2022 Annual Jazzfanz All Time NBA Draft

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I'm happy to take specific directive from @Thee Idiotic Minivan K on how we're determining winners but I kinda need that to move forward.

If we're doing a sim or sims and voting, then we need to have a clear-cut set of rules to determine a winner. If you're running one sim and a vote, you can have the results disagree, then what? I had mentioned running two sims and whichever team wins two of three of voting/sim 1/sim 2, but then we gotta figure out which sims (maybe this has occurred).

Another idea is that any vote that one team gets a 2/3 majority of votes bypasses the sims.

I personally think voting works alright and is simple enough. Sims sound like they might provide some quantitative foundation that could be useful, but balancing the benefits of sims vs. votes is sticky.

What do you idiots think about having the sim determine seeding for the vote? Someone else needs to run the sim though, thoughts?


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[NUMBERICA]

What do you idiots think about having the sim determine seeding for the vote? Someone else needs to run the sim though, thoughts?


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I think that is certainly a great role for the sim. Are you suggesting that after seeding, then head-to-head competition is strictly voting, or voting + sim (maybe running a sim if one team doesn't have, say, a 60% majority of votes as a "tie-breaker"?)?

And then which sim(s) are we using?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I freaking hate technology I just updated a bunch of picks in op then forgot to save I hate all you idiots now you choose to get active.

 

[LoPo]

I think that is certainly a great role for the sim. Are you suggesting that after seeding, then head-to-head competition is strictly voting, or voting + sim (maybe running a sim if one team doesn't have, say, a 60% majority of votes as a "tie-breaker"?)?

And then which sim(s) are we using?

I like sims over a popularity vote

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[Elizah Huge]

@Thee Idiotic Minivan K can you please update the first page?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I think that is certainly a great role for the sim. Are you suggesting that after seeding, then head-to-head competition is strictly voting, or voting + sim (maybe running a sim if one team doesn't have, say, a 60% majority of votes as a "tie-breaker"?)?

And then which sim(s) are we using?

Saying do a sim to determine seeding for the head to head votes

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

@Thee Idiotic Minivan K can you please update the first page?

I just did but forgot to save it. Give me a minute. This took me like 15 min before. My hell I’m an idiot, I’m bringing you idiots down with me. Domino knows the drill

 

[The Fresh Prince]

This needs to be in one of the OPs, whatever it is that we're doing. Fundamentally changes how one should approach team building.

Which sim? Do they take season into account? It has to be compatible with the structure of the competition.

I was running a 2k sim. Everything will run smooth. You get to provide minute distribution, lineups, etc.

Voting holds biased opinion. A lot of people on JF don't like volume shooters like TMac, AI, Pierce, Westbrook. A sim will give a more accurate determination.

 

[NUMBERICA]

How about this:
-Sim determines seeding (who was it that was suggesting something besides 2k?)
-head-to-head competition is determined by vote if a team can win 60% or more of the votes

-if neither team collects a 60% majority, then it is determined by sim​

​

@Thee Idiotic Minivan K @LoPo @Domino @Elizah Huge @Keefe @silesian @toddychurch @David Hume @Coach Ellis @FIVAS @nothingbutnet @Hornacekamania @gandalfe

 

[NUMBERICA]

I was running a 2k sim. Everything will run smooth. You get to provide minute distribution, lineups, etc.

Voting holds biased opinion. A lot of people on JF don't like volume shooters like TMac, AI, Pierce, Westbrook. A sim will give a more accurate determination.

I'm not sure it's more accurate. I think qualitative analysis is incredibly important in these things. Quantitative analysis would tell you that the 2004, 2012, and 2022 Lakers would've all been top-5 teams all-time (instead of some of the most disappointing teams of all time).

Both quantitative and qualitative analysis can be gamed in different ways. Finding a way to do both probably brings out the best of both and mitigates the worst of both.

Does the 2k sim do specific seasons for players selected?

 

[Domino]

I like sims over a popularity vote

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Yeah in votes you could have an amazing player that people don’t like and you lose because of that


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[The Fresh Prince]

Saying do a sim to determine seeding for the head to head votes

I'm running a full season. It won't take long. I could sim a full season in 10 minutes or less if I wanted to. I can also run 3-5 year franchise-like simulation.

I plan on making the sim thread after the draft so people can provide lineups and minute distribution.

I want everyone to get the most out of their team. I don't really want to make this a one and done thing, especially with the time invested.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

I'm not sure it's more accurate. I think qualitative analysis is incredibly important in these things. Quantitative analysis would tell you that the 2004, 2012, and 2022 Lakers would've all been top-5 teams all-time (instead of some of the most disappointing teams of all time).

Both quantitative and qualitative analysis can be gamed in different ways. Finding a way to do both probably brings out the best or both and mitigates the worst of both.

Does the 2k sim do specific seasons for players selected?

Basically it has the prime version of a classic player available, but there's also classic teams for specific players. Like the 97-98 Jazz, 95 Bulls.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

@NUMBERICA and @Elizah Huge have agreed to a trade that involves swapping draft picks, sources tell ESPN.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

I'm not sure it's more accurate. I think qualitative analysis is incredibly important in these things. Quantitative analysis would tell you that the 2004, 2012, and 2022 Lakers would've all been top-5 teams all-time (instead of some of the most disappointing teams of all time).

Both quantitative and qualitative analysis can be gamed in different ways. Finding a way to do both probably brings out the best of both and mitigates the worst of both.

Does the 2k sim do specific seasons for players selected?

But 2k has every players tendencies and percentages that brings the realism to the game. They also carry advanced analytics. Per request, I'll provide full analytical data to somebody that wants to see stats on their team.

I'll also post the league leaders, all stars, awards. It will add a lot of fun to this draft, trust me. You'll get to see the full potential of your team, and how well they work together.

 

[NUMBERICA]

How about this:
-Sim determines seeding (who was it that was suggesting something besides 2k?)
-head-to-head competition is determined by vote if a team can win 60% or more of the votes

-if neither team collects a 60% majority, then it is determined by sim​

​

@Thee Idiotic Minivan K @LoPo @Domino @Elizah Huge @Keefe @silesian @toddychurch @David Hume @Coach Ellis @FIVAS @nothingbutnet @Hornacekamania @gandalfe

I like this:
-keeps the tradition of how we normally do this alive while
-giving an opportunity for less voter bias by giving some power to the sim if the vote isn't resoundingly clear

 

[NUMBERICA]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

@NUMBERICA and @Elizah Huge have agreed to a trade that involves swapping draft picks, sources tell ESPN.

Shams is reporting that there are kinks in the deal to work out and that a deal is close, but that it may not close.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

I like this:
-keeps the tradition of how we normally do this alive while
-giving an opportunity for less voter bias by giving some power to the sim if the vote isn't resoundingly clear

Idk man. Like with a simulation 2k will know every players abilities more than people on JazzFanz.

That especially is true to people who don't know specific players from the 70s, 80s, 90s. The voting "who wins what matchups" is going to slow things down.

I can run an 82 game season, no injuries selected, every bodies suggested lineups, minutes distributed and we'll get far more accurate results. Voting can become a little fixed, like a boxing match. Lol.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

@NUMBERICA and @Elizah Huge have agreed to a trade that involves swapping draft picks, sources tell ESPN.

I am sending 85, 108, and 140

for

Eliza's 82, 118, and 150

confirm @Elizah Huge
@Thee Idiotic Minivan K

 

[NUMBERICA]

Idk man. Like with a simulation 2k will know every players abilities more than people on JazzFanz.

That especially is true to people who don't know specific players from the 70s, 80s, 90s. The voting "who wins what matchups" is going to slow things down.

I can run an 82 game season, no injuries selected, every bodies suggested lineups, minutes distributed and we'll get far more accurate results. Voting can become a little fixed, like a boxing match. Lol.

I know what you mean, that's why I'm suggesting both. Voting keeps people engaged, makes for good discussions, and provides a qualitative analysis that I think simulations would struggle with.