shallow philosophers are just there because we haven't thought through our own beliefs.
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GVC
Well-Known Member
Of course. My hope is that people get past the initial aggravation, and realize that, yes, sometimes people disagree, and sometimes those disagreements lead to conflict, but it's important to not just dismiss the disagreement and count on being in the majority in settling the dispute. Sometimes it's beneficial to have a rational discussion because different people have different beliefs.
In real life, I've never had anyone tell me that I lacked a sense of morals or a reason to have morals because I am an atheist. In real life, no one leaves me notes telling me I'm relious when I say it is human nature to be moral. In the past five years, perhaps two real-life people (outside of missionaries) have asked me about my religious beliefs at all.
If someone was trying to direct science funding to create the warp drive (acording to our current understanding, it really is impossible), should I not give a rats butt hole about the diversion from more worthy projects? If tyhey try to teach warp drive theory in high school physics classes, should I not care about chioldren learning distorted science?
One of the things most of us learn in High School is that High School is NOT real life.
(I deleted a chunk here. . . . too mean.)
There might be a lot of kids who grew up thinking warp drives are as real as gravity, but more cool.
From among the minority who have become seriously disappointed to learn there aren't actually real warp drives on OEM shelves, there's gotta be more than a dozen basement inventors with prototypes they can explain. . . . to any interested high school teacher.
It would be a beautiful way to teach independent research to first teach the kids that warp drives are standard science, and challenge them to invent something better. . . . an exercise like would approximate the realities of science and prepare the student to do due diligence in believing anything. . . .
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Ah, how cute.
As a person of science, haven't you learned that it's folly to say anything is impossible? Way to avoid the question and move the topic elsewhere, by the way.
1) High-school kids are not prepared for the mathematics involved.
2) It is never a good a idea to teach someone somethying that is false, deliberately.
3) An exercise like that would teach them that teachers are deliberately misleading them.
I did qualify my statemen with "according to our current understanding". There may indeed be revolutionary paradigm ahead.
I did not intend to avoid the question, alothough I'm not sure which questin you meant. My point was that, when someone's belief in Captain Kirk afects me, because of their influence in education or science funding, then I feel I do have a legitimate interest.