What's new
By:

Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

KqWIN said:
My guy, I said just because everyone here says it's a bad trade does not mean it was a rogue decision. I never said that makes it wasn't a bad trade lmao. The forum has no reason to think it's a good trade because they are not the one's seeing the benefits. You said it yourself. If you were the one saving the money, or getting paid by the person saving the money it would be different. Those people aren't on ****ing Jazzfans. And again, this does NOT mean it was a good trade because Ryan gets an extra nice golf trip.
Click to expand...

It wasn’t even the best money saving move available that’s the sad part. We can’t even save money correctly.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I just wanna kinda re-center on the true worst deal of the offseason, which was for THT.

You wanna talk about moves that save money? Let's talk about a "deal" that flushes money down the crapper. That THT deal was a ****ing disaster.
Click to expand...
On the topic of the most powerful people just kinda making mostly-unilateral moves:
-Ryan writes the checks. He saw what Bogey's market alone was and probably thought his deal was an opportunity to take back 80% of his salary for cash and told Ainge to go hunting, so Ainge found an old pet.
-Ainge either got swindled in a pre-cursor effort at the Lakers picks in a later deal, or he actually just is hard for THT. We'll likely never know the exact truth. If it's that the Jazz made a basketball decision, I have the toughest time believing that more than a weirdo or two looks at THT and is like "Damn, this dude that can't play off the ball, shoot, or defend and hence can't really play in a good lineup and is gonna put $11 million on the cap next year is *chef's kiss*". So, yeah, I just believe that in the case where THT was acquired for basketball reasons that there was some unilateral determinations being made.
 
NUMBERICA said:
-Ainge either got swindled in a pre-cursor effort at the Lakers picks in a later deal, or he actually just is hard for THT. We'll likely never know the exact truth. If it's that the Jazz made a basketball decision, I have the toughest time believing that more than a weirdo or two looks at THT and is like "Damn, this dude that can't play off the ball, shoot, or defend and hence can't really play in a good lineup and is gonna put $11 million on the cap next year is *chef's kiss*". So, yeah, I just believe that in the case where THT was acquired for basketball reasons that there was some unilateral determinations being made.
Click to expand...
Let us not forget that Ainge had just pulled off one of the biggest returns in NBA history with Gobert, and somehow got a pick for Royce AND got off the contract outright. He earned himself a treat (besides being alternate governor already).
 
The THT trade to me is inexplicable because I think THT truly sucks and his contract is a negative.

KO makes some sense because:

- His contract is kind of expiring if we want space.
- He balances the roster positionally.
- He is a good pro that should help the young guys progress.

Some side benefits of the deal I can see being appealing:

- The money
- Doing right by Bogey... he wants an extension... he likely didn't want to come into camp and be in limbo. Detroit has infinity cap space... I could see an extension at some point. So it likely helps him out a bit.


I think the big thing here is just the Lakers are dumb and we had them in our sights with the Bogey package. We really should have held off with the Bev trade even if they did a deal with the Pacers to send out THT. Lakers really should have valued Bogey more. Phoenix given their current issues should have put a real first up (maybe we should have given in on Vando too). I would have done a deal for Duncan Robinson for Bogey if we got a first but I understand the team hesitating on that deal.

The big issue I had with both deals is you absolutely should have walked away with second round picks. Can absolutely use those picks to offload the unwanted salary of Rudy Gay right now. It was like we didn't have time to get to that part of the discussion and just said eff it.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I wonder if Indiana would have taken Bogey into their cap space for a second round pick. That would have been better than the Olynyk trade (how sad is that).
Click to expand...

We had 17 guaranteed contracts at the time. We’d be down to 16 and simultaneously saved 19.5M in salary. While also making the team significantly worse.
 
Elizah Huge said:
We had 17 guaranteed contracts at the time. We’d be down to 16 and simultaneously saved 19.5M in salary. While also making the team significantly worse.
Click to expand...
I think they end up joining the great tank race in full. Not sure they want to add talent. Now had we negotiated harder with LA and Det and came away with some seconds we could likely dump Rudy Gay into their space.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think they end up joining the great tank race in full. Not sure they want to add talent. Now had we negotiated harder with LA and Det and came away with some seconds we could likely dump Rudy Gay into their space.
Click to expand...

That would be logical but they tried to sign Ayton and played hardball with the Lakers.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The THT trade to me is inexplicable because I think THT truly sucks and his contract is a negative.

KO makes some sense because:

- His contract is kind of expiring if we want space.
- He balances the roster positionally.
- He is a good pro that should help the young guys progress.

Some side benefits of the deal I can see being appealing:

- The money
- Doing right by Bogey... he wants an extension... he likely didn't want to come into camp and be in limbo. Detroit has infinity cap space... I could see an extension at some point. So it likely helps him out a bit.


I think the big thing here is just the Lakers are dumb and we had them in our sights with the Bogey package. We really should have held off with the Bev trade even if they did a deal with the Pacers to send out THT. Lakers really should have valued Bogey more. Phoenix given their current issues should have put a real first up (maybe we should have given in on Vando too). I would have done a deal for Duncan Robinson for Bogey if we got a first but I understand the team hesitating on that deal.

The big issue I had with both deals is you absolutely should have walked away with second round picks. Can absolutely use those picks to offload the unwanted salary of Rudy Gay right now. It was like we didn't have time to get to that part of the discussion and just said eff it.
Click to expand...

A) I think Ainge may like THT as a young (21 y.o.) prospect who might have an interesting skillset.
B) The Lakers may have been the only team that wanted to trade neutral value for Pat Beverly.
 
Elizah Huge said:
That would be logical but they tried to sign Ayton and played hardball with the Lakers.
Click to expand...
I think if they got Ayton its a different story... but now they likely think they can get a good pick for Turner and they may value Hield. His contract descends and isn't like they can use their money on much else. They think LA should give up two picks for Turner/Hield... fact that it saves LA like $40-50M or some **** is also pretty appealing.

I just think the Lakers are dumb. Even their cap space plan next year is crazy flawed. To get to 35M in space they waive all the cap holds and don't do any deals that add money for the next year to sign a below max FA? Okay sweet plan Rob. Even if they wanted to use their picks in trade after signing that FA how exactly you going to do that without any outgoing salary... you moving AD?

LA should have gone to Indiana or Utah and made a deal to fill out the roster and hopefully compete. Instead they doing the pre-season Russ stuff... I'm sure this is the year he figures it out.
 
Between the ****** cap math on going over the tax, the NAW deal, and many other issues, how much of Ryan’s money could have been saved by a few JFCers volunteering a couple hours of their time?
 
infection said:
What do you mean? We’re only paying NAW $5M this year instead of Joe Ingles’ monster salary.
Click to expand...

And we will only be paying Olynyk 3M next year (wouldn’t be surprised if we picked his option up) instead of Bogey’s massive salary.
 
Elizah Huge said:
And we will only be paying Olynyk 3M next year (wouldn’t be surprised if we picked his option up) instead of Bogey’s massive salary.
Click to expand...
Nobody will ever be able to convince me that Royce gets you a first rounder and no returning salary while Bogey only gets you Olynyk’s contract.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
A) I think Ainge may like THT as a young (21 y.o.) prospect who might have an interesting skillset.
B) The Lakers may have been the only team that wanted to trade neutral value for Pat Beverly.
Click to expand...
A - he sucks
B- you could just cut Bev if he was an issue... it would be better than paying $10M to THT when we are hoping to use cap space in meaningful ways.

Someone liked THT obviously but when you look at the salary, the player, and the roster crunch... its awfully hard to say its worth it. THT wasn't neutral value... he was a liability.

He's always been a thicc boi, but man... he looked extra thiccc yesterday and not in a good way.
 
infection said:
Between the ****** cap math on going over the tax, the NAW deal, and many other issues, how much of Ryan’s money could have been saved by a few JFCers volunteering a couple hours of their time?
Click to expand...
I don't know that I could fix what we got for Joe... but I am more convinced than ever that we could have saved DL from effing up the cap math the offseason we signed Favors.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't know that I could fix what we got for Joe... but I am more convinced than ever that we could have saved DL from effing up the cap math the offseason we signed Favors.
Click to expand...
Let Joe expire. Maybe that alone gives you the comfort of being able to hold on to Bogey long enough to get a better return. Or at least something better than additional salary next season. Of course you could point to not being over the tax this year and therefore the $13M saved last year was real savings, but that’s really just a hindsight bias now that we’ve traded away our entire team.
 
infection said:
Let Joe expire. Maybe that alone gives you the comfort of being able to hold on to Bogey long enough to get a better return. Or at least something better than additional salary next season. Of course you could point to not being over the tax this year and therefore the $13M saved last year was real savings, but that’s really just a hindsight bias now that we’ve traded away our entire team.
Click to expand...
I think they kinda knew it was over though. At very least they knew a Gobert trade was happening that would save them some money and allow us to pay off the NAW credit card balance. If they wanted some additional breathing room from the tax they could waive and stretch Gay or NAW and they'd have some flexibility.

I think they really wanted KO (the money wasn't bad of course). I think if that is the case they should have squeezed a second or made them eat Rudy's salary. Given Bogey's market was cool at the time I do think holding on to him may have been a solid option... even if he wouldn't have like it. I do think KO is kind of like rolling over the asset a little. Worse player but still could be a trade asset and an interesting piece for a contender if he's playing well. The small guarantee is nice if the acquirer wants the flexibility to keep him. IDK... I just don't hate the deal as much as the THT deal. As long as we still suck the KO deal isn't a catastrophe. Its a C- deal... the THT is an F.

I think Bogey is perpetually under-rated and Suns/Lakers and a number of other teams should have been really moving to acquire him. I think a few contenders effed up.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think they kinda knew it was over though. At very least they knew a Gobert trade was happening that would save them some money and allow us to pay off the NAW credit card balance. If they wanted some additional breathing room from the tax they could waive and stretch Gay or NAW and they'd have some flexibility.

I think they really wanted KO (the money wasn't bad of course). I think if that is the case they should have squeezed a second or made them eat Rudy's salary. Given Bogey's market was cool at the time I do think holding on to him may have been a solid option... even if he wouldn't have like it. I do think KO is kind of like rolling over the asset a little. Worse player but still could be a trade asset and an interesting piece for a contender if he's playing well. The small guarantee is nice if the acquirer wants the flexibility to keep him. IDK... I just don't hate the deal as much as the THT deal. As long as we still suck the KO deal isn't a catastrophe. Its a C- deal... the THT is an F.

I think Bogey is perpetually under-rated and Suns/Lakers and a number of other teams should have been really moving to acquire him. I think a few contenders effed up.
Click to expand...
I think you’re giving it a C- because you’re favoring THT as an F. THT deal is terrible, for sure. But if you get a 40% in a class, it’s still the same F as someone who got 60%, even if they are fairly far apart. They were both Fs. Different percentiles of bad but both Fs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top