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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Saint Cy of JFC said:
He definitely isnt a better fit next to Lauri. He's a better fit next to Kessler than Vando is, but not Vando to Lauri.
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Baring this season where he isn't doing much, which is why he needs a change of pace.
He spaces the floor better which opens up things for Lauri. He can create for himself and others which helps Lauri. I think his rebounding and defense is more consistent. The only thing Vando helps with more is his hustle and that he needs less touches. But we don't have a shortage of touches and he wouldn't take the ball away from him much if any. He also is a player they can let off each other. Lauri can be the ball handler in pick and roll sometimes he needs a dynamic guy big to do with. Vando is a good player but, at least at this point of his career, is a guy who should come off the bench and hustle.

Besides it's looking more like Kessler will move to starter. You can't consistently play 2 non shooters next to Lauri.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Baring this season where he isn't doing much, which is why he needs a change of pace.
He spaces the floor better which opens up things for Lauri. He can create for himself and others which helps Lauri. I think his rebounding and defense is more consistent. The only thing Vando helps with more is his hustle and that he needs less touches. But we don't have a shortage of touches and he wouldn't take the ball away from him much if any. He also is a player they can let off each other. Lauri can be the ball handler in pick and roll sometimes he needs a dynamic guy big to do with. Vando is a good player but, at least at this point of his career, is a guy who should come off the bench and hustle.

Besides it's looking more like Kessler will move to starter. You can't consistently play 2 non shooters next to Lauri.
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Vando's scoring threat is pretty mediocre, so he doesnt get to fully showcase it, but his passing/decision making has been really good. He fits the team's passing identity.

When the team evolves, Vando could still be a perfect fit, especially if he's able to add a modicum of scoring ability.

Jazz will eventually have better scorers around Vando/Lauri. Conley/Clarkson/Olynyk will all be replaced sooner or later in the starting lineup. If you can get another floor spacer at the 5 (maybe Victor, we can dream), Vando can be a perfect fit.

Hell maybe Walker will start shooting 3's.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Vando's scoring threat is pretty mediocre, so he doesnt get to fully showcase it, but his passing/decision making has been really good. He fits the team's passing identity.

When the team evolves, Vando could still be a perfect fit, especially if he's able to add a modicum of scoring ability.

Jazz will eventually have better scorers around Vando/Lauri. Conley/Clarkson/Olynyk will all be replaced sooner or later in the starting lineup. If you can get another floor spacer at the 5 (maybe Victor, we can dream), Vando can be a perfect fit.

Hell maybe Walker will start shooting 3's.
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I am really skeptical Walker will shoot threes. He really needs to make his free throw stroke more compact... Just don't see him extending his range and wouldn't have him spending a ton of time working on it until he fixes that ft shooting.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Vando's scoring threat is pretty mediocre, so he doesnt get to fully showcase it, but his passing/decision making has been really good. He fits the team's passing identity.

When the team evolves, Vando could still be a perfect fit, especially if he's able to add a modicum of scoring ability.

Jazz will eventually have better scorers around Vando/Lauri. Conley/Clarkson/Olynyk will all be replaced sooner or later in the starting lineup. If you can get another floor spacer at the 5 (maybe Victor, we can dream), Vando can be a perfect fit.

Hell maybe Walker will start shooting 3's.
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Those are lots of big ifs.
 
I would do THT + Azubuike + Gay + a second round pick for Collins.

The Hawks save 2 years of bad contracts, get rid of a guy they don't want, and replace him with our trash.

I think Collins would fill Gay and THTs minutes quite well albeit with a big price tag. Sounds like Trader Danny business.

If they don't want all of those contracts back then go Gay, Azubuike, and the Gobert TPE plus a late first or second for Collins.

At the least, it would be entertaining. He is an athlete and I think would upgrade our size, length, and physicality.

But I am not trading KO or Vando for him.
 
HermanG said:
I dont know what you mean... We literally dont have 4s. Thats why Rudy Gay plays so much. KO is also not exactly an allaround player. We also have only 1 forward who is a legit threat to attack the paint (Lauri)... Beasley, Fontecchio etc are more perimeter catch and shoot guys. I have some hope for Vando at 4 though.

At guard we got NAW, Sexton and THT behind Conley and Clarkson. Id like to see better defense and more playmaking from our backcourt, but forward depth is a way more pressing need.

Word is Collins hasnt been traded because Schlenk actually didnt want to trade him and was asking the moon and heavens. He might come on a discount now.
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No we have two 4's in Lauri and Vando. What we don't have are 3's.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
I would do THT + Azubuike + Gay + a second round pick for Collins.

The Hawks save 2 years of bad contracts, get rid of a guy they don't want, and replace him with our trash.

I think Collins would fill Gay and THTs minutes quite well albeit with a big price tag. Sounds like Trader Danny business.

If they don't want all of those contracts back then go Gay, Azubuike, and the Gobert TPE plus a late first or second for Collins.

At the least, it would be entertaining. He is an athlete and I think would upgrade our size, length, and physicality.

But I am not trading KO or Vando for him.
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I could get behind this, but anything that taps into our premier assets, like our trove of firsts, just for Collins is a non-starter imo.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
And all worth holding out for at least this year to see what happens in the draft. I just dont see any rush to get John Collins now. He's not worth the "discount" unless they are throwing in pick compensation.
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The more I have looked at it the more I am coming around to a similar conclusion. Trading for Collins starts to lock us in a bit and we need to remain fluid. This draft we will bring in some key pieces so we need to have some fluidity. Dude has been on the trade block forever so we know he isn't a hot commodity (even if we don't know the asking price). I think to make the move to solve their problems they need to pony up a pick... so JC and the Kings pick they own... or their own pick in 23 for KO/Vando/Gay will be considered... but otherwise they can shop elsewhere.

They should be able to do better somewhere else but who knows what the other offers are. Nets can offer Harris and a pick... doesn't solve the cap crunch... Wiz can offer Kuzma... he can bolt at year end but gets some money off the books... Indiana is the interesting one. They don't have to match salary since they are under the cap... so it could be like Duarte for Collins if they wanted... or like Jalen Smith for Collins. I think Indiana is probably the best fit with Tyrese and a rim protecting/shooting center.
 
sip said:
No we have two 4's in Lauri and Vando. What we don't have are 3's.
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Ehm.. based on what? Historical SF stereotypes?

Vando literally played his first minutes at 4 two games ago and that was due to KO injury, while Lauri hasnt played as PF since his Bulls days.

We literally run KO and Gay at 4. Its our oldest and weakest position. Kessler and Vando rigorously split at 5, and Lauri, Beasley and Fontecchio have played 3.
 
HermanG said:
Ehm.. based on what? Historical SF stereotypes?

Vando literally played his first minutes at 4 two games ago and that was due to KO injury, while Lauri hasnt played as PF since his Bulls days.

We literally run KO and Gay at 4. Its our oldest and weakest position. Kessler and Vando rigorously split at 5, and Lauri, Beasley and Fontecchio have played 3.
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Positions are fluid... but in general the rule is you are what you defend. In that case Vando ends up on more wings and guards... but is definitely playing center on offense. KO is guarding centers... Lauri is guarding 4s, 5s, and sometimes 3s. The ideal position for both Vando and Lauri is at the 4... maybe KO too.

I would say we have a bunch of guys suited to play the 4 ideally... and not many that are traditional SF types. Beasley is more a SG... but stuff is so fluid it doesn't matter all that much. I would say we lack a SF archetype more than a PF archetype regardless of where players have logged time.
 
Jazz in: John Collins/2023 Phoenix 1st
Jazz out: Jarred Vanderbilt/Kelly Olynyk/Rudy Gay

Suns in: Jarred Vanderbilt/Rudy Gay
Suns out: Jae Crowder/2023 1st

Hawks in: Jae Crowder/Kelly Olynyk
Hawks out: John Collins

Salary is about as close to matching as you’ll ever get in a three-team deal. Thoughts?
 
Elizah Huge said:
Jazz in: John Collins/2023 Phoenix 1st
Jazz out: Jarred Vanderbilt/Kelly Olynyk/Rudy Gay

Suns in: Jarred Vanderbilt/Rudy Gay
Suns out: Jae Crowder/2023 1st

Hawks in: Jae Crowder/Kelly Olynyk
Hawks out: John Collins

Thoughts?
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I like where your head is at not sure that the suns do that deal. It is not the worst. If the Jazz get Collins and a FRP danny would be elevated to a basketball god.
 
Chargers Jazz Angels said:
I like where your head is at not sure that the suns do that deal. It is not the worst. If the Jazz get Collins and a FRP danny would be elevated to a basketball god.
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Suns would absolutely do it without the pick and maybe they would with the pick not sure. I’d do it without the pick anyways.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Positions are fluid... but in general the rule is you are what you defend. In that case Vando ends up on more wings and guards... but is definitely playing center on offense. KO is guarding centers... Lauri is guarding 4s, 5s, and sometimes 3s. The ideal position for both Vando and Lauri is at the 4... maybe KO too.

I would say we have a bunch of guys suited to play the 4 ideally... and not many that are traditional SF types. Beasley is more a SG... but stuff is so fluid it doesn't matter all that much. I would say we lack a SF archetype more than a PF archetype regardless of where players have logged time.
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My perspective is completely opposite. With man defense positional assignments dont matter.. matchups do.

But you are right that things are more fluid so these historical designations are partially rubbish.

However if you try to suggest that Lauri should go to weak side corner instead of playing next to the primary ballhandler, I respectfully disagree. Or that Vando should play closer to the ball.

Lauri is a wing, and has been a wing since he left the bulls. Or a stretch 5. But not 4... at least not primarily.
 
HermanG said:
My perspective is completely opposite. With man defense positional assignments dont matter.. matchups do.

But you are right that things are more fluid so these historical designations are partially rubbish.

However if you try to suggest that Lauri should go to weak side corner instead of playing next to the primary ballhandler, I respectfully disagree. Or that Vando should play closer to the ball.

Lauri is a wing, and has been a wing since he left the bulls. Or a stretch 5. But not 4... at least not primarily.
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yeah its all too fluid to worry about. I think Lauri is so flexible too. I would say you just plan to put the right types of players around Lauri and Kessler rather than worrying about what position they are.

Around those two you will want some perimeter defenders, some creators, and shooters.
 
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