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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

MT Steve said:
To be fair Lopo, you yourself have literally admitted that you dog on Gobert here because of other people here praising him so much.
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@LogGrad98

Now will you just shut up? This is what Steve said which is a lie.

I never dogged on Rudy because people were praising him. I dogged on Rudy because he was being given credit for everything good, and not being held responsible for anything bad.
 
LoPo said:
@LogGrad98

Now will you just shut up? This is what Steve said which is a lie.

I never dogged on Rudy because people were praising him. I dogged on Rudy because he was being given credit for everything good, and not being held responsible for anything bad.
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Um, ok. No spin there. No way that "being given credit for everything" could be conflated with "praising". Nowhere near the same thing. Ok then. Carry on.

To be fair you did say you were purposely trolling to counterbalance the apologists. Apparently apologist is far different from praise. We can just agree to disagree.

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LoPo said:
We could be the surprise team in the west if we just tinker with what we already have. We have talent. We have potential.

No reason to tear it down just to lose on purpose just to have a 14% chance of winning the lottery.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
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Actually, it’s a 40% chance at a top 3 pick. . .

Which would’ve been good enough for
22 - Keegan Murray/Jaden Ivey/Benedict Mathurin
21 - Evan Mobley/Scottie Barnes/Franz Wagner
20 - LaMelo Ball/Tyrese Haliburton
19 - Darius Garland
18 - Luka Doncic/Trae Young
17 - Jayson Tatum/Donovan Mitchell
16 - Jaylen Brown
14 - Joel Embiid/Marcus Smart

There’s definitely luck and skill involved in drafting that high up, but the reward when you get it right is worth the risk.
 
One Brow said:
Curry was on an All-NBA team in his fifth year (was 17th in voting during his fourth), and started getting votes for MVP by his fourth year. Mitchell is not even close to that.
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Mitchell has been in the top 23 of All NBA voting the last four seasons (so every season but his rookie year when he was in the top 33).

Curry did get a few MVP votes prior to Don, but he also didn't get any All NBA attention until his 4th year in the league. By his 5th year, when he had Iggy, Klay Thompson and Draymond in tow, he made an All NBA Team.

But this is a hell of a lot more comparable than Don to Monta Ellis.
 
LogGrad98 said:
No doubt he is a competitor, he will lay it all out on the floor, and give the new coach and the team and the front office hell if it is obvious we are just tanking.

I really wish Mitchell were 1/2 the competitor Bev is. We would have likely advanced this year and last.
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Would’ve loved to see him added to the team that knocked the Thunder out of the playoffs. Adding Pat Beverley to that group instead of blowing it up would’ve been fun.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Um, ok. No spin there. No way that "being given credit for everything" could be conflated with "praising". Nowhere near the same thing. Ok then. Carry on.

To be fair you did say you were purposely trolling to counterbalance the apologists. Apparently apologist is far different from praise. We can just agree to disagree.

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Whatever you need your definitions to be for your argument - I know what I said, and you should have known what I meant.

It's pretty damn clear. I praised Rudy and I criticized Rudy. I never attacked him especially just because guys were praising him.
 
Coach Ellis said:
Actually, it’s a 40% chance at a top 3 pick. . .

Which would’ve been good enough for
22 - Keegan Murray/Jaden Ivey/Benedict Mathurin
21 - Evan Mobley/Scottie Barnes/Franz Wagner
20 - LaMelo Ball/Tyrese Haliburton
19 - Darius Garland
18 - Luka Doncic/Trae Young
17 - Jayson Tatum/Donovan Mitchell
16 - Jaylen Brown
14 - Joel Embiid/Marcus Smart

There’s definitely luck and skill involved in drafting that high up, but the reward when you get it right is worth the risk.
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Not to mention - it's multiple 40% changes at a top 3 picks plus a **** ton of other draft assets. Striking gold in the draft 1-3 times over the next 5-7 years is almost a certainty with the amount of high quality picks we'd likely have.
 
Coach Ellis said:
Actually, it’s a 40% chance at a top 3 pick. . .

Which would’ve been good enough for
22 - Keegan Murray/Jaden Ivey/Benedict Mathurin
21 - Evan Mobley/Scottie Barnes/Franz Wagner
20 - LaMelo Ball/Tyrese Haliburton
19 - Darius Garland
18 - Luka Doncic/Trae Young
17 - Jayson Tatum/Donovan Mitchell
16 - Jaylen Brown
14 - Joel Embiid/Marcus Smart

There’s definitely luck and skill involved in drafting that high up, but the reward when you get it right is worth the risk.
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There are examples of good draft picks all over the draft. And the analytics would suggest that those are the exception, particularly once you get below the 3rd pick. Hope we get a good pick or two and hope they end up great but those are the exception.
 
LoPo said:
Admit what? This proves nothing. I never attacked Rudy because he got praised.

I went after Rudy because he never was held accountable for anything by his fans on here. He wasn't perfect despite many on here trying to make it seem like he was.
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I never attacked him because he got praised! I attacked him because people were saying too much good stuff about him!


Lol.
 
gomretat said:
There are examples of good draft picks all over the draft. And the analytics would suggest that those are the exception, particularly once you get below the 3rd pick. Hope we get a good pick or two and hope they end up great but those are the exception.
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My point was simply that you have to scout well, but getting a top 3 pick means every single one of those players was available. I didn’t include #1 and #2 picks. Just 3+. Jazz have to be a bottom 4 team to get those odds, but that’s what it takes to get a pick like that.

It’s not as simple as hoping for a 14% chance at the #1 pick - while that would be nice - you have to get a top 3 pick (usually) for the franchise changing players.
 
Good scouting, being aggressive and getting lucky helps too. Jazz had all three of those things happen when they traded up with Denver for both Mitchell and Gobert.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
I can post the numbers comparing Curry to Mitchell again, but they were ignored with the argument of do the research and look at the numbers.
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Donovan Mitchell averaged 23.9 points, 4.5 assists and 4.2 rebounds in 345 games in his first 5 seasons.
Donovan Mitchell averaged 28.3 points, 4.9 rebounds and 4.7 assists in 39 games in the playoffs in his first 5 playoffs.

Stephen Curry averaged 20.3 points, 6.7 assists and 4.1 rebounds in 336 games in his first 5 seasons.
Stephen Curry averaged 23.3 points, 8.2 assists and 3.7 rebounds in 19 games in the playoffs in his first 2 playoffs (he didn't make the playoffs his first 3 seasons).
 
Counting stats is your argument?

In 1985 Mike Mitchell and Kareem Abdul Jabbar averaged 22 points per game. Five year stretches are similarly arbitrary.

Advanced numbers show the two are no where near each other in how they achieved those numbers.
 
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